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Tazz writes...
Hi, Greg, I first wanna say that I think you did a wonderful job with Gargoyles. The plots were wonderful for the whole family--not just kids. It's an educational experience for sure! So thank you for bringing it to life and sharing it with all of us. And my question is this--I looked in the archives, but couldn't find where someone has asked this, so I really hope I looked hard enough, but I was wondering where I could view an the original drafts of Goliath--for example, you said that Mr. Guurr(sp?) had made the basis for Goliath's form. Is there any way to see it? I'm very curious how Goliath originally was drawn, and how he evolved into the person we see now. Thanks so much, Mr. Weismann, and I hope I haven't annoyed you. Thanks! Tazz.
Greg responds...
Not annoyed, but I don't have any of that old development art. Disney has it. Sorry. Maybe if you come to the Gathering in L.A., will try to give it all a holiday from the archives for a bit.
Chapter XXVIII: "Revelations"
Time to Ramble...
Fueled by (what I perceived in my own mind to be) the success of "City of Stone", I began to get more daring in my story structure. In Revelations, Cary and I utilized the time-honored tradition of "in medias res", where a story starts in the middle and catches the viewer up along the way. (Thanks, Homer.)
We also used voice over narration for the first time. It's interesting because Matt just seemed like a perfect character to do that kind of Philip Marlowe naration. But at the same time, it was daring, because of course, Matt is not a regular. The audience didn't know him that well. I think it showed the strength of our supporting cast that Matt could carry a show like this. Of course, having the massively talented Tom Wilson playing Matt helped. I knew he could handle it. And he did. Tom is terrific and VERY funny in the booth. I hope someday he gets his own tv show. (I also loved him as Coach Fredericks on Freaks & Geeks.)
The basic springboard for this episode came from four sources.
1. The notion that eventually Matt would have to find out about the Gargoyles. We didn't want to just throw it away or constantly come up with new excuses why he had "just missed them" or whatever.
2. Matt's pursuit of the Illuminati. What began as a Michael Reaves throwaway line in "The Edge" had evolved into its own subplot. Cary's "Silver Falcon" had taken us to the next level of hearsay. It was time to finally bring the Society into the series.
3. Disney's desire to do a cross-over event with their new "TOWER OF TERROR" ride down in Orlando. Unfortunately, they had wanted this much earlier -- in 1994. We had piggy-backed our World Premiere Screening of Gargoyles down in Florida in September of 1994 with the press event for the Tower's Grand Opening. (That's how Keith David, Marina Sirtis, Salli Richardson, Gary Krisel and I wound up riding the Tower of Terror together on the night before it opened to the general public.) But this was the soonest we could fit the notion into our continuity. You'll see in the memo that I just posted previous to this ramble, that when we were at the outline stage, I was still trying to more firmly tie the two properties together. Partway through the script process, someone at Disney changed their mind. They didn't want the tie-in anymore. I shrugged, I think. And the HOLLYWOOD TOWER became the HOTEL CABAL.
4. An episode of the British TV series, THE AVENGERS, called something like "The House That Jack Built". This was a classic that we ripped off shamelessly. (Wait, wait, I mean we paid it homage shamelessly.) It was about this nutty house designed, I believe, to trap spies inside and drive them bonkers and break them. Sound familiar? John Steed and Emma Peel redone as Goliath and Matt. Didn't you notice the resemblance?
(Gee, so far I've credited Raymond Chandler, Homer and THE AVENGERS as influences. What a fun episode.)
We reintroduced Hacker, mostly so that we could bookend him at the end as Matt's new Illuminati contact. This was something that Cary and I planned as far back as Silver Falcon. We always had to keep Hacker's agenda straight. Make sure any info he gave Matt was a wild goose chase, at least as far as Hacker knew.
In this episode, and only in this episode, Maria Chavez is played by the talented Elisa Gabrielli (also known as Obsidiana). Rachel Ticotin, our usual Chavez, was just unavailable. So Elisa filled in. She has a lighter sound. But I think it works. Did anyone notice? Both Elisa and Rachel are great. I used Elisa as the Doll Demon in 3x3 Eyes (now available on VHS and DVD).
My 3 year old son Ben, who at this point is used to me writing down what he and his older sister says during these viewings told me to write down the following: "When it's night, Demona's a gargoyle. When it's day, she's a human. He likes it when Demona's a human." This had absolutely nothing to do with this episode, but hey, who cares?
I really loved what Ed Asner did with the throwaway character of Jack Dane. "Tell him he's a bum." Dane was so much fun, I brought him back for TURF later.
CONTINUITY
Matt climbs into the clock tower and finds the TV he helped Elisa with on the day they met. That was fun. This whole episode ties back to Matt's Illuminati musings in "The Edge". It was nice to find another connection. Also, Elisa's been lying to him as long as they've known each other. Nice to remind the audience of that as well.
I like the "family of gorillas" line.
"The Dental Plan" line is vintage Cary Bates.
Elisa: "Matt, you haven't said three words all night..."
Matt: "Let me drive." HEY! THREE WORDS! :) This is fun because, I always thought of Elisa as someone who was such a control freak, she never let her partner drive her car. A big part of this episode, though it could easily sneak past you what with everything else going on, is revealing more facets of Elisa's personality. We learn much more about her and she grows here too.
It's fun to establish Xanatos as "a lower eschelon member". Immediately makes the Illuminati impressive, if Xanatos barely registers on their scale. Also sets up eventual conflicts with him.
First act cliffhanger: Here the threat is Matt. Again, how well did you all think you knew Matt? Here we're inside his point of view -- his narration. But we still try to play him edgy enough that we don't know if he'll kill them both. It helps that we opened with the shocker that he betrayed Goliath to Mace. How many people bought that? Thought Matt was the Judas that Mace said he was?
Anyway, I really like this scene. Elisa yelling at Matt. Matt getting out of the car and yelling at... no one. And Elisa's quiet revelation that Matt isn't crazy... "They don't follow me everywhere." Again, this line was as important for Elisa as for Matt. Sure she can count on the Gargoyles for help. But I never wanted it to seem like Lois and Superman. Like he was always around or would here her with super-senses everytime she screamed. Most of the time, Elisa's on her own.
"This time I'll drive."
Fun to see the gargoyles reactions when Matt is introduced. Goliath's not upset. He appreciates that Elisa has a loyal partner and probably gave her permission to bring Matt in from the cold long before. The truth is they know Matt already.
Elisa: "better late than never".
And then immediately Goliath is suspicious. "Trust is not... to be bartered."
As creators, we were playing both ends here. Omitting pieces of conversation. Trying to get the audience to believe that Matt might in fact be betraying G. But also making it believable that in hindsight, he wasn't. Not cheating, in other words.
At this point, my six year old daughter Erin said: "I don't like Bluestone in this one. He's usually very nice. But in this one he's mean." That's how she saw him. Not righteously angry with Elisa for the lies. Just mean.
It took remarkably more effort than I'd have expected to get things to hook up with our Teaser from the beginning of the act. To help, I reused a couple of Mace's line as prompts to the audience.
It's fun to hear Tom Wilson playing Matt playing at being a bad guy.
I like all the hotel references. "Check out time" etc.
Mace falls down the shaft and grabs the cables with his bare hands. One hundred years old or not, that's gotta hoit.
I like Matt using his coat as a parachute. That wouldn't be necessary except for that darn Gallileo. If it weren't for him, Goliath, being heavier, could have fallen faster than Matt to catch up to him. :)
And of course, I enjoy the irony of Mace being trapped in a Hell of his own making. And i like the notion that the Illuminati just left him there to rot. He had outlived his usefulness. A non-member had found him thanks to his annoying sentimental habit of visiting Pine Lawn. AND he had failed to hold the Gargoyle in the Cabal. Breaking a perfect record. Woops.
Goliath refers to Bluestone as his friend. That's to make sure the audience is clear that Goliath was in on the plan from the beginning. Later, I gathered, some people still didn't get that.
We have a great Turning to Stone sequence here. Every once in a while it's nice to remind the audience that this is unique and special. Seeing it through a new characrer's eyes is a great way to do that.
I love Elisa and Matt's conversation. Elisa reveals that she's subconsciously been keeping the gargs to herself because it made her feel special. Explains a lot about "Her Brother's Keeper", doesn't it? And Matt admits to something similar. I think we all do little things to help ourselves stand out, even if no one notices them but us.
Maria then helps us see that Matt and Elisa are going to be okay.
And finally, our Hacker tag. (This episode had like six tags.) Matt gets his pin. I thought that was kinda cool...
What say all of you....
Back to the pilot...
On July 6th, 1993, Writer Eric Luke turned in an outline for the pilot. It still had the Pack, and introduced the concept of the Gargoyle Eggs. Here were our notes on that outline, as we sent him to script.
To: Eric Luke Date: 7-15-93
From: Greg Weisman Ext.: (818)-754-7436
Subject: Notes on 7/6 Gargoyle Outline
Ta Da!! Let's go to script....with notes...sorry. Actually, we're real happy with the outline, we just want to send you forward with a few things in mind.
One general note comes from Gary, who's pretty much decided that the Gargoyles cannot fly like birds, but rather can glide like flying squirrels. We're going to take a lot of liberties with this. Play a lot with updrafts and downdrafts, i.e. cheat a lot, but the big basic no-no is the idea that they can start at ground level and just muscle themselves into the air with their wings. Gary doesn't want to just make this a rule, he wants to make use of it in the script as a vulnerability for the gargoyles. For example, if Goliath and Elisa are surrounded by the Pack, he can't just pick her up and fly away. He's trapped, unless he can get some height to get some air. Another thought comes earlier when Goliath saves Elisa's life at their first meeting. Maybe he grabs her in mid-air and then arcs up to re-land on the castle ramparts. And maybe he can't quite make it to the top and has to grab hold of the building and use his talons to claw his way back up to the landing, with her holding on to him for dear life. (These are just examples that occur to me...use, embellish, come up with your own as it fits the script.) Anyway, you get the idea.
PAGE 1
I think we can heighten the drama of the opening by referring to the original beat outline depicting Robby and his Mom desperately running up the hill to the castle w/the Marauders close behind. It's sunset. Cole and crew don't have long to wait for it to get too dark for the archers to target them.
PAGE 2
Re: the Wizard. The scariest thing about Goliath's looks is his tremendous threatening bulk, claws and teeth. His non-human appearance, wings and skin color play into the wizard's fears as well. But it's the potential physical threat that's the most frightening. I'm not sure that this will specifically come out in dialogue, but...
Teen 'goyles should probably be doing minor mischief until Robby's mother refers to them as monsters. This pisses them off (particularly Brooklyn) and they decide that if they're gonna be treated like Monsters they might as well act like monsters, and perhaps they do something that is flat-out malicious. Goliath comes in while they're "acting like monsters", doesn't know why and banishes them from the courtyard. They feel bigtime jipped.
Eggs in the rookery really intrigues us. It raises HUGE questions. Do Gargoyles lay eggs? What do they look like? Gary pictures rough spheres like cannonballs made of stone. Do the eggs survive Cole? I guess they must since Bronx and the trio do. Do they survive the centuries? What's the gestation period of a gargoyle egg? Did Demona gather up the eggs? Were they effected by the wizard's spell? When Xavier moves the castle to Manhattan, is the Rookery, eggs and all, left in tact in Scotland? None of these questions need to be answered in the pilot. It's just a great seed to plant for future episodes, so don't make too big a deal of it here; we want careful viewers to be curious, but most to be unconcerned, since they won't get the answers to these questions in this movie.
Was Broadway raised in the Rookery? Or has it been out of use for decades? If he was, we need to be careful that our trio aren't telling each other things that they all already know.
PAGE 3
Again, in the final battle against the Captain, Cole and his marauders, refer to the original beat outline for choreography. We need Cole and the Captain to drag the queen away from the battlefield, luring Goliath away too, alone. We need the Wizard left alone, believing the Queen is dead, w/only one remaining spellbook to confront the rest of the 'goyles and turn them to stone, etc.
PAGE 5
Perhaps when the Pack first attacks, Goliath and company jump to defend the castle without any request from Xavier. It's that instinctive. Afterwards, (p.6), Xavier asks for their continued protection, and Goliath agrees, largely because at this point, he's already got one foot in the water, so-to-speak.
PAGE 8
We still have the three night structure, but we've lost Elisa asking Goliath to give her three nights to show him all that her world has to offer. That always struck me as a nice moment. Was there a reason we took it out? I'm not saying we need it back in, I'm just curious.
PAGE 9
Adrienne Bello is our executive here in charge of Standards and Practices. We showed the final version of the outline to her, and she had a concern here regarding our depiction of latchkey kids. Basically, it's a weighty issue, and we really don't have the space to do it justice here. That gave me a thought. Another (easily-solved) problem in the scene is that Goliath doesn't seem to be a participant. No one reacts to him. If we change that, we can see a number of kids (maybe out on the stoop, early evening) reacting differently to him. All should be scared at first, but some are quickly reassured and think Goliath (and Bronx) are way cool. Littler kids might still be frightened, and Goliath sees Elisa comfort and reassure them. Teaching them not to be prejudiced, in essence. Or something. We don't have to make them latchkey kids. Taggers? Just neighborhood kids w/no crime involved? Maybe we create a 20th century counterpart to Robby? Anyway, give it some thought.
PAGE 10
This could play into the attack by the Pack. Perhaps our Robby-counterpart witnesses it. And the noise brings more people. They root for the Pack to win out over the "Monster" Goliath. They think the Pack is saving them. Our "Robby-counterpart" could really be confused as to who's good and who's bad. Maybe the crowd helps the Pack? (The right thing to do, as they perceive it, but unfortunately, they've picked the wrong side to help.) Elisa may try to flash her badge, and is knocked aside/out before she can identify herself as a cop. What Fox says to Goliath in the clinches, doesn't have to be heard by the crowd. Maybe the Pack even pretends to try to rescue Elisa from Goliath, making it clear to Goliath and our audience, though not the crowd, that if they get her away from him (and Bronx) she's doomed. [Again, though Bronx is largely a comic relief character, he can be helpful in a fight. Just as Goliath--though basically a dramatic character--has a sense of humor, and can be used in lighter, comic situations.] Goliath has little choice but to retreat with Elisa, with the crowd thinking he's the villain getting away w/a victim (or perhaps accomplice). Then he expresses his frustration that humans could so confuse the heroes and villains, based solely on appearances. If Elisa's conscious at this point, she might try to argue with him.
It's unclear why Goliath thinks the Pack is bent on revenge. What does he think they have to revenge? So far, they've been basically successful in both encounters. At worst, you could say they've fought to a draw.
PAGE 11
If Xavier spotted Demona in a book, it was probably an art book, not a history book. Gargoyles didn't make the history books. I know this is just a story Xavier tells Goliath, but we might as well make it as realistic as possible.
Also Demona does not "seem" to be "genuinely pleased" to see the gargoyles; she IS genuinely pleased to see them.
PAGE 12
Xavier should claim that the disks will benefit all mankind AND ALL GARGOYLES as well.
Xavier should make his contingency plans w/Owen. That way, we don't have to have him talking to himself, or reveal that he and Demona are in cahoots.
Goliath should probably find Elisa at her place, (maybe he followed her from the police station). As opposed to just happening to spot her on the streets.
Also want to make sure I have all the corporate names straight. XAVIER ENTERPRISES (XE) is Xavier's big conglomerate. SCARAB CORP. is the robotic and cybernetic arm of XE. PACK INC. is the "marketing firm" that handles the Pack, which is owned by a company, which up the ladder is eventually owned by XE. CYBERCORP is Xavier's basically honest competitor and the creators of the anti-grav technology that's on the disks.
PAGE 13
The idea of Goliath just sitting on the disks for a night in a warehouse still strikes us as artificial. Maybe Xavier asks Goliath to deliver the disks to someone, at the warehouse or wherever, and then arranges for Elisa to be there.
Angelica/Demona's statement about "If you'd only taken the others away..." isn't enough of a tip-off to make Goliath suspicious. It doesn't sound like she knows something, it sounds like she's using 20-20 hindsight to make him feel bad. At any rate, that would be the natural thing for him to think. Maybe it begins with this, but she takes it a step farther, and that tips Goliath off.
In her explanation of what went wrong, we need to include the notion that the Captain promised her he'd protect the gargoyles, but at the last minute she panicked and left.
We're also unclear how all this has led her to join up with Xavier. Maybe she sees the destruction of humanity in his evil, and she's anxious to help. Or maybe he plans on conquering humanity, and then she plans to take the reins of power from him. Lots of possibilities; we just need to clarify.
PAGE 14
Did Xavier send anyone besides Demona (and Elisa) to the "loyalty test". Maybe Owen has been watching from the shadows.
The reason Xavier didn't take Goliath out immediately after the loyalty test can probably be tied to Xavier's intelligence. He knows that the best time to attack the Gargoyle's is during the day, when they're frozen. I think we should make use of this. Have a scene where the Pack (carrying sledgehammers) searches for the Gargoyles in daylight. Elisa hides the gargoyles and/or protects them, and/or lures the Pack away from their location at great personal risk. Now she and Goliath have saved each other. A human he can count on. Etc. At this point, Xavier doesn't want to leave the loose ends untied for too long. He's confident in his new robot creations. (Perhaps there's one that's specifically been modeled after Goliath.) He decides to just get the battle over with. Or maybe it's Goliath and the gargoyles who decides to take the castle back, (with Elisa's help). They attack Xavier. Demona, the steel gargoyles AND the Pack (and Xavier, for that matter) are there to defend the castle. That's kinda ironic and cool.
And that's it. Give me a call if you have any questions. I'd also like to get an approximate target date when you think we'd have the first draft screenplay. Despite all the notes, we're getting really psyched. Good luck.
cc: Gary Krisel, Bruce Cranston, Paul Lacy
Bruno writes...
Hi, Greg,
Illuminati questions:
1-You once said that they regard Demona as a loose cannon. How they know her _so_ well?
2a-When Percival/Duval born?
2b-How old he looks?
2c-Is he _always_ at Castle Carbonek?
3-The Illuminati was created in 642. Arthur 'died' in 542. This mean something?
4-Are you pushing to make them the main villains of Gargs? They will be villains in near all the spin-offs. And in 2198, they literally _sold_ the mankind to the space-spawn.
5a-The 'Norman Ambassador' being a Illuminatus and the escort of Elena - coincidence?
5b-If _a_ is 'no', then _why_ should the Illuminati create trouble to Wyvern? You hinted this.
Greg responds...
1. Experience.
2a. I don't have an exact date for that at this time. Sixth Century, however.
2b. Not saying.
2c. Not saying.
3. Yes.
4. It depends what you mean by "main". I certainly want them to be ubiquitous. And I want them to have a bit more presence than they had in the first 65 episodes. But there a background force largely.
5a. I'm not sure what you mean. That's like asking if it's a coincidence that my first name is Greg and my last name is Weisman...
5b. Huh?
Ducks in a row...
Disney's Japanese Studio was collectively the true unsung heroes of the first season of Gargoyles. This is a memo from Mr. Tokunaga, who was the head of that studio. It mentions the Little Mermaid episode that they were currently animating, but is mostly about recommending certain individuals on their staff to be creative forces for the Gargoyles series.
CC: B. FERRO
L. HUME
FAX CONTROL
#ODU-2688
FACSIMILE(0422-51-8229)
DATE: July 10,1993
TO: Ms. Lenora Hume
FROM: Motoyoshi Tokunaga cc. Shin Matsumoto/Sheri Shimada
RE: Gargoyles
Dear Lenora,
Yesterday, I have asked several animators to try on rough designs for this projects characters. We will need one week to finish this work. Therefore. we will be able to tax you these drawings on 7/17. Also, we have sent you the followings together with Take-l's workprint for the Mermaid show #015.
1) Storyboards
*Gadget - storyboarded by Saburo Hashimoto.
*Reporter Blues - storyboarded by Kazuo Terada.
*Soccer Boy - storyboarded by Kazuo Terada.
As a reminder, in Japan we set the maximum number of cels that the show can spend before we start the production. And directors should draw storyboards within this limitation. Since these storyboards were drawn under these circumstances, I fear they might not give you the insight into the artists' creative aspects.
2) Videos
*Ulysis 31: This was produced 12 years ago and directed by Terada.
I hope you could use this as a reference of how he divided the scenes and
the camera angles. But, please do not refer to the animation.
*Batman; which was animation directed by Kazuyoshi Takeuohi.
We have sent this to you because we would like to know if you are thinking of any certain level of animation quality and timing. Please let us know if this is the kind of animation you expect from us for Gargoyles series.
Beat regards,
Motoyoshi Tokunaga
MT/my
Sapphire writes...
Gargoyles 2198
74: honorable
Greg responds...
nope
Sapphire writes...
Gargoyles 2198
519: mechanisms
Greg responds...
nope.
Tom writes...
Why in genisis undone wasn't Elisa there?
I mean surely Delilah would have needed some of her D.N.A. to stay alive. Or wasn't she there because she hasn't met Delilah yet and you were trying to keep it to a one episode show?
Greg responds...
I had nothing to do with that episode of Goliath Chronicles. I have no idea.
Todd Jensen writes...
A little thought I've had for some time, inspired by the occasional protests from this "Gargoyles" fan or that who wanted to see Angela pair up with Brooklyn rather than with Broadway. I've never had any problem with Angela choosing Broadway, and actually think that it works very nicely (not to mention that I don't think that Brooklyn would really have been all that happy with Angela - for one thing, there's the way that he feels about her mother). But there is one thing about this business that has amused me.
Although I've seen a number of protests about Brooklyn not becoming Angela's mate, I haven't seen one case of a "Gargoyles" fan, to date, who wanted Lexington to become Angela's mate. Looks as though Lex doesn't have that much of a fan club :)
Greg responds...
Don't tell that to Lexy! Or Thom Adcox for that matter!
Aris Katsaris writes...
Justin> You seem to think that "fat" and "obese" are one and the same. They are *not*. Trust me on this, Broadway isn't obese, not by any definition of the word...
Greg responds...
Thank you.
Jim R. writes...
Greg,
Not to be rude, but I read some of your rambles about stuff. What are they SUPPOSED to MEAN?! I can't make heads or tails as to what you're talking about or where you're going with these alternative outcomes...Whatever you're rambling about, trust me, you're beginning to make me think of parallel outcomes for everything I saw in Gargoyles which is MORE like something I'd watch on Star Trek. Now, don't scare me. (And you said you tried to avoid such unstrict storylines which Star Trek producers are famous for.)
Greg responds...
Huh?
I don't know what you are talking about.
Are you talking about my rambles on individual episodes?
Can you give me an example? What alternative outcomes?
Honestly, this post stumps me.
Aris Katsaris writes...
3. The similarities between Xanatos and Sisyphus: a Theseus/Gawain-Rory/Cuchullain situation, a descendant (Xanatos comes from Greece after all), or simply the coincidental repetition of an archetype?
(I don't think the above are story ideas, but I'll understand if Todd decides to cut them away...)
Greg responds...
I did think of Xanatos as an archetypal character -- a human trickster (as opposed to a Trickster-God like Anansi or Loki). As noted in the previous post, my lack of casual familiarity with the Sis-Myth prevented him from being a specific influence. But Odysseus was in my head. "Xavier" was designed to look like the classic hero of myth. (In contrast to the monstrous 'goyles.) When I changed the name, the Greek association brought Odysseus to mind.
Odysseus is a tricky fellow, who'll use nearly any means to justify his end. He's pragmatic but also curious. (See how he deals with the Sirens.) Immortality appeals to him. But family is ultimately more important. He's also smart as hell. Handsome, strong. A fierce warrior who uses force as a last resort. Sounds fairly Xanatosian to me. What do you think?
Jon writes...
Favorite smart-ass remark:
Faieq writes...
In the Gargoyles Universe, how much truth is there in fortune cookies?
Greg responds...
All cookies are true. Especially Peanut Butter cookies.
(Personally, I've known a few disingenuous peanut butter cookies in my time, so I'm not sure I can back you on this one, Greg)
Good luck regaining your edge!
Greg responds...
Yeah, a few of you have picked that. It's one of my favorites too.
Siren writes...
Seeing as you had a little cryptzoology in your show, such as Nessie. Did you consider other cryptids like Mokele-mbembe (Brachiasaurs in Africa), Bigfoot, Big Cats of United Kingdom, Chupacabras, etc.
Greg responds...
All things are true...
Sapphire writes...
The majority of the world's people believe in a creator, from the Semetic peoples of the middle east to the indigious
peoples of the Americas. I was wondering in the gargoyles universe is the god that the Jews, Christians, and Muslims worship a fay or is he truely the god of the universe?
Greg responds...
God. The one true God of the Universe is not, in my mind, a fey. On the other hand, I'm not sure I'm going to equate him with the God of Abrahamic trio of religions either. I'm looking for something bigger still. Something that includes but is not limited by those faiths.
Just my opinion, mind you.
Aris Katsaris writes...
Next ramble - Xanatos and Gilgamesh:
As I said my first thought was Gilgamesh, since he also had the wish to find immortality - yet above all because Gilgamesh is the mythological hero whose mortality is an integral part of him: the same thing that you said about Xanatos... Both have had dealings with immortals, yet both are hopelessly mortal...
Other than that, admittedly they don't seem to have any other point of similarity... Perhaps (though a bit far-fetched) that Gilgamesh also starts like a bit of a villain until he discovers friendship. But comparisons between Enkidu and Goliath seem even more farfetched and I decided to stop that train of thought.
The Gilgamesh story is among my very favourite ones... And I love characters such as Utnapishtim (the survivor of the Great Flood - the gods turned him and his wife immortal). In fact I find Utnapishtim's version of the story far more fascinating than that of Noah or Deucalion - two stories which for me are so sketchy as to be really *dull*.
Anyway...
1. Do you have any plans about Gilgamesh or Utnapishtim which are more specific than "Eventually everything?"
2. Since Utnapishtim was turned immortal - do you think he's still around? :-)
Greg responds...
Sure Noah wound up a boring drunk. And Deucalion was a bit of a stiff. But wouldn't you like to see Utnapishtim, Noah and Deucalion all sitting at one of these new post-Flood coffee houses, having a beer together, reminiscing about old times? How singers could really sing pre-Flood and how the smell nearly killed them on those damn arcs?
1. Gilgamesh, Enkidu and Utnapishtim (as well as Noah and Deucalion) all figured into my plans. Vaguely. That is, I have a few ideas for all of these characters. But they have not as yet fully coalesced in the old (and getting older) brain. But I will say that Jeff Robbins is involved with my Gilgamesh notions. (FYI - I never really made a Gil-Xanatos connection.)
2. Duh. :)
Mel. Celestial writes...
Since you don't have the characters' specific age with you now, care to arrange them according from Hudson(he's the oldest, no?)to baby Alex? A-Z? Thanks!
Greg responds...
I'm at MY office today, so I do have some access. My timeline isn't yet fully REWORKED, so all of the following is tentative. But as of 12-31-95, here are the ages of many of our cast:
King Arthur 1510 (57).
Hudson 1117 (59).
Demona 1057 (35).
Goliath 1057 (29).
Coldstone 1057 (28).
Trio 1037 (19).
Magus dead at 1029 (71)
Katharine 1019 (61).
Bronx 1017 (9).
Tom 1009 (54).
Macbeth 990 (52).
Ang, Gab, Oph, Boud 917 (19).
Fiona 107.
Mace Malone dead at 100.
Leo, Una, Kai 97 (49).
Dominic 93.
Zaf, Obsid 77 (39).
Dane 76.
Jade, Turq, Yama 57 (29).
Peter 53.
Diane 49.
Xanatos 40.
Sora 37 (19).
Jason, Matt 31.
Fox, Robyn 29.
Elisa 27.
Talon, Dracon 25.
Jon 23.
Beth 20.
Thailog 1 (29).
Note, the numbers in parentheses represent biological age when it differs from their actual chronological age.
Alex was not yet born at that time. My current thinking pegs his birthdate as 7-9-96, a Tuesday.
Corrine Blaquen writes...
What language is the Grimorum written in? I imagine the spells are in Latin, but what language did the Magus use to recount the story of the gargoyles?
Greg responds...
Most (but not all) of the Grimorum is in Latin. The Magus used Latin as well, which was in those days the language of scholars.
Jim R. writes...
matt,
I thought the skiff was blown up at first, but i remembered that only happened in the "Future Tense" episode, which I suppose wasn't real to Goliath. But no one could accidently go to Avalon, because one would first have to recite the Latin to reach it. I got you on this one buddy. :)
Greg responds...
Yup.
Entity writes...
Hi Greg,
Thanks for giving my comments about AWAKENING (the portrayel of the Trio and the cut prologue) a fair explanation. (I'm glad to hear that you would've preferred the prologue, too -- maybe I just wanted to know it wasn't cut for quality reasons.)
I understand the usage of the Next Time and Last Time segments better now, too. Though I have to ask: Is the quantity of bad animation you got back on GARGOYLES typical of an animated show?
Greg responds...
No. Actually, on the whole, I'd say Gargoyles got much BETTER animation than the average tv show. For starters, many of our episodes were done by Walt Disney TV Animation Japan. Those guys kicked ass.
And we also did very well by our Korean sub-contractors. Not every time. But often enough that I don't want to complain. Well, to be honest, there were always things to complain about. From every studio. That's the nature of tv production. But we got pretty lucky over all.
matt writes...
in "The Gathering" when Goliath and co. arrived in New York what happened to the Avalon Skiff? did it sink as Arthur's skiff had done in London? if the just left the skiff in the lake or river could anyone have gotten in it and accidently gone to Avalon?
Greg responds...
It sank. But even if it hadn't, you need to know the incantation to get to Avalon.
Durax writes...
City of Stone scenelet>> When Gil crushed the rose, I thought this was to tel the audience that, the scars on his face did more than damage his looks. I thought he had lost his sense of smell too. In my mind this provided even greater cause for him to grow more and more embittered against Demona. I don't think this is what you were intending though, not anymore.
Greg responds...
Hmmm. Interesting. Maybe I wasn't intending it. But maybe it's still true. Hmmm.
matt writes...
you've said numerous times that Bronx mated and will mate again with Boidekka, but since Bronx was born a generation after the trio wouldn't he be way to young to mate? if the fertility cycle is different for beasts than can they mate and concieve more often in life than the standard gargoyles? i understand that Boidekka, being older than Bronx, is probably able to concieve, but Bronx just seems too young. does it matter that he is male, as in males can mate and concieve earlier in life than females?
Greg responds...
Again, it depends how you're defining "mated". Do you mean "take a mate"? Do you mean "produce offspring"? Do you mean "have intercourse"?
Boudicca is older than Bronx. But Beasts mature faster than Gargoyles. The cycle is the same, but the maturity rate is different. Bronx is an adult and has been for years.
matt writes...
i have a question about when a gargoyle wakes up. in many times throughout the series we would see the gargs' eyes glow shortly before they would shed their stone skin and that makes sense to me because you've said that at sunset their entire body reverts to flesh except a thin layer over their skin, their eyes probably don't have this layer since that would probably be kinda painful to have stone flying out of your eyes. so we see the eyes first because it doesn't have to break out of a stone shell. am i at least roughly correct on this?
Greg responds...
Roughly, but no, not really. There is a thin membrane of "organic-stone" over the eyes as well. The glow sometimes shines through the membrane. Or if the eyes were closed, they blink open first, and tiny bits of stone fall away to reveal the glow. Or something like that.
Justin writes...
Greg,
A few weeks ago Anonymous writes
<Are there any female gargoyles who are obese? How about muscular or extremely skinny? Are any females bow-legged?
Are there gargoyles with differnent wing and ear types than the types that were shown on the series?
You know how some gargoyles have a sharp elbow or knee spike that juts out, I was wondering if any gargoyles have them on both knees and elbows because it was always on or the other.>
To which you replied...
<Obese? Not likely, but possible, I guess.
Look, it's all sounding possible.>
Now why is not likely for a gargoyle woman to be obese? Must all of them be fairly skinny like Demona? I don't know man, it seems like a sexist notion of what the female form is supposed to be! Sorry if offends you but with the gargoyles anatomy being similar on the surface, this might boys the neanderthal idea of what female beauty is supposed to be, and girls an impossible standard to live up to. Now don't get me wrong I love the show. Another thing that yerked me. You have mentioned that the original Broadway was going to be a girl. But you changed your minds out of fear of feminist groups being concerned about the evil/fat issue among the two female characters.
Now I would think that feminist groups with all sorts of "agendas" as you put it would love to see a none picture perfect woman in the series. Trust me having the two main female gargoyles in the series model thing didn't exactly endear the show to them I'm sure ;)
Sorry if this sounds like a rant. I just wanted your honest thought on what I've said.
Thank you
Greg responds...
I didn't mean to say that garg FEMALES aren't likely to be obese. I was trying to say that gargs as a whole aren't likely to be obese. Broadway and Hudson may be overweight, but neither are obese. I said it was possible, and I meant it, but given the lifestyle that most gargs have, obesity isn't likely.
Sorry for the confusion.
Mel. Celestial writes...
Fox and her son has Faeye blood in them; so does that mean that they are able to age slower or become immortal?
Greg responds...
Either are theoretically possible, though it does depend on how one define's immortality.
Aris Katsaris writes...
More of a ramble (or two) than a question but here goes:
I believe that someone here in Ask Greg compared Xanatos to Prospero- both having magical assistants... Anyway I was thinking around the same lines, trying to compare Xanatos with characters from mythology:
My first thought was Gilgamesh (I'll ramble about him next) but then I thought an even better match: namely Sisyphus. And, god, this guy seems the most Xanatosian character I know (I even imagine him played by Frakes). He's *very* intelligent (him and Ulysses are pretty much the two clever men of Greek mythology); something of a trickster; he's considered to be something of a villain; and finally in certain stories he has even tried to find a way to defeat death. Two times in fact. One of them involved binding Thanatos (or Hades - not sure which) pretty similar to what the Emir did in 'Grief'...
So questions:
1. Any thoughts on the above? :-)
2. Sisyphus was punished pretty severely for what was seen as villainy (namely his trying to cheat death and angering Zeus in general)... Other than the brief (though admittedly great) scare that Oberon gave to Xanatos, do you think that Xanatos will get a comeuppance for his crimes? He's done worse than Sisyphus I think...
3. There's a third question but I'll post it serarately in case Todd thinks it a story idea...
Greg responds...
1. Interesting. I can't claim to have been thinking along those lines specifically. Though Odysseus did come to mind, more than once. I guess, I'm just not quite as familiar with Sisyphus' legends...
2. Of course the thing I remember most about Sis is the final punishment. The Sisyphusian task of pushing that boulder up the hill. Xanatos will, on occasion, continue to get his comeuppance. But I can't picture him standing for that kind of punishment -- even in Hell.
One writes...
1) Most of the fae in their "natural" (so we believe) forms have pointy ears, is there any particular reason for this? Bean Sidhe, Titania, Puck (especially Puck), the Weird Sisters, Oberon, Raven, Grandmother.
2) If a fae created a wall of stone (or any other dense material) to block a cold iron spear being thrown at them, what would happen to the wall? It's said the fae magick cannot resist cold iron but what of things created from fae magick? Say Puck created a golem would that golem be very vulnerable to cold iron?
3) How do you think Oberon would react if Titania was to be killed, hypothetically?
Greg responds...
1. Maybe it comes naturally. Who told you to have round ears?
2. It all depends on method and execution.
3. How do YOU think, hypothetically? Geez.
One writes...
1) Is there any particular reason why Grandmother chooses to look like an aged native american woman and possess the mannerisms thereof? Most fae we've seen in the series perfer a youthful or mature adult form, usually not children or the elderly. Puck, Oberon, Titania, the Wyrd Sisters, Bean Sidhe, etc.
2) Who are among the eldest of the Fae race? Oberon? Titania? Mab?
3) Is Cold Iron the only way to kill a fae, if not, what other ways are there?
Greg responds...
1. The Weird Sisters took many forms. Some very young, some very old. Grandmother is comfortable in that form. (And also as Thunderbird or the Sea Monster.) Why shouldn't she be?
2. Mab certainly.
3. If I told you, Oberon would have to kill you.
Corrine Blaquen writes...
What nationality is Titania's human form supposed to be?
I find it very cool that you have so much ethinic/racial diversity in the human cast, from Elisa's Native American/African background to Xanatos's half Greek. It's such a fresh change from other cartoon characters with no heritage at all.
I myself am French-American, and I LOVE it that Fox, one of my favorite characters, is half French-American. Thanks, Greg!
Greg responds...
Xanatos isn't half-Greek. He's 100% Greek-American. I also like mixing up the ethnic backgrounds of our characters.
As for Anastasia, however, you need to remember that the identity was a fiction. Her first name suggests a Russian background, but her voice suggests that she's lived in the U.S. all her life. And we don't know her maiden name. So I don't really know how to answer this question.
Basilisk writes...
A note to Greg:
'Horae' is the plural of the Greek word 'hora' or fairy/goddess of a season. To the Greeks, there were only three seasons, spring, summer, and winter. So I can see why that person might have thought that the Weird Sisters could be the horae.
Greg responds...
Hmmm...
Then I tend to think NO. Because at some point we pull in a fourth season at a minimum. And there's no fourth sister. (Living in SoCal, I've always felt that there are five very subtle seasons here.)
Oberon writes...
The horae were the three female guardians of olympus in greek mythology, I thought they might be the weird sisters because the weird sisters guarded Avalon. So were the Weird Sisters the Horae
Greg responds...
So the Horae aren't the "Hours"?
Tentatively, I'll answer yes. But I really have to do more research first.
matt writes...
among the British gargs would a female gargoyle that has the lion genes still have the mane that Leo has? i would think she would because Leo is not a lion and while he looks like one probably shares very few of the same characteristics of a lion.
i've also noticed that Maggie the Cat has lion genes and is the only mutate with hair and i assume this is because of the animal she was mutated from but of course Leo wasn't created from a lion...
Greg responds...
There is a chameleonesque characteristic (metaphorically) to the various superficial gargoyle differences that seem so pronounced. That might suggest a female of Leo's type might look lioness-esque as opposed to Lion-esque. But it might not. I hate to tie my hand frankly, or rather I hate to tie the artists hands in advance.
matt writes...
Faieq, Goliath said, "I grow tired of this, take whats left of your men and begone!" i think he meant he was tired of that particular battle and i doubt there had been previous encounters with Hakon.
Greg responds...
Yeah. That sounds more like it.
Thanks, matt.
Faieq writes...
In Awakening Part one, the Vikings or at least Hakon, are convinced that the gargoyles are just stone statues. This suggests that this is the first time Hakon has attacked Castle Wyvern. But when Goliath awakens he says something like, "I grow tired of these attacks." That means that the attack was only a middle of a series of attacks by the Vikings. Was the battle at the beggining of Awakening part one, the vikings first battle with Castle Wyvern. Or had another party of Vikings been attacking Wyvern and had moved on, leaving Hakon's army in charge of that area.
Greg responds...
Well, Hakon had never been there before. But you're quoting something that Goliath said in the MIDDLE of the battle. So he may have been talking about the fact that Hakon's crowd was still fighting. Or he may have been refering to the fact that Wyvern's isolated location often made them targets of attack. From other Vikings, etc.
michael regan writes...
Dear Greg
can you answer this,cause their is no scientific way about it(maybe magic,anyway)
a gargoyles flesh and bone turns to stone in the day,but how is it their clothing does as well?
Greg responds...
The clothes thing is magic. Part of a modesty spell cast in the year 10 A.D.
Cherubique writes...
Okay, maybe you won't reveal Lex's mate, but will you tell us if he has any childrens>?
Greg responds...
Sure, all the eggs of certain generations would be children to every member of the Clan including Lex.
QUIT THINKING LIKE A HUMAN!
Spore-chan writes...
Ok, I've got a question on gargoyle suicide, and I can't find the answer in the archives, but feel free to give me a smart-ass response if I have missed it. Let's say a gargoyle slshes their wrists, and does not bleed to death before sunrise. Would the fact that they do not want to be healed have any effect on the sun healing them? And how would a clan regard suicide anyways? As a crime? A cry for help? Something else?
Greg responds...
I don't feel right about being a smart-ass when the topic is suicide.
A simple cut on the wrist would heel over the course of a day. Mindset might effect a more devastating injury. Of course the scary thing is how easy it is for a less-than-devastating injury to have devastating results.
I think garg suicide is fairly rare. Gargoyles are a primal race in many ways, and the will to live is VERY PRIMAL. But I suppose it's not unheard of. Most gargs would regard it as a MASSIVE cry for help. And they would certainly attempt to prevent their clanmate from taking his or her own life.
Sapphire writes...
In the proposed spin off series The new Olympians you said something about David Xanatos trying to take advantage of the New Olympians. Can you give some details on how he might take advantage of them?
Greg responds...
It's complicated.
Yttrium writes...
Taurus said his ancestor was the Minotaur. Assuming that this Minotaur was the same one of the Labyrinth that Theseus slew, this is kind of odd to me. If the Minotaur has descendants, he must have had children. Who would the mother of these children be, and how would he have come in contact with this female?
---Ytt
Greg responds...
Not like the guy spent his entire life in the Labyrinth. Just the last few years.
Mel. Celestial writes...
HI! Hope that you're not bored with me yet! Now on to the questions...
~ Since the clone Delilah is actually a cross between Demona and Elisa, is it possible that she could give birth or, like, break out of the stone-by-day spell?
Greg responds...
Anything's possible, if you're going to put it that way. But largely, Delilah's genetic structure was taken from Demona. Only cosmetic elements were borrowed from Elisa. Of course Delilah does have some human DNA. But she's about 90% gargoyle.
Delilah is certainly capable of having a baby. So's Demona and Elisa. Doesn't mean any of them will.
And Delilah does turn to stone during the day.
Tom writes...
Where oh where is this story on the web about Delilah and Goliath going out?
I've looked everywhere and can't find it.
Please help.
Greg responds...
I haven't written it. I've just talked about it on occasion. Here and at various Gatherings over the years.
Being SANTA CLAUS is stressful.
I think these two memos are fairly self-explanatory. So the only comment I'll make is that although few of these people still work for Disney, none of them had to give back their toys. (And I still have the Nerf stuff.)
MEMO #1:
[1] From: Greg Weisman 7/8/93 4:10PM (751 bytes: 10 ln)
To: Bruce Cranston
cc: Greg Weisman
Subject: TOYS FROM KENNAR
------------------------------- Message Contents -------------------------------
Bruce,
As you know, I received a large box of toys from Kennar, which I am officially giving to the Development department. Some of these will be on display in their original packaging in my office, per Gary Krisel's suggestion. Some will be used in creative meetings to help generate ideas and reduce tension. The rest will be distributed among the development staff for research and display, on the understanding that they belong to the company and not to the individuals involved.
MEMO #2:
[1] From: Greg Weisman 7/9/93 2:25PM (2200 bytes: 47 ln)
To: Mary Nguyen, Bonnie Buckner, Hali Helfgott, Lisa Melbye, Adrienne Bello, Paul Lacy, Fred Schaefer, Kathy Fair, BAMBI MOE, Ellen Gurney, Ann Catrina, Brad Vielock
cc: Bruce Cranston, Melinda Farrell, Jay Fukuto, Greg Weisman
Subject: TOYS
------------------------------- Message Contents ------------------------------
cc: Dave Schwartz, Sharon Morrill
As many of you know, Kennar sent me a large box of toys. Too large for me to keep them as a gift w/out a conflict of interest arising. So I am officially giving these toys to the company. Gary instructed me to keep some of them unopened on display in my office, (he's sent some to Lucasfilms already, and we may need them for similar purposes at some point), and to break open the Nerf stuff for creative meetings (you know, to relieve tension, etc.). But there are still a number of toys left, more than I have room for, so I'm going to pass them out to all of you for research and display in your offices, on the official understanding that they belong to Disney and should stay with the company.
I put everyone's name in a hat and Hali pulled the names, and this's the order of toy picking:
Bambi
Brad
Ellen
Dave
Lisa
Fred
Paul
Kat
Ann
Adrienne
Hali
Bonnie
Mary
I think you can see by Hali's placement on the list that her picks were not biased. It was totally random. Don't blame her.
And if you're low on the list, you can at least take consolation in knowing that the bigshots (Bruce, Mindy, Jay and Sharon) don't get any toys at all. Sorry. There weren't enough to go around.
Bambi's first on the list, and she'll be back Monday, so that's when distribution will begin.
Remember, no friction. This is a small good thing. That's all.
Jim R. writes...
Would you ever consider attempting a "live chat"? You know, where WE THE PEOPLE get to talk to you in "REAL TIME". (I had to explain REAL TIME to matt, so I guess if you don't understand what I'm trying to say: Think of Yahoo! Chat or AOL Instant Messenger, etc. In other words a BBS that "moves" while you and us talk at the exact same time!) That would be cool, huh? But I guess we would consume you with our questions, and that would leave you utterly helpless to answer them all, right? And I'm guessing that you're thinking "Hence the point of a BBS." Oh well...
Greg responds...
I don't know what Yahoo!Chat or AOL Instant Messenger or BBS is, but I've done multiple real time chats in the past. Many of them next door in the station eight chat room.
The next one I'm doing is for the Gargoyles On-Line Fan Reunion II in April.
Their website isn't quite up and running yet, but you might want to bookmark the following:
http://www.firefox.org/reunion/
I'm told it'll be up any day now.
The Mighty Thor writes...
Contest
74: prestieg
517: distroyed
519: containers
Greg responds...
nope
(And by the way, spelling counts.)
Anne writes...
I am currently undertaking restoration work on an internal wall afresco which depicts an animal with the body of a horse and the tail of a lion. The head is missing. Could you direct me to something on the internet concerning mythological animals at all. The building is a historical home (castle) which dates back to 1529 in Tuscany Italy.
many thanks
Greg responds...
Whoah. No, I'm sorry. I'm amazingly incompetent with regard to most internet stuff. And that's way outside the perview of this site.
Good luck though.
Todd Jensen writes...
My "City of Stone Part Four" ramble.
I hadn't noticed the bit about Bronx responding to Demona's tone of voice, but I think that it is a good point. I know from personal experience that dogs do the same thing in real life. My mother used to sometimes, for a joke, when she was telling off our dog for doing something naughty, add, still in a condemning tone of voice "You're the most beautiful dog in the world", etc., and note the way that he'd hang his head and look guilty at that.
The Chorus music in the battle scenes in 1057 reminded me a lot of the music in the battle scenes in "Excalibur". (Kind of appropriate, actually, given Macbeth's affinity to Arthurian matters in "Gargoyles").
Good analysis on Macbeth's secret council, and I certainly don't think myself that he would have agreed to betray the gargoyles. (And I don't think, for that matter, that it would have worked even if he had; given the fact that the English still attack Castle Moray even after the gargoyles' desertion, and continue to support Canmore against Luach even after the destruction of Demona's clan, I certainly suspect that Bodhe was inaccurate in his assumption that they had only invaded Scotland to destroy the gargoyles. Historically speaking, of course, they had a number of non-gargoyle reasons - such as the fact that their real-life leader, Earl Siward of Northumbria, was one of Canmore's relatives - but that's another story).
One thing that strikes me about the bit where Canmore "slays" Macbeth is that it brings across the fact that he was something of a rotter. Instead of slaying Macbeth in fair fight, he waits for him to get into an argument with Demona and then stabs him in the back. Not much honor there. At least his Hunter descendants were a bit of an improvement over him and his father (except for the point when Jon Canmore becomes Castaway and afterwards).
I also find Macbeth and Gruoch's final parting a moving moment. One thing that I've got to say about Gruoch in "City of Stone" - it's hard to believe that she's the historical original of one of the most infamous villainesses in all of literature. Shakespeare may have maligned her even worse than she maligned Macbeth (as I said before in my "Long Way Till Morning" ramble, Demona fits the Lady Macbeth role far better than Gruoch ever did).
Back to the present: the big confrontation at the end still moves me, including the Weird Sisters' lines (even after we learn that they don't really practice what they preach). I can't help but wonder what the impact on Demona must have been when she discovered that the fact that killing her would mean his own death was no longer much of a deterrent to Macbeth - was, in fact, more of an incentive. And I agree that "Death is never the answer. Life is." is a great Goliath line. And Demona's "The access code is 'alone'" is a very moving moment; at least, it was for me.
Thanks for the ramble.
Greg responds...
Thank you.
The Mighty Thor writes...
Lawrence Stone writes...
How do gargoyles view Homosexuality?
Greg responds...
On cable, like the rest of us.
This has got to be the best on in the arcive, mostly because you play it out so litteraly like with the "cauldran of life" It just really get's me how a question/magic spell can sound so good and start an intelegent conversation and then take any meaning or insight and compleatly nuke it.
Greg responds...
I think I see what you mean. Maybe.
Zombie White writes...
SMART ASS STUFF...
you wanted to know those we loved... I liked the Bunji-jumping new olipians and the fea that evolved from books... I like the sens in the non-sens..
by the way, some people asked "what came first, the egg or the gargoyle"... come on, we all know it's the egg... if gargoyles are part of the evolution then they came from dinosaurs that layed eggs :P
then again, dinosaurs came from unicellulars that didn't O.o
who's the smart-ass now !?
Greg responds...
Uh, the egg? Or have we moved on to another topic?
Jim R. writes...
I agree with Chris Maune's post. Gargoyles on the Cartoon Network would be a great thing! It would give a chance for some healthy "American animation" to replace some of that mindless Japanese anime that is polluting the minds of our younger generations in the Toonami block. Kids these days just don't know good cartoons when they see them...
Greg responds...
If you say so.
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