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RETORTS 2004-01 (Jan)
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Noorie writes...
What channel is toon disney?!?! my friend told me it's either 78 or 39 or something like that! is it?! ahh! o i wanna know! ;(
Greg responds...
Check your local listings. Newspaper. TV GUIDE. Whatever?
You're not even telling me WHERE you live, even assuming I was inclined to do that research for you, which I'm not.
But I guess the fact that you've been waiting (yeah, right) nearly two years for an answer as to how to tune your tv is punishment enough.
What do you think, guys? Too sarcastic?
Blaise writes...
UPGRADE
Ah, yes. The one where Brooklyn officially becomes Second-in-Command and the Pack become (for lack of a better term) bona-fide supervillains.
First off, I'll say that all the animation errors you mentioned, Greg, were eventually corrected--on my tape Fox's lips do move, and Goliath follows in pursuit of the Coyote head (I don't know about the Dingo hitting his head twice thing; never noticed that...or the glitch with the head/full-robot so that reveal still worked for me).
Anyway, when the Pack robs the bank, I kind of felt it was sort of "pathetic" for them as well, and I somehow KNEW Dingo would comment on it in that way. Actually, Dingo always seemed to be a bit distanced from the rest in one way or another. I mean, in his first appearance he didn't leave too much of an impression on me (I couldn't even remember his name), but then he's revealed to have fled to Europe while Jackal and Hyena stayed behind. Then, in LEADER OF THE PACK, he's Coyote's accomplice from the beginning, and the only one besides the robot to take down a gargoyle during the fight at the studio. Here, even in the first Act, Dingo is the one most disgusted with the Pack's current status, the one who figures out how to turn the tide in the beginning battle (which I'll get to in a bit), and, as Hyena points out, the only one to get away with any money. So even before the titular upgrade, Dingo kind of seemed the odd-man out of the group.
The Pack's battle with the gargoyles is interesting to me mostly because of how thoroughly Broadway trashes Jackal. I mean, he claws him across the chest, and then after recovering from a weapon blast, jumps on Jackal, pounds him a few times, and hurls him against the hull of the Pack Attack vehicle. Neat (in a brutal sort of way).
Well, the Pack gets away and a wounded Goliath is taken back to the Clocktower. Here comes the "it's time to choose a second in command" scene. I just knew that Goliath would try to make Hudson that ('cause that just seems like Goliath), but that eventually it would come down to the Trio.
Now, I had read that original comic in the Disney Adventures magazine that came out back in October of 1994, and it literally referred to Brooklyn as Goliath's Second in Command. So I pretty much knew who'd end up getting the job. However, I hadn't paid much attention to Brooklyn's "displays of leadership" before this episode. He really was the de facto leader of the Trio, and this episode does show his leadership capabilities in handling situations.
Back with the Pack...and Coyote. I just loved its nonchalant (sp?), "May I come in?" A robot with style--definite Xanatos style.
One note, despite the difference in appearance I kind of figured that the mutate shown in Coyote's pitch was Talon. I guess he must have gone back to Xanatos by this time.
I never realized before that Owen was absent from this episode. Having read your memo to Gilad, I now understand why that was--as cool as the guy is, he would have been a bit superfluous.
A month passes (which surprised me--the first major jump of time *within* an acutal episode), and while the Trio are away, Goliath and the rest meet up with the new and improved Pack. I was not really expecting what showed up, even with the robot's pitch. Dingo's initial appearance was a surprise, followed by Jackal, who inspired a sort-of "should have known" feeling when he revealed himself as a cyborg. Then Hyena gave me the creeps with her jumping and cackling, and finally Wolf in all his beastiality showed up and pretty much capped off the whole thing. A lot of fun touches here, the line about the Archmage, Hudson's referring to Wolf as a "forest demon," and Jackal's arm revealing a life of its own.
Dingo distinguishes himself even further with his disdain and horror at his comrades (maybe it's because he was the only one with dignity or humanity left, but I really jived with Dingo in this ep).
Coyote appears, bigger and badder than before, and Hyena starts up her infatuation with him again. It is "sicker than usual" as Jackal says, but also a lot of fun.
When the Trio reconnoiter (sp?) at the Clocktower, it always surprised me that Broadway stopped the most crime that night (and he of course follows it up with his modest "Just gotta know where to look"). I don't know why--maybe I'm a closet size-ist (or my "Brooklyn-fan" mind-set was kicking in).
Wolf still has it out for Goliath. This is a very interesting aspect of his character the more that I think about it. More than any other gargoyle, Wolf has singled out the big "alpha male," if you will. I just find it fascinating right now.
Returning to the Trio, we have a (for me at least) fun scene with Broadway zinging Lex's musing, and Fox's fun commercial. I just love the way Laura San Giacomo read that--just as I love Jeff Bennett's "She's talking to us."
It was at about this point that I FINALLY picked up on the "game" X&F were playing. Again, style for the both of them. And even though I noticed the recycling of "the edge" line, it still worked for me. "The edge" seems like something in which Xanatos places great interest.
Brooklyn displays his leadership qualities by his cool-headedness and capable planning (and you just knew Lex was going to try to fly in there right of the bat--hey, it's the Pack!). It didn't hit me until later viewings just how well Brooklyn planned that--divide the enemy's forces, impair their primary sense (vision), and free trapped comrades during the confusion.
The battle itself had some memorable occurances. As strange as Jackal's arm was, Hyena beats him (and the rest of the Pack) in the "unnerving" catagory with the way her fingers bend backward, her leg rotates completely, and her limbs become insectian (is there such a word?--who cares now?). Dingo impresses me yet again by how STRONG his head is. He crashes through the roof without a helmet and is just momentarily stunned.
I actually got that Wolf's features became more feral when he got into a "battle rage" but, yeah, the way it was handled I kind of felt that was just me rationalizing the change than realizing it. Maybe a "morphing" scene would have helped. I don't know.
I love how they take out Coyote. Especially when Goliath crushes the head (that's just that sick, twisted part of me again).
I actually didn't mind Morgan's line. Seemed kind of fun to me. Of course, that just may be the way Kieth David reads it.
Brooklyn is made Second in Command. Are we surprised? No. Are we happy? Speaking as a Brooklyn fan--OH YEAH!
And the Xanatos (or is it Fox) Tag. I love Xanatos' cheer over the fact that Fox is his equal.
"Care to play again?" That line always makes me smile, even if it's only at its sheer audacity.
Personally, I kind of liked that the Pack was "upgraded." I mean, they were tackling "supernatural" creatures, why not even the playing field a little?
I don't know whether you know this or not, Greg, but UPGRADE has become another episode that Toon Disney will not show. I can only guess it's because a building blows up (never mind the fact that it's abandoned, barely taller than five stories, and such a throwaway occurance that it wasn't even brought up in the ramble). I wish they'd just grow up.
Anyway, fun episode.
Greg responds...
I'm hoping that by now, Upgrade is back in the rotation. I think someone told me that it was.
I'm also glad that most of the most glaring animation errors were fixed. It's definitely a fun episode and packed with stuff.
And "Care to play again?" is way up there for me in the category of lines that are both funny and chilling.
Todd Jensen writes...
My ramble on "Upgrade".
I'll confess, for a start, that "Upgrade" isn't one of my favorite episodes, due mostly to the fact that it seemed much more like a half-hour "slugfest" than is generally the case with "Gargoyles" (although, given that we're dealing with the Pack here, I suppose it's inevitable - they're not the most subtle antagonists out there, after all). But it had some parts of it that I rather liked.
The transformations of Jackal, Hyena, and Wolf definitely freaked me out. In fact, the first time that I saw this episode, I tried to believe, for a while, that Jackal and Hyena were simply wearing fancy mechanical armor, but the evidence against that was too strong; I had to face the facts, in the end, and realized that they'd become cyborgs. And that definitely chilled me. (In Wolf's case, I didn't even have the option of finding an alternative explanation; it was too obvious that he'd been mutated.) Those three had permanently changed, on the physical level, from what they'd been in "The Thrill of the Hunt". They were no longer fully human. In fact, to me, the real significance of their alterations in "Upgrade" wasn't what you'd pointed out (they need to be upgraded so that it won't be too easy for the gargoyles to take them down - though I did see that there) but rather the way that the three of them were growing less human, their physical transformation being almost an outward sign of their increasing degeneracy.
By contrast, I liked Dingo's refusal to become physically upgraded, and horror at what his teammates had done to themselves. In fact, that was definitely when I began to like Dingo, as opposed to seeing him as just another member of the Pack (as he'd been to me up until then). (It certainly echoed my response to their transformations, which, I suspect, was how most of the audience was similarly responding). I wasn't surprised, therefore, when he was no longer with the Pack in "Grief" afterwards, or when he was shown seeking to "go straight" in "Walkabout". This was definitely the point where we see the "break with Eastcheap" (I chose that particular phrase inspired by your idea of Dingo's real name being Harry Monmouth, and the parallel is definitely there - though I might add that I don't see any of his former Pack-mates being a Falstaff-figure - more on the level of Falstaff's associates like Bardolph or Pistol, perhaps, but not scaling the heights of comic genius of Sir John himself - not that they were meant to.)
We also see the definite introduction (though it'd been hinted at in "Leader of the Pack") of Hyena's interest in Coyote, which has to count as the most bizarre relationship in "Gargoyles"; even Jackal gets nauseated by it, and this is a guy whose idea of a good time is redesigning Goliath's features in his stone sleep.
One side-note: re Hyena's wondering aloud whether gargoyles taste like chicken. I've sometimes wondered why the phrase is "tastes like chicken" as opposed to "tastes like beef" or "tastes like pork", or "tastes like turkey". Just one of life's little mysteries, I suppose.
On the gargoyles' side, we get to see Brooklyn becoming the new second in command. I will admit that I honestly hadn't wondered about that issue until the episode came out. (I've occasionally wondered if Goliath didn't pick one before this episode had anything to do with it having last been filled by Demona, but that's probably a bit of a stretch.) I did think that Brooklyn fitted the role well, and liked the bit at the end where he admits that he's not in that big a hurry to take Goliath's place. And where Goliath offers the role to Hudson, but Hudson declines it.
I still get a kick out of Fox's little public service announcement: "Don't 'Pack' it in. Take the train." Pretty clever of her.
I don't find Officer Morgan's remark that troublesome; in fact, I found it quite amusing.
Incidentally, Xanatos's remark at the end about having found a true equal in Fox reminds me of your analysis of Theseus, where you saw him as having found his equal in the Amazon Queen Hippolyta/Antiope. It makes me wonder whether you'd included a little of your perception of Theseus and Hippolyta in Xanatos and Fox (whether consciously or otherwise). Come to think of it, there's even a slight connection between the two couples, via "A Midsummer Night's Dream".
Greg responds...
Taking your points in reverse order:
One of the great ironies of the series is that the one character who truly builds a healthy relationship (prior to Broadway & Angela in "The Journey") is Xanatos. The BAD GUY.
Heavily influenced by "The Warrior's Husband" and "The Bull from the Sea", I do see Theseus and Antiope as being true equals and the correct match.
But I'm not sure that's influencing X & Fox so much as that ANY great man would WANT a great woman, not a trophy or showpiece or weak link. Xanatos would no more settle for a weak wife than he'd want Owen to throw a judo practice.
By the same token, Goliath loves and respects Elisa and Broadway loves and respects Angela. They are equals.
Maybe it's just the way I think the world should work.
"Tastes like chicken" has entered the vernacular, I think. I first heard it in reference to Rattlesnake meat, and at the time that may have been someone's sincere way to describe what the serpent tastes like.
But since then, I've heard the phrase applied to almost any exotic carnivorous matter. I've never heard beef, pork or turkey used the same way.
The degeneracy of Wolf, Hyena and Jackal was definitely part of our intent.
Noorie writes...
One more thing! I love the the shows! can you just tell me what channel Disney Channel is on??? thanx! ;)
Greg responds...
Check your local listings. I have no idea.
ADRIANA writes...
ARE YOU GOING TO MAKE NEW GARGOLES ACTION FIGURES FOR 2002?
ALSO ANY MEW MAGAZINES AND EPOSIDES THIS YEAR?
Greg responds...
I have no control over any of this stuff. NOT UP TO ME!!
Noorie writes...
Can't you move the show to like...channel 20, in canadian time setting....thing... well, it's just that my family dosnt have "Disney Channel" and i used to watch Gargoyles when i was little, and i remember, me and my little brother used to tape all the shows! i loved the show until it went off, and i never got around to finding out why it got off...well, this is my first time craving to see the show again! it's just that i found out that the shows going to be starting again from the beginning, and i dont have that channel! :( i'm 14 years old right now, and i'm totally getting into mythical creatures and things like that, and i hardly know anything like that...
Cant you just change it into some...common channel? I mean, it could get you more people to watch it, rather then getting better cable JUST to watch the show..(hope i'm not offending you!! i just really loved that show!!) lol, well, i hope my plea's got to you, you're probably like.."R....ight, what a weirdo!" heh, well, im no weirdo..anyways...ya..! k, gotta split! ;)
Greg responds...
You're not a weirdo, you simply don't seem to understand that I have absolutely no control over when and where the reruns air.
George writes...
Who is the Gargoyles Arch Nemisis?
Greg responds...
There isn't just one: Xanatos, Demona and Thailog all come immediately to mind. But I never tried to limit the possibilities.
OSCAR NOMINATIONS
This is an interesting exercise for me. One which mostly demonstrates how few movies I get to see.
The Oscar Noms came out and are in today's paper. So I'm going to list my choices.
But here's the main rule. I can only choose from movies I've actually seen. The result is that there are entire categories (including at least one major category) that I can't vote in at all:
Supporting Actress
Foreign Language Film
Documentary Feature
Documentary Short
Animated Short
Of course, I reserve the right to make changes later if I see more movies. Also, these are NOT predictions. I'm not trying to guess who the Academy will chose. I'm simply stating my preferences...
PICTURE: THE LORD OF THE RINGS: THE RETURN OF THE KING
Haven't seen Mystic River or Seabiscuit. Didn't care for the tiresome Master & Commander. I enjoyed Lost in Translation, a movie which snuck up on everyone, but I don't think it was quite as good as everyone said. I'm sorry that The Cooler didn't get nominated, but in any case it's hard not to vote for LOTR: Return of the King over either Master or Translation. I think that both of the first two movies were better than the third, but as I've stated, this isn't a Return of the Jedi scenario. This is an amazing movie on every level. The bar was set incredibly high by Jackson's first two films. And he still made it over by any reckoning.
ACTRESS: Keisha Castle-Hughes, WHALE RIDER
Well, I haven't seen In America, 21 Grams, Monster or Something's Gotta Give. So Keisha was my only option. But that's okay. I wasn't too wild about the 2-D movie, but the kid was great. Doubt she'll win, but, hey, I'm routing for her.
ACTOR: Johnny Depp, PIRATES OF THE CARIBBEAN: THE CURSE OF THE BLACK PEARL
Haven't seen Mystic River, Cold Mountain or House of Sand and Fog. That leaves Depp in Pirates and Murray in Translation, both terrrific comic performances. I'm choosing Depp, the more obvioulsy comic turn, because (a) comedy is rarely rewarded by the Academy and like to break that barrier and (b) as good as Murray is, he's kinda playing himself. But this was a VERY tough choice for me.
SUPPORTING ACTOR: Alec Baldwin, THE COOLER
Haven't seen 21 Grams, In America, Mystic River or the Last Samurai so all that leaves is Alec in Cooler. But even more than Keisha above, I'm thrilled to have Alec as my choice. I saw The Cooler this past Saturday and REALLY loved it. William H. Macy and Maria Bello are also brilliant in it, but I'm not at all surprised that Baldwin was nominated. He's a great actor.
DIRECTOR: Peter Jackson, RINGS: KING
Haven't seen Mystic River or City of God. Didn't care for Master & Commander. Liked Lost in Translation, but Jackson's efforts on Return of the King are stunning.
ADAPTED SCREENPLAY: Walsh, Boyens, Jackson, LOTR: ROTK
Havent's seen American Splendor, City of God, Mystic River or Seabiscuit, leaving Rings my only option. But again, I like the screenplay so it's a fine choice. Looking forward to the extended version though.
ORIGINAL SCREENPLAY: Coppola, LOST IN TRANSLATION
Haven't seen Barbarian Invasions or Dirty Pretty Things or In America, which leaves me a choice between Lost and Finding Nemo. No contest. Nemo is a cute little movie, but it's far from being my favorite Pixar script. Translation is fascinating.
ART DIRECTION: Hennah, Lee, LOTR: ROTK
Haven't seen Girl with a Pearl Earing, Last Samurai or Seabiscuit. Which leaves me with a contest between LOTR and M&Commander. This was actually a tougher call. I didn't care much for M&C, but it looked damn good. But I think LOTR was a greater overall achievement.
ANIMATED FEATURE: FINDING NEMO.
Haven't seen Brother Bear or Triplets of Belleville. So that leaves Nemo only. Again, not a brilliant film, but it has some brilliant stuff in it, so I can vote this way with a vaguely clear conscious.
CINEMATOGRAPHY: Boyd, MASTER AND COMMANDER: THE FAR SIDE OF THE WORLD
Haven't seen City of God, Cold Mountain, Girl with a Pearl Earing or Seabiscuit, which leaves only M&C, which again looked great. So, fine.
SOUND MIXING: Boyes, Semanick, Hedges, Peek, LOTR: ROTK
Haven't seen Samurai or Seabiscuit, but it leaves three great choices, M&C, ROTK and Pirates. I'm gonna give the edge to ROTK. I seem to be sweeping with them. Can't help it. Note that Christopher Boyes is up for bother Pirates and Rings. That's pretty good odds, but an even bigger bummer, I'd imagine, if he loses.
SOUND EDITING: Boyes, Waters, PIRATES
Boyes is looking good for some award. Sound editing on Nemo, Pirates and M&C were probably all great. But I have a softer spot for the fun of Pirates. One of the few categories where I HAVE seen all of the nominees.
ORIGINAL SCORE: Shore, LOTR: ROTK
Haven't seen Big Fish, Cold Mountain or House of Sand & Fog, which leaves Howard Shore's brilliant ROTK work and Nemo, which was just okay.
ORIGINAL SONG: "Into the West", Walsh, Shore, Lennox, LOTR:ROTK
Well, I'm a big Annie Lennox fan to begin with, and the song was very moving to me, so this is an obvious choice. Throw in the fact that I haven't seen Mighty Wind, Cold Mountain, Cold Mountain or Triplets and it was also my only option. The good news is that so far, there hasn't been a category where I have declined to pick a winner because I only had one option. So far, even in categories with only one option, I've genuinely liked that one option.
COSTUME DESIGN: Dickson, Taylor, LOTR: ROTK
Haven't seen Girl with Pearl, Samurai or Seabiscuit, which again leaves M&C and LOTR. Went with LOTR for cause. Great costumes across the board.
FILM EDITING: Selkirk, LOTR: ROTK
Haven't seen City of God, Cold Mountain or Seabiscuit, leaving YET again M&C and LOTR. No brainer. Half the time in the M&C battle scenes I couldn't keep basic track of who was doing what.
MAKEUP: Taylor, King: LOTR:ROTK
Another of the categories where I have seen all the nominees. Pirates had great make-up, truly. And I came very close to giving this one to Pirates. But just that one Orc was so damn good, and he was just the tip of the iceberg. M&C is also in the running, but why?
LIVE ACTION SHORT FILM: "Two Soldiers"
I haven't seen the other four options, but I have seen Two Soldiers, based on a William Faulkner short story that just happens to be my all time favorite short story ever. I made a point of seeing this short and was not disappointed. It's really great.
VISUAL EFFECTS: Rygiel, Letteri, Cook, Funke, LOTR: ROTK
And the last of three categories where I've seen all the nominees. Any other year and Pirates (but not M&C) would have challenged for this award. But ROTK, right?
So what's the final tally...
11 for LOTR: ROTK, including picture, director, song, score, screenplay and a half-dozen tech and craft awards. I think that's a clean-sweep. And I'm not generally a sweepy kinda guy. But the true geek in me has been awakened by this trilogy.
2 for Pirates, including Depp's brilliant performanceand a tech award.
1 for WHALE RIDER's kid actress.
1 for THE COOLER's Alec Baldwin.
1 for LOST IN TRANSLATION's keen screenplay by Sofia Coppola.
1 for FINDING NEMO. Best animated feature, won perhaps by default, though I liked the movie.
1 for MASTER & COMMANDER for cinematography, another default win perhaps, though it certainly looked gorgeous.
1 for "Two Soldiers", a personal favorite that may be the award I'm most routing to be right about.
And then five categories where I couldn't vote at all.
That's it.
Bye.
christopher pagan writes...
what channel is toondisney
Greg responds...
It's a cable network. Check local listings.
matt writes...
in "Revelations" Mace Malone tells Matt that Xanatos provided the Illuminati with some information (the gargoyles stuff)
1. did the Illuminati know that gargoyles existed before Xanatos informed them of the Manhatten Clan?
2. did the Illuminati know about the Manhatten Clan before Xanatos told them?
3. how much about the Manhatten Clan does the Illuminati know? obviously they know of their connection to Elisa Maza, but do they know more things like their names, a bit about them, their pasts?
thanx alot Greg!
Greg responds...
1. Still existed or ever?
2. Maybe not. Though reports in the Tattler would have raised a red flag for Duval if brought to his attention.
3. Probably more than would make us comfortable.
Mark: PRJibaroPapi69@aol.com writes...
Hey Greg! Long time fan first time posting! I was wondering, you said that Gargoyles is the total property of Disney. Does that mean that even though you are the creator, you can't do anything with the series unless they give the okay? If so, does that mean your unable to buy ALL the rights to the show? If not, do you ever plan to reair the show with all new episodes in the future? The reason I ask these questions is because Disney was stupid in pulling the plug on the series just because they wanted to move on to something new. But if your able to buy the rights, I'm sure there's more than enough studio's out there who are so eager for ratings that they'll finance the reintergration of the show back to television. The WB would definatly welcome the show to it's programing as it was aired on that station in New York. Is there anyway that, at the very least, you can create a book series of Gargoyle novels that bring a close to the storylines that were never closed while the series was on the air? I just think that if Gargoyles will never make a big TV come back that comic books or novels should be made in it's place that bring a big close to the universe once and for all. Well... an official close because we all know that Gargoyles will always live on in fanfiction. That's all I guess. Thanx for writing such a wonderful series. One more questions, although it's not documented, in your most best thought opinion since the Gargoyles are the guardians of Manhattan, how do you think they reacted when, upon waking up from their stone sleep, they saw a big gapeing hole and a huge smoke screen on what used to be the world trade center on September 11th??? I, and alot of the fans, would really like to know.
Greg responds...
Yes. Again. Disney owns 100% of Gargoyles. They don't sell their properties, and even if they did -- WHICH THEY DON'T -- the cost would be way prohibitive.
I don't know if they were stupid to pull the plug after Goliath Chronicles. I'm not sure they exercised much smarts in pushing me out the door prior to Chronicles, but that's a VERY complicated story and in any case, should be attributed to individuals who no longer even work for the Mouse. Including me.
I also think, unfortunately, that you're wrong about other networks like the WB wanting the show. It's a moot issue, because Disney won't sell, but I see no indication that there is a single network out there looking for something like Gargoyles. No indication at all. Gargoyles has the greatest fans in the world, and I'm hoping that the DVD release will make enough of a splash and attract fans, both old and new, to wake people up to the possibilities that the series represents.
In the meantime, I haven't given up trying to get the property up and running again in some way, shape or form, and publishing (comics or novels) is something I'm extremely interested in.
As for the fans, the best thing they can do -- at least until the DVD's release -- is to come to the Gathering (our annual Gargoyles Fan Convention), this August, 2004 in Montreal.
Check out their website:
http://www.gatheringofthegargoyles.com/
The more fans that show up to the convention, the greater our collective voice, the more likely that Disney takes notice.
Finally, I've answered the 9/11 question many times. Check the archives.
folklore writes...
Dear Greg, great job you deserve more compliments than i can offer, but my question is why were the gargyles from the different regions of the earth so different except for the japanese and your staring characters? well thanks for your time if i get it. bye
Greg responds...
I think the Ishimura clan was just as different from the gargs as many of the Mayan clan. I'm not going to get caught up in migration patterns or genetic explanations that are just going to trip me up later. In any case, most of the differences you observed are fairly superficial anyway.
Shaun Yoka writes...
Hey Greg your the best, I got two questions.First i was wondering is toondisney airing all the gargoyle episodes that were fully created?Second is if not are any episodes available for sale that aren't shown on toondisney?
Greg responds...
Toon Disney, as I understand it, rarely airs "Deadly Force". That episode was available on one of the original VHS tapes that Buena Vista sold. It's not that easy to find anymore, but hopefully we'll have a DVD coming out this year...
Crabwhistle writes...
is Lexington going to become a Crazed maniac in the future like in the episode "Future Tense"
Greg responds...
Who's to say?
Well, I am I guess. But I'm not. So who's to say?
Todd Jensen writes...
In the notes that you recently printed for "Double Jeopardy", you mentioned in the outline, just after Thailog emerges from his box for the first time in front of Sevarius and his mercenaries, that this is the last time in the series that we would be seeing that particular band of mercenaries. Was there something ominous intended about this statement - as in, hinting at just what happened to them after Thailog got out?
Greg responds...
I don't think I could be any less subtle, frankly. Use your imagination.
Zarok writes...
Hey Greg, quick question…
Has either of Oberon's and Titania's biological children appeared in any of Shakespeare's plays? (Why didn't I think of this years ago?)
P.S. I mean the children they had together.
Greg responds...
I'm not saying.
Zarok writes...
I was reading through the archives and I found posts on the subject of Odin's horned helmet versus the more historically accurate hornless helmets of Hakon and your comments that perhaps the stereotypical vision of Vikings being clad in horned helmets was inspired by the Norse gods rather than Norse mortals and I remembered this bit of trivia you might find interesting, While Vikings never wore horned helmets into battle they were sometimes used in religious ceremonies. At any rate, I loved the design you guys gave to Odin. It's just as I always imagined the big guy. I would have been disappointed if you had given Odin a more earthly Viking look just as much as I would have been Hakon had had horns like Marvel's Loki (how can he stand up with those things?). It just seems pointless to me to debate historical accuracy in relation to supernatural beings, I mean if you say Odin shouldn't have a horned helmet because real Vikings didn't have them you might as well say Anubis shouldn't have a jackal-head because real Egyptians didn't have jackal-heads.
Greg responds...
Agreed. Cool bit of trivia, by the way.
Blaise writes...
DOUBLE JEOPARDY
The (currently) new ramble! Here's my own (which I also posted in the Comment Room).
After watching the "Previously..." recap and hearing Sevarius' mention about cloning, and then seeing the title, I pretty much figured out what the episode was going to be about. Consequently, I kind of knew that the gargoyle on the battlements at Xanatos' place wasn't really Goliath. Still, I was not quite prepared for Thailog, but we'll get to him later on.
The prologue is well written, and does fit in well with the established continuity...except for the date it's given in the computer files. Even allowing that Xanatos did not get released from prison until after Oct. 31, when did Elisa get shot, and how long before she was able to walk on crutches? Still, I'm willing to let it slide. Besides, it was cool how Goliath smashed the robot's head (you can see the red eye-bulb pop out).
The coloring error you saw, Greg, concerning Thailog's arm in the attack on Lex and Broadway, seems to have been corrected in later airings (at least it's black on my tape).
That was one thing that surprised me--seeing the flash in Elisa's windshield NOT being a copy of Goliath, but something with black skin, red eyes, and a white something (hair of course, but I only saw a glimpse).
I was curious as to what Sevarius was doing with the mercenaries, and why he seemed to be stealing from his employer. I think I may have decided to wait until the end to draw any conclusions.
When Owen mentioned the Emir, I remembered THE EDGE. I didn't expect the dude to actually show up in the series (I was still a bit naive (sp?)), and instead thought more along the lines that this would be a running gag in the series. A sort of background business thing that Xanatos would always be dealing with.
It is interesting to see Xanatos in a semi-vengeful attitude. It's just something you're not used to seeing from this guy. I liked hearing the list of his "enemies" for some strange reason. Just nice to know that Xanatos isn't so untouchable.
And Owen even gets to make a couple of digs at Xanatos--not just the one at the end, but the "plan you've neglected to mention" and cryptically referring to Xanatos Enterprises as "a certain large consortium" (sp?).
Even though Goliath laughed maniacally well-enough in ENTER MACBETH, I still got a kick out of Hudson's line. A little nod to the fact that Goliath has a tendency to be...stoic, perhaps.
And then we get another glimpse at Thailog. And he actually managed to look scarier than Goliath, IMHO. Not a bad trick. I hadn't thought until reading the memo that something...unpleasant may have happend to the mercenaries here. This new thought rather intrigues me (in a morbid sort of way).
The Gen-U-Tech traking bracelet makes a reappearance. Gotta love continuity.
Seeing the electronic log of Thailog's creation proved to be quite fascinating for me. Mostly because of the mention of "accelerating (sp?) the normally slow gargoyle growth process." I liked the added explanation here and the nod towards the coloring change. On the whole, it made everything easier to except, and allowed me to sit back and have fun watching the episode develop.
Like many folks, I loved the whole Xanatos-Sevarius confrontation. Neither is really aware of what the other is thinking, but believes they are. And when Sevarius started to cut loose (and then undercut it with the whispered question of his quality of performance) I laughed out loud. That and the look on Xanatos' face are still amusing (vengeful, confused...you see a lot of sides to Xanatos that you normally don't in this episode).
When Goliath finally meets Thailog...I did not expect Thailog to turn out quite the villain he was, despite knowing that he learned everything from Xanatos. Consequently, I was not expecting him to jump Goliath like that. But this made him a lot of fun. And I love the way Thailog sort of hisses out the "s" at the end of "All the old blocks."
When Thailog is talking to Xanatos and Sevarius in the hold of the oil rig, there is a loop of repeated animation that is very noticeable. The odd thing is, the lips actually remain more-or-less in sync with the dialogue.
I love Thailog's lines here. "And waste my life playing 'guardian angel' night after night to a decrepit city, infested with inferior humans?" Just his choice of words says a lot about this guy's outlook on the world. And to this day I keep playing his other line to Goliath in my head from time to time: "I considered caring about you. It took some effort, but I arranged for you to join this party because I planned to share the money with you. But our little...'family reunion' disappointed me, *father*! So I've decided to *hate* you, too." I just love how that throws some of the blame for what happens on Goliath. Man, with this and OUTFOXED, Goliath's been faced with a lot of his shortcomings.
I had no problem with Elisa slipping out of the manacles. I mean, those things weren't like police cuffs that could close in diameter to conform to a prisoner's wrists. Besides, Xanatos' comment was rather fun.
Actually, there were a lot of fun lines in this sequence, and the episode as a whole (of course, they've already been pointed out, so...).
I get a strange kick out of the fact that it's Sevarius who picks up on the idea that could save them all. It's always fun when the villains and heroes wind up on the same side for some reason.
Something I find very interesting whenever I watch this episode: when Elisa and Xanatos think Goliath might be dead, Xanatos actually moves to comfort Elisa! It's just endlessly fascinating to me that in a potential moment of loss, the proferred shoulder to cry on comes from the antagonist. That's one great thing about this series, character was never subverted for the sake of conforming to traditional "roles."
I actually did think that Thailog had died in the fire. I of course would have regretted it--he was a great character, and Keith David's mannerisms were so distinct from Goliath's that I half-wondered if maybe Thailog was voiced by someone else (a thought I had also had concerning Jim Cummings' differnt sound as Darkwing and Negaduck). However, it wasn't until the "reverse-Xanatos tag" that Thailog took an even greater leap upward in my estimation. Learning that Thailog probably survived and was (in Owen's words) "still out there, has the money, is as powerful as Goliath...and smarter than [Xanatos]." That was one of those "shock" moments, and immediately followed up by "Owen, I think I've created a monster." It felt to me like not only had a new villain been unleashed upon the world, but one greater than any that had come before. I actually like seeing the image of Thailog laughing (although recently, I've wondered what the effect would be if his transparent-face suffused the whole screen).
Rambling on Thailog for a moment--it was great how he moved beyond the stereotypical "evil twin" bit. Although his contrast with Goliath is a very compelling aspect of him, he is not confined to that one dimension. He has the tics that are very much his own, and he manages to assert his independence even more when he takes to wearing the armor.
I know, Greg, that you feel every villain should seem, in "that particular encounter" the hero's unltimate enemy. Still, I can't help but feel that the true rank of "archfiend" seems made for the likes of Thailog.
This is another one of those episodes I really enjoy!
Greg responds...
Thanks.
My plans for Season Three would have had Thailog really emerge as the Gargoyles primary antagonist. I really wanted to give him a chance to come into his own. Still do.
As you know, Keith, of course, DID perform both roles. In fact his talent was one of the main inspirations for doing Thailog in the first place.
TIMELINE...
You had questions. Maybe this will clear some of them up. Then again, maybe not.
Friday, October 28th, 1994
Xanatos may anticipate being released by October 31st, the date of his coming pre-trial appearance. [NOTE: The calendar in Xanatos' cell matches neither 1994 nor 1995. It may not even be his.]
Monday, October 31st, 1994
In part, ironically, because both Xanatos and Elisa wish to conceal the gargoyles' existence, Xanatos' lawyers and the D.A.'s office agree to a plea bargain. He pleads guilty to the sole count of receiving stolen property. He is sentenced to six months, including time served, with every possibility that the sentence will be reduced in three months for good behavior.
Tuesday, November 15th, 1994
Owen acquires a DNA sample from Goliath.
Friday, November 18th, 1994
Elisa is shot.
Tuesday, January 3rd, 1995
Elisa is on crutches when Macbeth first attacks castle.
Wednesday, January 4th, 1995
Xanatos is released from prison. Goes home to the castle first. And then stops by Gen-U-Tech.
Hope that helps.
Anonymous writes...
what approximate ages are Gargoyles voice actors like Jeff Bennett, Tress MacNeille, Kath Soucie and Jim Cummings? I can't even find a rough guess at their age on the net.
Greg responds...
I don't know. I'm forty and I see them all as peers more or less. Figure they're about 40 plus or minus about ten years.
(I hope saying even that doesn't get me into trouble.)
Anonymous writes...
I don't know if you've heard of this show, but you've worked with some of its staff members on shows like "Men In Black" and "Max Steel- The shows called "Extreme Ghostbusters." It was 1997 spin-off of "The Real Ghostbusters" cartoon. If somehow you were able to bring back "Gargoyles" in the same way, how would you do it? Do you think you'd be able to work around it considering TGC, or would you have someone help you or take the torch? If this possibility did happen, what would your concept of villains be?
Greg responds...
I'm not sure I understand the point you're trying to make regarding Extreme Ghostbusters... I know of the show, know many people who worked on it, but I never saw it. Never saw much of Real Ghostbusters either, actually.
For more info on what I'd do to bring Gargoyles back, check the FAQ for my so-called Master Plan.
As for villains, I don't know how to answer this question generically. Do you have a specific villain you want to know about?
Anonymous writes...
I know that it's impossible, but in your opinion, what would happen if there was a cross-over between your two creations Gargoyles and Max Steel? How would the characters react towards each other?
Greg responds...
For starters, credit going where it is due, Max wasn't my creation. I developed the show, but did not create it.
After that, I guess they'd fit together all right. Max is assigned to investigate Gargoyle sightings or something. He's got nano-tech powers. It could be fun.
But it doesn't particularly jazz me.
Anonymous writes...
You know how in most comic books that super-villains end up in mental hospitals for the criminally insane instead of prison? Two examples are Arkham Asylum in the DC comics and Ravencroft in Marvel Comics. Out of all of the Gargoyles' enemies, who would most likely end up in an insane asylum? Fans have to admit that villains like Demona, Dr. Sevarious, Castaway, Thailog, Hyena, Jackal, Proteus and Coldsteel are all nuts! Plus, Wolf and Fang seem to have some issues.
Greg responds...
I don't think that either Wolf, Fang, Sevarius, Thailog or Coldsteel are "criminally insane" by its legal definition. I think it's a stretch for Demona, Jackal, Castaway and Proteus as well. That is, all these characters know right from wrong.
Of the characters you named, Hyena and Proteus are the most psychopathic. But I think Proteus knows what he's doing. He just revels in his evil. Hyena, frankly, isn't that bright. She has no control at all, beyond some semi-affection for her brother, i.e. her anchor.
Clearly, many of these characters COULD wind up in someplace Arkhamesque. But that would depend on lawyers and judges and juries. Obviously, the one trial we know that Hyena faced landed her in a regular prison cell right beside Fox. So even for her, a legal argument could obviously be made that she was criminally sane.
Todd Jensen writes...
Yay! A new episode ramble! Thanks, Greg!
Here are some of my own thoughts about "Double Jeopardy".
The opening one is a rather odd little memory. In the summer of 1995, I spotted an article on "Gargoyles" in a sci-fi magazine (whose name I can no longer remember) discussing what would be done in Season Two; among other things, it included a mention that Goliath's daughter would be introduced into the series. I was quite curious about that, and wondered what she'd be like and how it would be done. And then, when "Double Jeopardy" first aired, and Thailog was treated as Goliath's son in it, I wondered if the article had erred and gotten the gender of Goliath's offspring wrong. (Of course, I know now that it was Angela that the article meant, not Thailog, so that there was no mistake there except on my part.)
In light of the opening flashback, Xanatos must have already started building a whole new set of Steel Clan robots even while he was still in prison, before "The Edge" (especially given that I spotted a whole bunch of those robots in storage, alongside the one that was activated to attack Goliath).
I also liked Owen's "Is this a plan that you've neglected to mention?" line. He really sounded hurt there.
I was interested to notice Renard on Xanatos's suspects list for Thailog's kidnapping, alongside Demona and Macbeth. While I can easily imagine Demona or Macbeth being willing to engage in such a maneuver against Xanatos, I doubt, in light of his rigid code of integrity, that Renard would have done the same (although there is "Golem" to consider, coming up later in the season). Maybe Xanatos believed that the temptation of kidnapping his new gargoyle would have been too much for even his father-in-law to resist.
Sevarius's hamming it up with Xanatos ("Yes! You robbed me of my creation!") was one of the funniest moments in "Gargoyles" for me; certainly the funniest in the episode. (Don't quit your day job, Anton.) And I agree with you about the Dr. Antinori business, by the way. (Also on the subject of Sevarius's overacting, I couldn't help but think that some of his narration in the "clone files" that Lex and Broadway discovered felt almost like a parody of that in a nature documentary, such as the "time for it to leave the nest" line, though I don't know if it was intended that way.)
You no doubt recall how I'd earlier pointed out the similarities between Thailog and Edmund (which I first began to notice after you mentioned Edmund being your favorite Shakespeare character); it occurred to me recently that Thailog also does have a certain similarity to Mordred, especially in many modern-day versions of the Arthurian legend, such as T. H. White. He's Goliath's "illegitimate son", just as Mordred was Arthur's, and his training by his other two fathers, Xanatos and Sevarius, does have (if you're out looking for the parallels) a certain echo of how Mordred, in White's "The Once and Future King", similarly gets trained by his mother Morgause. And the dynamics between Goliath and Thailog, with Goliath initially rejecting his son but then learning that he was wrong to do so, and now reaching out to him - but too late - do remind me of how in White, Arthur similarly initially moves against his son (trying to drown him at birth), but then understands that he was wrong to do so, also makes the attempt to reach out to him, but is coldly rejected by Mordred when he does so. (Come to think of it, Thailog also clearly lusts after both of Goliath's loves, Demona and Elisa, even to the point of combining them in Delilah, just as Mordred lusts after his stepmother Guinevere and attempts to wed her after he usurps his father's throne.)
I've mentioned before the element that I believe makes Thailog an especially great antagonist (the incongruous pairing of Goliath's physical appearance and voice with a thoroughly Xanatosian amorality - though I think that Thailog comes across as more malevolent than Xanatos does, which is also a good touch), so I won't go into that again. It's a bit of a pity that he only turned up twice more in the original series after that ("Sanctuary" and "The Reckoning"), although I suppose that if you'd gotten to do more episodes past "The Journey" that we'd have gotten a lot more of the guy.
The ending definitely surprised me; I was expecting Xanatos to reveal that he'd seen to it that he didn't lose the ransom money after all, but instead we got the revelation that Thailog had escaped with it and is out there, happily scheming away, to Xanatos's own alarm. (As I mentioned before, it's particularly of interest to note that this is the last time in the series that Xanatos attempts to make his own gargoyles - and after the way that Thailog backfired on him, who can blame him?)
It's great to have the rambles going again, and I'm looking forward to the ones to come.
Greg responds...
I'm afraid we haven't made that much Ramble progress recently, though I know we got past Avalon and into (at least) the beginning of the World Tour.
I think, like your Edmund comparison, your comparison of Thailog to Mordred is very apt. Perhaps moreso. Another bastard, basically. I'm not sure how conscious I was of any of these individuals influences, but I'm fascinated with the archetype of "The Bastard" in literature. Both the quote/unquote good guys (like Theseus, Arthur, Dunois, etc.) and the quote/unquote bad guys (like Edmund and Mordred, etc.) Thailog with his three fathers was clearly designed to be our bastard. And what a great bastard he is.
I've certainly read White's ONCE AND FUTURE KING at least a couple times. And I've lost count how many times I've seen CAMELOT.
jp12@mail.csuchico.edu writes...
How can I get a hold of those scripts that were written for Team Atlantis? All the interviews make it sound like good stuff. I also admit I'll get excited about the straight-to-video release only when I see it on a shelf (not that Disney changes plans once they're announced, right?). If there is any way to get copies (digital or otherwise) please respond with the information. You guys worked too long on it for the stuff to vanish (I read you even did the voice recordings for a dozen and a half episodes). It's a real shame. Thanks for your time. It is appreciated.
Greg responds...
As far as I know, there's no way for you to get copies of the scripts. But the DVD release is out there. It's called "Atlantis: Milo's Return" and collects three episodes from the series that never was along with a framing device. Personally, I'm not wild about the frame, but the picture (or rather the three pictures) are pretty cool.
Sean writes...
In the episode Golem why did you use a Rabbi to summon the Golem?
Most of the episodes have some mythology behind them. I've heard about golems before, but I've never heard of any myths associating Jewish people with the use of magic. I'm certain that it goes against their religion.
P.S. I looked to see if this question was asked, but I didn't find it in the achieves. If I've missed it could you email me at the_nameless@2d.com
If you post my question, please remove the "P.S." text.
Greg responds...
The Golem of Prague is specifically a Jewish legend, and Rabbi Loew, the Rabbi in the Flashback sequence, is a character of both history and legend -- and he is the traditional summoner of the Golem. I'm fairly certain any cursory search on the word Golem would reveal this.
Like most major religions, Judaism houses a multitude of interpretations, beliefs and practices. I'm Jewish, but I'm sure there are Jews out there who wouldn't agree that I was.
So you're "certainty" is a bit presumptuous.
julio writes...
hey greg
Do you know if gargoyles is gonna be on another chanel ecept toondisney
Greg responds...
Not that I know of.
NEEDS HElP writes...
AHH! I need to know what Shakespear's The Tempest and King Lear were about my monday!!! HURRY!!! plez a breif discription 2 or 3 sentances for each :(
Greg responds...
You wrote this on a Sunday?
Forget that I'm two years behind. How were you EVER going to get this answer in less than 24 hours?
Tempest: Guy and daughter are set adrift. Guy gets magic. Punishes his tormentors. All ends happy.
Lear: Dad has three daughters. Splits his kingdom between the nasty two. All ends sad.
Does that help?
No?
Good.
Alfred Manifesto writes...
Yo
Long time watcher, first time question asker, I happen to be doing a research paper for colege concerning the literary references within Gargoyles (shakespeare and mythology). I was wondering what comments you might have concerning the way which you used these works. For example, your re-telling of McBeth in city of stone parts 1-4 is very different from the play. This makes sense because the play is an altered versain of the actual historical story to make it more entertaining as well as aceptable to the king of england. As i intend on focusing a majority of my paper to Mcbeth I was wondering how you went about combining history, shakespeare, and your own storyline. If you could make any general comments or speak about mythology in any way would be greatly apriciated. I ask not only because it would help my paper, but also it would be a personal thrill to even get a responce. I've known about this site for a while, but this is the first time i've had a decent question. Lastly, I know its quite possible this has been answered before, but i have not yet read all of the entries in the archives, you are creator and producer of one of my favorite cartoons of all time, how does one find themself in that possition of creater and producer? thanx for your time
Greg responds...
Well, unless your paper wasn't due until 2004, I guess I'm too late to help you there.
Macbeth (with an "a" and a lower case "b") the play was indeed a major influence on our version of Macbeth, but we chose to follow the less-told tale that was the true (or truer) history. But we kept the Weird Sisters in it, and even a few lines of Shakespeare where possible. Plus of course we added the gargoyle race, weaving Demona in and out of Macbeth's story. Or rather, we weaved Macbeth's story into the tapestry that is the Gargoyles' Universe.
As to my background, I'd suggest checking the FAQ and coming back here if you have more specific questions that the FAQ didn't answer.
XxspideyManXx0 writes...
whats the story of some real gargoyles
Greg responds...
As opposed to fake ones? Or fictional ones?
I don't understand the question.
Vashkoda writes...
Hi Greg. Looking over your G2198 responses, I picked up on something a little confusing.
You say that Samson, Delilah and Zafiro all learn Bushido in Ishimura. Then you say that Nick also goes to Ishimura to join the Order of the Guardian, and is trained in the way of the Gargoyle Warrior. I'm a little confused as to whether both groups are essentially doing the same thing--are the gargoyles *also* part of the Order of the Guardian? And yet you've referred to Nick several times as just "Guardian", as if he were the only one. So if you could please clarify this for me...
1a) Are Delilah, Samson and Zafiro also part of the Order of the Guardian? b) If not, are any gargoyles part of this Order? c) Is Delilah, Samson, and Zafiro's training in Ishimura completely separate from Nick's training? d) If so, were they able to meet in Ishiura, or do they only get introduced to each other later?
2a) I'm assuming that because it's an "Order", there must be more than one member, but because you've referred to him simply as "Guardian" (perhaps as in "the one and only"), *is* Nick the only one? b) If not, as a very rough estimate, how many would you say there are in 2198 before the invasion? ...a handful, dozens, hundreds?
3a) Is Ishimura the only training area of this Order, or is it one of many? b) If Ishimura is the only place the Order trains initiates, why was that particular location chosen?
4a) I admit I haven't done the math, nor am I sure of the life expectancy of a human living on Avalon, but is Thom, the original Guardian, still alive in 2198? b) If he is alive, does he help lead or train those in the Order? c) Is the purpose of the future Guardian(s) the same as the purpose of the first Guardian? (Thom)
Greg responds...
1. There are two "academic" tracks in Ishimura. One for Gargoyles and one for humans, though they have many classes that overlap. Any and all gargoyles are admitted to the program in Ishimura, but the admissions process for Humans is very stiff. I picture lawsuits over the inequity. But the reasoning is that they are teaching skills that in theory can be used against them, so they need to be very careful about who gets these skills. Since (a) the admission process is difficult and (b) the course work is difficult, very few humans graduate to Guardian status. Nick is not the only Guardian, but they aren't a dime a dozen. Frankly, I doubt Nick met Samson for the first time in Ishimura, because I would think that the Maza family and the Manhattan clan would still be pretty tight. Samson probably met Nick more or less immediately after he was born.
2. Less than a hundred.
3. Ishimura has a long tradition of teaching Bushido to humans. In a global environment, it made sense to locate the school of the Gargoyle Nation in that location. Avalon was much less practical.
4. The purpose is the same, and Tom is the clear inspiration for the Order. I'm not going to reveal whether or not he's alive. Mathematically, it is possible. Assuming Tom spent nearly all of his remaining life on Avalon, he'd be biologically 62 in 2198. (As opposed to biologically 54 in 1996.) But that's no guarantee of survival.
Sam writes...
Would we maybe see Jesus in an episode?
Greg responds...
It isn't likely.
Heidi Doeing writes...
Siren writes...
Well, first off, Smart Ass answers are my favorite...But I can't pick one, so here are just a few of my favs.
Airwalker writes...
In the 'ONCE UPON A TIME...' segments you've done, we've seen why Malcolm would need to ally himself with a Gargoyle clan. But why would Hudson want
to ally himself with Malcolm?
Greg responds...
Patience, grasshopper...
Scott Iskow writes...
That last question of mine got me thinking...
Are there flying pigs in the Gargoyles Universe?
(Believe it or not, that's actually a serious question. Go fig.)
Greg responds...
I've got the bacon, do you have the catapult?
ndrew writes...
In the episode the gathering (part 2) what did titania whisper to fox at the end of the episode. I have been wondering this for a long time.
Greg responds...
You and what army?
Oh, yeah. That army. <WAVES> "Hi, guys!"
Heidi Doeing writes...
I don't think, despite your multiple attempts to evade the question, that anyone will stop until the real answer is given:
What did Anastacia whisper to Fox?
( ;) just thought I'd try again)
Greg responds...
You misspelled Anastasia.
Greg responds...
Yeah, those are pretty fun. Particularly the middle two.
The last one's a bit feeble.
And the first is just a famous reference.
recorded on 03-02-01
Were you calling me feeble or your response?
Just curious. And I have a cousin named Anastacia and that's how she spells her name.
Greg responds...
I was most definitely calling my smart-ass response feeble. Couldn't think of anything funny to say, so I just attacked your spelling. Which by your lights, wasn't even wrong.
So that makes my answer even more feeble.
Zarok writes...
Hi Greg
I have a few questions regarding gargoyles 2198…
1) You once said that CGI would be ideal for 2198, care to elaborate. Do you feel that certain visual aspects would be best represent in GCI or do you figure people will naturally equate aliens and such with CGI.
2) A lot of the plot lines in 2198 seems to depend on the viewer being familiar with the original Gargoyles series and would be near incomprehensible to a new viewer. I mean how would you explain stuff like the Owen/Puck and Alexander IV relationship without regurgitating a complex and confusing back-story. (I know it doesn't seem confusing when you actually watch the show but it's not the sort of thing you can relate in a few minutes of exposition). So have you given any thought on how you would bring a new viewer up to speed?
Greg responds...
1. The subject matter of the show, being more science fiction driven than fantasy, suggests to me that the things that are relatively easy in CGI animation -- as opposed to the things that are difficult and therefore expensive in both dollars and man-hours -- would be high-lighted more than in the old series. I'd be happy to do 2198 in either CGI or cell or a combo. Frankly, whatever I could get. But to the extent the show has been developed, it was developed so that CGI would be an economically feasible option.
2. Yes. Mostly, by taking nothing for granted. Let me use Owen as an example. New viewers meet Owen for the first time, perhaps in a scene talking to Alexander. They don't know about Puck. They don't need to know about Puck. He's simply Xanatos' advisor. (Does this scenario sound familiar to anyone?) After Xanatos' abduction from Earth, Owen can't change into Puck. Since he can't change he doesn't. Since he can't and doesn't, he doesn't talk about it, because it's a non-issue. So no new viewers are confused. Sure the old viewers know that this guy is Puck, but hopefully they'll understand why he cannot change (i.e. he can only change to teach or protect Alex. He's already failed in the latter and Alex isn't around for the former, so he cannot change). Their (inside) knowledge hopefully enhances their viewing pleasure. They understand Owen's frustration and its ramifications more. But there's nothing to distract the audience that is new to the Gargoyles Universe -- until we are ready to reveal things anew.
Does that help?
Anonymous writes...
I would like to ask a producer his view on what an aspiring director and/or producer should major in college? Should it be filmmaking? Or media arts? Or is it something else all together? Thanks!
Greg responds...
Two years later, I'm guessing my answer comes late. And I'm afraid you didn't provide me with enough information. I assume we're talking about Animation, right?
I'm a producer, and I majored in English w/an emphasis in Fiction Writing. But a director (as opposed to an animation director or a voice director) ....
I don't know.
Depends on the programs available....
Zarok writes...
Something I've been thinking of regarding the proposed Timedancer spin-off. If Brooklyn spends 40 years bouncing back and forth through time then after the first few years, he probably realises that the phoenix gate keeps appearing in front of him. Now the problem starts when he meets Katana and they have Tachi because they would have to keep in close proximity to Brooklyn at all times just in case. This would mean effectively zero privacy, I mean what happens when Brooklyn and Katana want to "do it", do they just toss Tachi a blindfold and tell her to stick his talons in her ears?
Greg responds...
Tachi doesn't hatch until after the ride is over, but there's Nash and Fu Dog to consider.
After a few years of this, Brook's attitude toward the Gate changes. Pretty much a 180 from the way you see it changing.
Zarok writes...
Hey Greg I hear your writing a novel, if so…
1) what's it called?
2) What's it about?
3) And most importantly where can I get it?
Greg responds...
1. Anyone who was at G1998 could probably guess.*
2. Ditto.
3. No where right now. I'm about halfway through the second draft. And it's not like I've got a publisher lined up. But believe me, when I'm ready I'll let all of you know.
*Note: that's a not-too-subtle hint that great and wonderful things happen every year at the Gathering. I reveal and show things there that I don't and won't at any other time. So check out...
http://www.gatheringofthegargoyles.com/
and find a way to get to Montreal this August. You won't regret it!
Orin writes...
are all future gargolye projects dead at this point
Greg responds...
Let's just say "sleeping".
Todd Jensen writes...
A couple of "King Arthur-in-the-comics" related questions:
1. You mentioned that you've read "Camelot 3000" (and were even working at DC Comics at the time that it came out). In your opinion, did it have any influence on your vision of Arthur's return in the Gargoyles Universe. (Well, there were obviously some strong differences, such as Arthur returning in the present day in "Gargoyles" rather than the year 3000, and finding Excalibur before he finds Merlin where in "Camelot 3000", it was the other way around).
2. Have you ever read "Prince Valiant" (the most famous Arthurian comic)? If so, what did you think of it?
Greg responds...
1. My ideas on Arthur were fairly well-formed by the time I read Camelot 3000, a limited series by Mike W. Barr and Brian Bolland. For example, in my mind Arthur was in Avalon, not on British soil. And frankly, the notion of Arthur coming back is part of the legend, not something that Mike came up with. I also have no plans to use reincarnation to bring back dead knights, etc. So I don't think it was a major influence.
Having said that, I thoroughly enjoyed Camelot 3000. Thoroughly.
2. Prince Valiant was never in the L.A. Times, at least not in my memory. When I was in High School, it appeared in the now-defunct L.A. Herald Examiner, a paper we didn't get at home, on Sundays only. So on Monday mornings, I would occasionally take a look at it. Basically, I'm passingly familiar with it, but I don't know much about it.
matt writes...
do you have any story ideas where Gabriel and/or Ophelia are the focus?
Greg responds...
Yes.
matt writes...
have the other two garg beast of the Avalon Clan besides Boidikka had a hatchling already as of "Avalon"?
Greg responds...
I don't know. I'd have to work the numbers.
person writes...
Hi Greg. Here's my question.
In Awakening part one, a man covered in white made a bargain with Hakon. Was that The Magus? And what did it have to do with the whole spell thing? Because I know it was Demona and Captain of the Guard's idea to let the Vikings have the castle. I just don't know what the Magus(or whoever it was)had to do with it.
Thanks!
Greg responds...
It was the Captain. We simply tried to fool you into thinking it was the Magus.
tribe writes...
i have only one real important question...and that is, when will the entire gargoyles series (season 1,2&3) finally be available to purchase on DVD. and i'm hoping it's packed with extra goodies like possible drawing outtakes, behind the scenes, animation reels and much, much more?!?
Greg responds...
Season One is supposed to be released sometime in the fourth quarter of 2004. My guess is that other seasons will ONLY get a release if the sales on Season One merit that release.
Zarok writes...
First Greg let me say how honoured I am to by the first poster in the new Space-Spawn category. One of the reasons I'm so fixated with the Space-Spawn is that the more I learn about them the more questions I have. A perfect example of this is the revelation that the Space-Spawn have two gods. As soon as I heard this dozens of questions started popping in my head. The key one being would the Space-Spawn gods be subject to your 'all things are true' policy? If so then the implications are mind boggling, I mean you said alien magic would be a sophisticated concept but alien gods that's really something. Now on with the questions…
1) Do the Space-Spawn gods actually exist?
2) If so did they come into existence before or after the Space-Spawn themselves?
3) What's their opinion of the war?
4) What's their opinion of each other?
5) If you decide to use them, do you predict any S&P problems? I mean Anubis and Odin are okay cause they are real mythological figures (hey I made an oxymoron!) and you can claim educational value but I doubt the folks who accuse Gargoyles of promoting devil-worship will take too kindly to the Space-Spawn gods.
Greg responds...
1. I'm not saying at this time.
2. The legends say before. That's all I will say now.
3. I'm not granting the premise of the question, though I'm not disputing it either.
4. In the legends, they are adversaries.
5. I don't understand why I would have any S&P problems creating two fictional gods for a fictional alien race. (You do know that the Space-Spawn are fictional, right?)
WereFox writes...
Greg
In your mind, when Demona fell from the castle at the end of Awakenings 5 what happened to her? Did she manage to recover from her tumbling fall beneath the falling masonry and glide away? Or did she pancake into the pavement, shattering every bone in her body, and then recover a la her link with MacBeth?
Greg responds...
The former.
AZRAEL writes...
HELLO GREG!!!!! I WRITE TO YOU FROM PERU, IN SOUTHAMERICA!!!!!! AND I REQUEST TO YOU THAT EXCUSE MY WRONGS,SINCE MY NATIVE LANGUAGE IS NOT THE ENGLISH. MY QUESTION IS: COULD YOU TELL ME MORE ABOUT THE FINAL EPISODES OF "ROUGHNECKS"?
SERIE WAS AIRED HERE WHIT VERY HIGH AUDIENCE RATINGS, BUT THERE WAS NOT THE FINAL EPISODES. ABOUT THE END OF THE WAR AGAINST THE BUGS. I WANT TO KNOW MORE ABOUT IT!!!!!!!
PLEASE, GREG, ANSWER ME,SINCE I WRITE YOU FROM PERU (VEEEEEEEEEERY FAR).
THANS AND GOOD LUCK, GREG!!!!!!!!!!!!
Greg responds...
Sony had an order for 40 original episodes. And we wrote all 40. And we voice recorded all 40.
But at some point -- I think because one of the CGI studios declared bankruptcy, taking with it a chunk of Sony's budget -- Sony decided that to save money on the order of 40, they'd have to cut four episodes and replace them with four clip shows.
By that time, pre-production was pretty far along. Since this was a money-saving solution (not a creative one) in the first place, it made budgetary sense to shelf the episodes that had the least work done on them. So the last four episodes were shelved. Then someone realized that the episode depicting the destruction of Buenos Aires would be extremely expensive to produce. So that one got shelved and they put the fourth to last episode back into the pipeline.
The_Souldier writes...
I didn't come across this anywhere in the archives so, how did you decide to name your cat Iggy? I'm really just curious, I can't really say it's a stupid name or anythig, because here we have a cat we call Mr. Cat, a cat named Monkey, and a lizard we simply call Stinky.
Greg responds...
Iggy is short for Igthorn, as in Duke Igthorn from the Gummy Bears tv series. The Dukey was always a favorite of mine.
Another favorite was Bigtime Beagle from DuckTales, and our other cat is named Bigtime.
Our dog is Norman, named after Norman from Marsupilami. Not sure he was one of our favorites, but we wanted to use a Disney villain name, and no other name fit our dog.
Lacy writes...
Hi, actually this is more of a general ramblin fan letter than a question.
I love gargoyals, and even after all this time I still do.
OH! Though one good question just came to mind (and likely has been asked a million times) Do you plan on ever re-releasing gargoyals as they were in the first two seasons? (not that stupid farce that ABC mangled.) Do you have to wait for any wavers of contracts or has Disney totally bought out all rights to the show so that we never have hopes of seeing it anywere unless they deside to grace us with it (like that would ever happen)
I also noticed that Aladdin the series was in your list of series you did, that was surprising to me, but then again not really, now that I think about it the series had alot of the same feel as gargoyals. (GO MOZENRATH! chee, I'm such a sap for the bad boys)
Gargoyals still holds a strong place in my heart and was definately the first series I ever did fan art, as well as stories about. (Hey I can read,just said I did it, not giving nothing here, nor do I want to. They just fun stuff for me personally anyway.)
Puck is definately my favorite charactor, and it was a huge disapointment to me, my little sister and our circle of friends who are all fans when he wasnt even given an apearence in that chronicals series. (well other than as Owen) So much got crammed and cliche'd in that series, BLEH gotta get off it >.<
Anyway, love the details and developement of the charactors, they all were so believeable and real. The series touched imagination and feeling as no show has, it wsn't just animation as america treats it, but a true series, like Babyalon 5 and StarTrek series. It is the exsample I use most often in arguements for animation used as another form of filming rather than just entertainment for children.
I really hope to see more someday.
OH!!!! End question!!! Did you ever write out how you planned the series to go? If so, did you ever put them to the web? If so... CAN I SEE?!!!!!
Greg responds...
I'm glad you liked the show.
I worked on developing Aladdin for television -- though that wasn't exactly rocket science -- but had nothing to with its production. I'm sorry if that was unclear.
Disney ALWAYS owned Gargoyles outright. Bringing it back is not up to me, though I'd like to and I continue to hold out some hope.
I have a master plan and tons of ideas in my head, going forward and backward. A fraction of that plan is on the web, and can be accessed by checking the ASK GREG FAQ.
Zarok writes...
Here is a question that's being rolling around in my head for a while now. Considering your 'all things are true' policy have you given any thought to how you would approach the 'life after death' aspects of the mythologies you've introduced? I mean did slain Viking warriors really join Odin in Valhalla or mummified Pharaohs join Anubis beyond the western horizon? How would this work in relation to Oberons non-interference edict? I'm not asking you to give me the Gargoyles version of every afterlife myth in existence or even to set out anything in stone, I just want your perspective on the subject that I've been pondering.
Greg responds...
My gut reaction, based on Dante as much as anything, is that people go where their souls truly want to go. Since it's voluntary, though not necessarily consciously so, there's no conflict with Oberon's edict.
Anonymous writes...
Is the culture of the N'kai monolithic like that of most alien races in scifi?
Greg responds...
As you've probably noticed, I try as much as possible to avoid monolithic cultures. I don't believe they exist in real life, so I try to keep the Gargoyles Universe as multi-lithic as possible.
Same would hold true for the Nokkar's people.
"Multi-lithic". I like that.
Liz writes...
what is the name of the episode when broadway shoots elisa?and why?
Greg responds...
It's called "Deadly Force". And the reason it's called "Deadly Force" is because that's the title that Michael Reaves picked out, based on the technical/legal term.
Aaron writes...
Hi Greg. Long-winded question, so bear with me.
One of the recurring themes of Western story-telling is that those who "tamper in God's domain", to borrow a phrase, will be struck down for their hubris. After the enterance of Frankenstein into our collective consciousness, one of the "rules" for Western literature is that Frankenstein must always be destroyed by his monster, for his arrogance in playing god.
The reason I bring this up, is that Xanatos is a man who seems to like playing god. And he has left a trail of monsters in his wake.
I'll ignore Jackal, Hyena, and Wolf for the purposes of this question, since it could be argued that they were already monsters who merely allowed their exteriors to be altered to match their true natures. (Although, it could also be argued that those three were tempted by David and his offers of power and vengeance, but at the end of the day, I still think they all damned themselves willingly)
I'd go so far as to even ignore the mutates, because even though they become monsterous looking, they really don't fit the bill as "monsters". They're just ordinary people who, by virtue of making some bad character judgements, find themselves with fur and wings. (Although it probably doesn't help Xanatos' karma any)
But even ignoring those two examples, you still have...
1. Coldstone. Such an obvious Frankenstein archtype that you joked about it. (The "It's alive! ALLLLLLLIVE!" sequence remains one of my favorites from the whole show) Of course, you could lay Coldstone at least partially at Demona's feet as well, so we'll move on.
2. Thailog. Grown in a lab, created with a mixture of different people, (Goliath's body and temper, Xanatos' mind and ethics, Sevarius'... libedo? Whatever accounts for Delilah) he turns almost immediately on his "fathers" You could call Thailog Sevarius' creature rather then Xanatos' except that David is the force behind his creation, and that Anton, for all his mad scientist posturing, could be seen as no more then a lab assistant, an Igor to David's Dr. Frankenstein.
3. The Coyote robot series. Xanatos' most personal "creature", the one to whom he gave his face (well, half of it) and voice. Loyal (?) to David for now, but unless forming the Ultrapack is David's idea, he presumably goes indepentant eventually. That, and we know he sets his sights on galactic domination in 2198, presumably not with his creator's blessing. (Then again, I could be wrong)
4. The Matrix. Created so that David and Fox could reshape the entire planet at their whim. If that's not arrogance, I don't know what is. Admittedly, I don't think it's becoming sentient along the way was part of the plan, and it's inclusion here might be a bit of a stretch, but I thought it was an example of Xanatos' hubris, if nothing else.
So, I guess, after all that lead up, my question is this: Would the pattern hold true? Would one (or all) of Xanatos' "creatures" come back to bite him in the ass later? As Elisa said "I wouldn't want Xanatos' karma."
There is a second part to this question, but I'll submit it separately, in case it's viewed as an idea.
Greg responds...
Well, for starters, I'd argue your premise. Victor Frankenstein's life was certainly decimated by the monster he created and abandoned -- but he survived the experience, sadder and hopefully wiser.
Moreover, it was the abandonment that was his true sin in Mary Shelley's original work. The creation was certainly hybris. But Shelley is pretty darn clear that she viewed the abandonment as worse. And I tend to agree. It's nature vs. nurture. The creature wasn't created evil. He was driven to it.
As to X's karma and whether it will all come back to bite him in the ass, I think the answer is clearly yes. But I really see it as a separate question. That is, it is a karma question more than simply a playing god question. That's one element. But only one. After all, one might argue that David and Fox were playing god by bringing Alexander into the world. But I wouldn't argue that. And I'm sure that's not what you had in mind.
So let's go through the numbers.
I tend to agree that Wolf, Hyena and Jackal built their own cages. And for the record, seem quite happy to live in them.
The Mutates seem to be following the same path as the gargoyles themselves. That is to say, that Xanatos woke the gargoyles, and has often suffered for it since. He then turned these four humans into mutates, and has had to suffer a bit (though admittedly not much) for that. It will be interesting to see Talon's post-Hunter's Moon reaction to Goliath and Co. moving back into the Castle. But the larger truth is that Talon, Maggie and Claw are making lives for themselves.
1. Coldstone. Well, yeah, duh. This is our Frankenstein's monster. But as with most things, Xanatos is too smart to truly follow in Victor's footsteps. He helps create the creature -- and certainly uses it -- but he never simply abandons it. And he also tries to balance (or bury) the Karmic scales, by helping out with Coldstone's Multiple Personality Disorder and by building Coldsteel and Coldfire.
2. Thailog. Here's the big threat, frankly. A guy with something to prove and three fathers to prove it all to. I think Xanatos hasn't seen the last of Thailog. One could argue that Thailog is the only guy to ever beat Xanatos at his own game (in Double Jeopardy). So the hybris of creating him has already bitten X's ass. But I doubt Thailog is through.
3. Coyote... I just don't want to reveal too much on this right now. Sorry.
4. I really think you have to chalk Matrix up to Fox's hybris (and competitive spirit) rather than to David's. She was certainly having the Matrix engineered for her and her man, but that doesn't mean that Xanatos was behind it. That would assume that she cannot operate independently. And I sure as heck wouldn't assume that about her.
So the short answer: yes. But it's all very nuanced.
Liz writes...
Why does Demona hate humans?
Greg responds...
If the series hasn't answered that question, than I truly have nothing to add.
Stuff...
ASK GREG isn't exactly a BLOG. I'm not always sure what's appropriate to put here...
For example, I had a weird thought last night. It occured to me that I'm old enough (based on my sexual history) to have a 22-year-old child. (My actual kids are 9 and 6.) That freaked me out. But I'm not sure it's appropriate for this forum. Still -- I guess it doesn't hurt to be advocating protected sex over unprotected sex, right?
(I know that's gonna come back and bite me on the ass. I just know it.)
Saw RETURN OF THE KING. And I really, really liked it, although I didn't really, really like the first hour. Overall, I enjoyed the first two movies more, but don't get me wrong. I'm not comparing this to the awful Return of the Jedi, at all. I still loved it, and I can't wait to see the extended version.
I do wish there had been some mention of what the dwarves were up to. And some indication of where the elves went who fought at Helm's Deep. How come they didn't lend a hand in Gondor? Even a line of dialogue would have been helpful to me.
The movie that actually caught me by surprise was PETER PAN. I really liked it a lot. It's so melancholy and bittersweet. Peter looked terrific (and was about 50/50 on the acting). Some things may have been a bit on the head, but it's Neverland, not Subtletyland. Just to be clear, I'm not saying it's a better movie than LOTR, but I thought the reviews of Pan were way harsh.
HATED CHEAPER BY THE DOZEN. But there was one VERY FUNNY scene in it when the twins confessed. Otherwise, as a dad, I thought the message it sent was EXTREMELY dubious -- and extremely unrealistic.
Had a great vacation. Hope you all are having a happy new year.
Zarok writes...
I meant "religion" not "religio". (I am such an idiot).
Greg responds...
I got that. But thanks for attempting to correct. It is appreciated.
Zarok writes...
What kind of religio do the Space-Spawn have?
Greg responds...
I have not explored this yet.
SHEENA LOUISE COLLYAR writes...
GREG WERE CAN I FIND PICTURES AT OF GAGOYLES??????!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Greg responds...
Try the Station 8 comment room.
The Soulider writes...
In "The Mirror," why did Elisa get her shoes back and none of the other humans-turned-gargoyles get theirs back when the were changed back into humans? And where *did* Elisa'a Jacket go?
Greg responds...
I don't recall everyone else using/losing shoes. I'd have to watch it again. Maybe the other people you saw all transformed before they had their shoes on in the first place? Never put them on, so never got them back.
As for Elisa's jacket... I don't know. I've never known the answer to that one. Magic and Puck's personal aesthetic, perhaps.
Zarok writes...
Is the Egyptian desert god Seth still alive in the Gargoyles Universe? According to Egyptian mythology, he died at some point before recorded history but that didn't stop some Egyptians from worshipping him. Then again worshipping dead guys wasn't unusual back then. I'm just curious about Seth's status in gargoyles. I would like to thank you for your time.
Greg responds...
I have some notions about Set, but he's pretty far down my list of priorities. He's basically a Trickster figure (though a nastier one), and I already have four of those to play with.
Siren writes...
When Titania whispered to Fox, is visibly irked Fox. I don't even think it was anything as big as you say it is. Titania probably just told her "That shirt makes you look fat", it probably has nothing to do with the future of Gargoyles and that's why you feel we all might be disappointed. This was all just part of your Master Plan to keep us guessing and coming back, wasn't it?!
(So concludes Siren feeble attempt at irking Greg to come out with it already) ;)
Greg responds...
No. Not originally, anyway. It's you guys who have built it up and intimidated me into silence, frankly.