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I looked and I couldn't find this question so I thought I ask: Why are you interested writing about secret societies like the Light or the Illuminati?
I'm interested in writing about most everything.
In "Revelations," Martin Hacker told Matt "Your job was to get him (Goliath) there (to the Hotel Cabal). It's not your fault if old Mace couldn't hold him." In fact, since Matt gave Goliath the key and physically stopped Mace from shooting Goliath, it was indeed Matt's fault that old Mace couldn't hold him.
Was Martin unaware of Matt's involvement in Goliath's breakout, or was he deliberately lying to Matt?
For now, that's up to your interpretation. Matt assumes that no one but Goliath knows about Matt's complicity. Is he right?
Okay so I have to be REALLY careful about how I ask this question. If you cant understand my meaning then its probably my own fault and for that I'm sorry, but I thought this was a very interesting concept. It's about xanatos's letter to himself.
Here we go. So in Vows, Xanatos travels back in time and sends himself the coin that he will eventually use to amass his fortune. He also sends a letter that is to be delivered to himself twenty years after the coin which explains how he has to get the coin, which as he said in the episode he received that very letter a week before the wedding. So I guess the best way I can phrase this is, is that the EXACT same letter and by same I mean the same piece of paper. The way I see it that letter is over a thousand years old and must be pretty worn(unless of course it was carefully preserved). So when xanatos gets the letter, does he just send back the same one he got or copy the information on a new piece of paper and send that back instead? If its the first one then that piece of paper must keep accumulating age to it. He sends it once, its over a thousand years old. He sends it a second time, its another thousand years old, and so on. So the piece of paper could eventually become so worn that it would be either unreadable or destroyed. So does xanatos just make a new letter every time he gets it or send back the one he received? PS loved rain of ghosts, hope you get to make all nine books.
It was carefully preserved by the Illuminati.
In the past, he wrote the original. He doesn't reuse it.
Glad you liked Rain! If you haven't already, could you do me a favor and write up a review on Amazon?
So, hoping I catch you in the mood...
As of "Phoenix" what are Fiona Canmore and Falstaff's Illuminati numbers?
SPOILER REQUEST. NO COMMENT.
After "Revelations" do Elisa and the gargoyles now believe in the existence of the Illuminati?
Are the jewels that Mace Malone and Dominic Dracon heisted together currently being kept in the treasury of Eastcheap Isle?
Probably - unless they were sold.
In "Revelations", Mace Malone managed to get Goliath into the Hotel Cabal. The episode made it clear that the hotel (and Mace as it's caretaker) existed to extract information from individuals and Mace specifically told Goliath that he wanted answers from him.
I'm curious, what exactly did the Illuminati want to know so badly that Goliath knew? The existence of the Manhattan Clan and their link to Elisa was provided to them by Xanatos. If they wanted more of their backstory and how and why gargoyles from 10th Century Scotland ended up in 1995 Manhattan, it seems it would've been easy enough to simply ask Xanatos for that information, assuming Xanatos hadn't already told them that stuff as well. And the existence, purpose and nature of gargoyles in general hardly seems like something the Society wouldn't already be aware of. So what else is there? What else did the Illuminati think or know that Goliath knew that was so important that it would need to be forced out of him?
I imagine this question is just begging for a "SPOILER REQUEST. NO COMMENT.", but I thought I'd ask just in cause I've missed something or you were feeling generous.
In any case, thanks.
"SPOILER REQUEST. NO COMMENT."
1. Does John Castaway know his Aunt Fiona is an Illuminatus?
2. On your timeline you wrote that the Illuminati approached the Canmores seeking an alliance and Jason turned them down:
Was this Fiona?
1. SPOILER REQUEST. NO COMMENT.
2. SPOILER REQUEST. NO COMMENT.
Did Matt ever tell Elisa that he was a member of the Illuminate? I ask because in the episode Revelations Matt says that it didnât pay to keep Elisa in the dark about things (speaking about the incident with the Dracons in The Silver Falcon). After going on and on about how they should trust each other in the episode Revelations, it would seem contradictory of what Matt had just been through to not tell Elisa. But then, maybe he has his reasons to keep it a secret. Care to shed some light on the subject?
Thank you for your time and all that you do,
I do not care to shed light on the subject.
Among the objects in the Illuminati's treasury on Eastcheap Island was a shield (medieval, by the shape of it) with a picture of a swan on it. Was this your idea, or Karine's when she drew the page?
Karine's, I believe.
One detail about the Illuminati's immense treasure in "Losers" caught my eye; amid all these ancient artworks and historical artifacts stands what appears to be an ordinary everyday lamp. Was including it in that scene your idea or Karine's?
Karine's. Though I won't confirm or deny it's ordinariness.
Xanatos, Matt Bluestone, Thailog and John Castaway all became members of the Illuminati in fairly quick succession, but we are only told of one opening with the death of Mace Malone. With so many Illuminatus being nearly immortal, it seems odd that there would be 4 open positions within a few months.
1. Does the Illuminati always have 666 members or do they have 666 positions, but not all positions are necessarily filled all the time?
2. If they do have 666 filled position at all times, then who died to make room for Xanatos, Thailog, and Castaway? Iâm assuming here the Bluestone replace Malone.
Your premise is incorrect, certainly with regards to Xanatos.
1. Obviously. How could they be?
2. Seriously? Did you REALLY think I'd answer this?
1. Were any of the Falstaff's Band of Thieves members Illuminati or are they just minions or henchmen?
2. If they are members of the Illuminati, what is the rank of:
A. Falstaff (John Oldcastle)?
C. Mistress Quickly?
3. What's the real name of:
B. Mistress Quickly?
4. Did Dingo know any of the Band of Thieves besides Falstaff and Pistol?
5. Why did John Oldcastle (Falstaff) strangle Dingo's mom?
6. What did the Redemption Squad plan on doing with Mistress Quickly?
1. Not saying.
2. Not saying.
3. Not saying.
5. Not saying.
6. Not saying.
Since you said to ask these questions here,
What are Falstaff and Fiona Canmore's Illuminati numbers?
Full Gathering journal coming soon, I promise.
Did I? Not revealing that at this time.
Hello Again Greg, i have a some questions about Arthur Pendragon
1) What class of inmortality have Arthur?, a really long live or is he Age Stuck like Macbet and Demona? or at least have some way of Inmortality?
2) And if he is Inmortal, Who made him Inmortal? this one feel free to don`t answer XP
3) He knows about the Illuminaty?
1. Now that he's awake again, he's aging normally. He's not immortal; he was just in a form of suspended animation (pun intended) for a long time.
2. See above.
G2009 Radio Play - Act Three
Norman Osborn was a fool. So obsessed with the power of science, he kept the Crown of Thorns in this vault as if it was just another souvenir â" albeit an expensive one â" to hang upon his wall. But with the Crown and the Spear of Destiny together, I now have the power to force all of humanity to its knees.
These are Christian icons, Demona. Not every human being is a Christian.
Not every human being speaks Latin, but that didnât stop me from using a Latin spell to turn a city-full of humans to stone. The magic I wield is potent beyond measure. Mine is the Kingdom and the Power and the Glory. No human may resist. No human will be spared. None will be spared who oppose me. Just look at this foolâ¦
Her name is Obsidiana.
Of course it is. For she wears the mystic Obsidian pendant fashioned by human sorcerers. Even that is enough to put her in my thrall. She has relinquished her gargoyle birthright.
I have relinquished nothing.
Demona waves the Spear of Destiny, and Electro rises and blasts Goliath back into the wall.
Yes, Iâm surprised youâre unaffectedâ¦ since you reek of humanity. The stink of your human whore is in your hair, on your lips, everywhere. And nothing in this world will give me more pleasure, Goliath, than watching your detective on her knees to me, as she draws her service revolver and thanks me with tears of joy in her eyesâ¦ before gratefully blowing out her own brains.
That will never be.
No? My power expands with every second. I doubt sheâs far away.
You will not harm Elisa.
Goliath advances on Demona. Electro blasts away, but Goliath will not be stoppedâ¦
No one ever said you werenât persistent, Goliath. But what do you hope to gain?
(through gritted teeth)
I will turn these forces back upon you.
Impossible. I am the last true gargoyle left on this world. The Crownâs magicks cannot touch me.
So you believe. But I am not the only one who reeks of humanity. Am Iâ¦ Dominique?!
Goliath grasps the crown. The thorns bite into his hands, drawing blood. They struggle for control of the immense powerâ¦
691. GOLIATH, DEMONA
<roaring to the heavens>
Goliathâs intervention â" and his complete immunity to the Crownâs effects â" creates the smallest of fluctuation in Demonaâs control. In a haze, Spider-Man lifts his armâ¦
He shoots off a web, yanking the bloody crown from Demonaâs head.
There is a massive explosion of mystic energy and light! Demona, Goliath and Electro collapse.
The Spearâ¦ the Crownâ¦
Gone. I think theyâ¦ blew up. Calypsoâs gone too. But Iâm betting thatâs just a talent of hers. And Iâd guess sheâs taken Kraven and the pussycat with her.
But the Big Badâs still hereâ¦
Leaving behind, as always, nothing but a handful of thornsâ¦
Goliath, Spider-Man and Demona sit. Jonah, Elisa, Matt and George STAND.
While Goliath helps Obsidiana, Spidey webs up Demona, Electro and Ock. In the outer vault, Zafiro and the Trio recover, finding only an unconscious and de-venomed Eddie Brock. Outside, the bad guys have all been beaten. Goblin and Vulture, their tech badly damaged, barely manage to fly away. Carnage and Jupiter are once again Cletus and John.
Iâm here, Johnny. Your old Popâs hereâ¦
Call an ambulance, Elisa. Old Man Dracon said something about seeing a light. Then he collapsed. A stroke or something. Iâve been giving him C.P.R.
Mattâ¦ Matt! You can stop. Stop. Heâs gone.
Youâre gargoyles are flying off, Detective.
Really? Not sure I see âem myself. But is that Spidey web-slinging away?
You think? I must have missed him?
Are you all blind?! Theyâre right over there!
714. GEORGE, MATT, ELISA (UNISON)
Oh, give it a rest, Margotâ¦
Elisa, Matt, George, Margot and Jonah sit. Peter, May, Harry and Gwen STAND.
Back at the busâ¦
Iâm back. And not a single decent picture to show for my efforts.
Well, you tried your best, Peter. Iâm sure Mr. Jameson will appreciate that.
Oh, yeah. Heâs a sweetheart that way.
Emily Osborn watches as her son finally emerges from the bathroom.
Hey, Gwen. I feel much better.
Harry, Gwen, Peter and May sit. Jonah and Robbie STAND.
Later that night, at The Bugleâ¦
Whaddayou mean I canât publish it?! How else can I make them all pay for what they did to Johnny!
You canât publish because the authorities refuse to comment. We have no pictures or statements to corroborate a story that includes gargoyles, a dead Green Goblin and everything except the kitchen sink. No one will believe it. I was there, and I donât believe it! Print this, Jonah, and The Bugle becomes the next Daily Tattler.
Ms. Brant, call the bomb squad. BECAUSE IâM ABOUT TO EXPLODE!!
Jonah and Robbie sit. Gwen, Peter, Kong, Curt, Harry, EMILY OSBORN and Mary Jane STAND.
Later still, aboard OsCorpâs private jet en route to Miamiâ¦
I still canât believe we ran into you in the airport parking lot, Doctor Connors.
Yeah, and weâre so sorry you got mugged.
Dude, they took your shoes?! Thatâs hilarious! <laughs>
Yes, well, I just really appreciate the ride back to Floridaâ¦
Anytime, Doctor C. Anytime.
Harry, could I have a momentâ¦ in your fatherâs office?
Uh, sure, Mom.
Curt, Kong and Gwen sit.
734. MARY JANE
736. MARY JANE
Tiny. Cute enough, but itâs like talking to a tree stump.
Tried to warn you.
738. MARY JANE
Just say weâll spend the week as a threesome, okay, Tiger.
740. MARY JANE
Not that kind of threesome.
Mary Jane and Peter sit.
Meanwhile, Harry follows his mother Emily into the jetâs private office.
I know you were playing at being the Goblin, Harry.
What?! Mom, thatâs crazy! I was in the bathroomâ¦
Donât lie to me, baby. You hired the worst chauffer in the city to delay our progress. You had a secret hatch installed in the bus bathroom, so you could slip in and out undetected. And you left a pre-recorded âvomit tapeâ with voice recognition software. All very impressive for a sixteen-year-old. But you need to understandâ¦ the Green Goblin is not what your father wanted for you.
I have no idea what Dad wanted for meâ¦
Then let him tell youâ¦
She slips a DVD into the computer and Norman Osborn appears on screenâ¦
NORMAN OSBORN STANDS.
Harry, my son. If you are watching this, then I am dead. And I have instructionsâ¦
Norman, Emily and Harry sit. Big Man, Blackie and SHARI STAND.
Meanwhile at the Big Manâs office, he and Blackie Gaxton are visited by Shari, a young woman wearing a pendant depicting an eye atop a pyramidâ¦
750. BIG MAN
Nine. Any problems?
753. BIG MAN
Not particularly. Ms. Destine was ready to believe I could find Dracon and the others useful.
And that faux Goblin was happy to believe Iâd been fooled into thinking he was the real thing.
Blackie removes his false face, revealing that he is actually the Chameleon in disguise.
Just as he was happy to believe I was the real Blackie Gaxton. But Iâm still not sure why the Society wanted all thisâ¦?
Isnât it enough to know the Illuminati appreciates your efforts?
CHAMELEON and Big Man sit. THAILOG, BRENTWOOD, Homunculus #1, Homunculus #2 And Homunculus #3 STAND.
Shari leaves Lincolnâs office and pulls out her cellphoneâ¦
Dial Nightstone Unlimited.
The Spear? The Crown?
Waiting for you to send to Duval.
Brentwood capture little robot. Use it to control other little robots. When bright light shine, robots take spear and crown.
What should we do with the Homunculi?
Set them free. Maybe theyâll get their own series some day.
767. HOMUNCULUS #1
Free, free, set them freeâ¦
768. HOMUNCULUS #2
On basic cable and DVDâ¦
769. HOMUNCULUS #3
Homunculus #3, Homunculus #2, Homunculus #1, Shari, Thailog and Brentwood sit. Elisa and Goliath STAND.
At the castle, Elisaâs cell rings.
Mazaâ¦ Yeah, Captain Stacy said you might call. Sure, heâs right here.
She hands the phone to Goliath, who doesnât quite know how to hold it. She takes it back and puts the call on speaker.
Hey, Goliath. Itâs your Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man.
You protect yourâ¦ neighborhood.
Just like you do the super-hero thing without the tights.
Spider-Man, I think this is the beginning of a beautiful friendship.
Hey, I was just gonna say that. You saw that movie too?
God, I love youâ¦ <kiss>
Elisa, Goliath and Spider-Man sit. Kafka STANDS.
And finally â" yes, finally â" we end where we began. In the offices of Dr. Ashley Kafka at Ravencroft. Sheâs on the phone to her Board of Directors.
After all that tsuris, little has changed. Otto and Eddie are still disassociative. Max still needs a cure, and John still wants power. Cletus? He just keeps repeating, âI got a taste now,â over and over. Yes, we lost Dominic, Iâm afraid. But we do have a new patientâ¦
783. KAFKA (CONT)
Just wait until the sun goes downâ¦
Dominique and Kafka sit.
NEXT: I finally get back to answering questions...
Just as a brief FYI, in the May 2009 issue of Empire Magazine, on page 73 in an article about the movie "Angels and Demons", there's the following blurb:
"Unsurprisingly, the Illuminati often crop up as Hollywood baddies. As well as Angels & Demons, Lara Croft: Tomb Raider and TV cartoon Gargoyles feature the Illuminati, or Illuminati-associated wonks, as villains."
I just thought it was cool that they mentioned Gargoyles and made that connection.
I was recently rereading Roger Lancelyn Green's retelling of the Arthurian cycle (it was the January 2009 book for an Arthurian book club that I recently joined), and found this passage at the end of the section on the Quest for the Holy Grail:
"But when the last battle had been fought and the realm of Logres was no more, Percivale's kingdom made still a little light in the darkness of a Britain conquered and laid waste by the barbarians." (p. 248 of the old Puffin Books edition I bought as a boy).
Was this passage the inspiration (or at least, *an* inspiration) for your idea of Percival/Duval founding the Illuminati?
What was Mace Malone's number in the Society?
Mace Malone was somewhere in the high 20s before he died.
Just out of curiosity, the Norman Ambassador in "Vows." What was his Illuminati ranking?
If I told you, I'd have to kill you. (Can't believe I've resorted to using that old chestnut.)
I've always been wondering, is the illuminati of great interest to you? Did you ever have to explain or get those references approved by Disney? Not that it's bad, it just seems to be pretty deep for a y7 cartoon.
"Disney" never gave us any trouble over that. And I don't think the way we've handled it is all that depthful... or no more so than everything else. Kids get it well enough, if that's what you mean.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
In Avalon, Angela, Gabriel, Ophelia, Boudicca and thirty-two other gargoyles and gargoyle beasts hatch out of their eggs.
Mace disappears with a fortune in jewels to become a full-time operative for the Illuminati. He writes a letter to Dominic Dracon, taunting him with false clues about the location of the jewels.
From around the globe, human heads of state and all twelve Gargoyle Clan Leaders come to Queen Florence Island for the hatching. The Space-Spawn attacks, abducting the gargoyle eggs and the human and gargoyle leaders, including U.N. Secretary General Alexander Fox Xanatos IV. And in Antarctica, Earth's Master Matrix Computer is stolen. The Space-Spawn invasion has begun.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
Together, Matt Bluestone and Goliath turn the tables on Mace Malone, trapping him in the Hotel Cabal. Later that morning, Martin Hacker reveals he's been a member of the Illuminati all along. He welcomes Matt into the Society as a new member.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
Quincy Hemings becomes White House Chief Steward.
Matt finds and confronts Mace Malone at Pine Lawn Cemetery. Malone offers Matt an Illuminati membership on the condition that he pass a loyalty test. As a show of good faith, Malone tells Matt about the gargoyles and Elisa's involvement with them. Matt stews about the information for most of the night, i.e. for most of his shift with Elisa. The ghosts of Hakon and the Captain hear Tom talking to himself. They discover that Goliath is possibly still alive. Tom returns to Avalon to discuss this latest news with the Magus and Princess Katharine.
In issue #3 of the "Gargoyles" comic book series, we first saw Illuminati members greeting each other with the words "Thirty-six." "Thirty-two." This got a lot of attention from the readers, of course, and led to many speculations over what the significance of those two numbers were. Then, in #5, we learned their significance: they were the ranks of the Illuminati members in question.
Have you ever regretted revealing the answer to that new mystery of the Gargoyles Universe so quickly, just two issues later? Or do you feel happy about the pacing with which you resolved that issue?
I'm pretty happy with it.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
Using the Phoenix Gate, Goliath, Demona, David Xanatos, Petros Xanatos and Fox come back in time from the year 1995. Demona immediately uses the Gate to disappear again. Xanatos saves the life of Princess Elena of Normandy. He is rewarded with a coin, which he gives to the Norman Ambassador, a fellow member of the Illuminati Society. The 1995 Goliath encounters the 975 Hudson. The 975 Demona is studying under the Archmage as his apprentice. He instructs her to steal the Phoenix Gate from Princess Elena, which she does. But then she is confronted by the 1995 Demona and Goliath. After a brief trip for all three to 994, the 975 Demona returns them to her time and winds up on the outs with the Archmage. She breaks the Phoenix Gate in two and gives half of it to the 975 Goliath at the wedding of Malcolm and Elena. Meanwhile, all the 1995 participants return to their own time.
David Xanatos receives an anonymous gift of a medieval coin worth $20 grand. It is the start of his fortune, and was actually sent to David by his 1995 counterpart, via the Illuminati Society from the year 975.
A fully-grown Thailog is released from his maturation chamber and takes up residence at the Eyrie Building. Xanatos receives a letter from the Illuminati Society. It is from himself, sent in the year 975. It explains that he sent himself the medieval coin that was the basis of all his wealth. The letter also explains how he set this all up by turning his wedding to Fox into a time travel excursion to 975.
Xanatos gets a new assignment from Quincy and the Illuminati. Hudson confirms he is a gargoyle to Robbins. Thailog and the clones fight the Manhattan Clan. During the battle, Thailog gets DNA samples from Goliath, Angela, Broadway, Lexington, Elisa, Brooklyn, Hudson and Bronx. Delilah, Malibu, Burbank and Hollywood reject Thailog, but Brentwood chooses to depart with him. Thailog gives the DNA to Sevarius and gains a new personal assistant, Shari. Doctor Sato treats Goliath. Goliath and Elisa declare their love for each other.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
In part because both he and Elisa want to conceal the gargoyles' existence, Xanatos and the D.A.'s office agree to a plea bargain. He pleads guilty to the sole count of Receiving Stolen Property. He will be sentenced to six months in county jail including time served, with every hope that the sentence will be reduced to three months for good behavior.
Xanatos confronts Fox and attempts to get the Eye back from her. She transforms in front of him and escapes. Xanatos intentionally involves Goliath and Elisa in an attempt to manipulate them into helping Fox and retrieving the Eye. Goliath quickly catches on and initially refuses to help. Later that night, the Trio, Goliath, Elisa, Vinnie, Brendan and Margot all attend a Greenwich Village Halloween block party. When the Werefox attacks, Goliath and Elisa agree to help Xanatos save Fox. Together, they manage to remove the Eye from the creature, which reverts to Fox. Goliath takes possession of the Eye.
Matt Bluestone convenes a meeting of the Gargoyle Taskforce (including himself, Elisa, Officers Morgan & Travanti, Detectives Harris & Chung, Margot Yale and Martin Hacker). Hacker has Illuminati meetings with Matt, Xanatos and Castaway. Morgan asks Elisa on a date. After turning him down and spending time with Jason in the hospital prison ward, she goes to the Eyrie. The gargoyles awaken at sunset. Fox has Halloween costumes for Brooklyn, Lexington, Broadway and Angela in anticipation of the Masque that Xanatos is throwing later that night. Elisa breaks up with Goliath. Demona recovers the Atlantean crystal that was at the heart of the Praying Gargoyle. In, the Labyrinth, Al is showing Shari around. Goliath and Brooklyn arrive. Brooklyn wants to ask Delilah to the party, but Goliath does instead. Goliath, Brooklyn and Delilah depart. Thailog attacks. Terry Chung, Billy Greene, Susan Greene and Sarah Browne trick-or-treat at Jeffrey Robbins' home, where Hudson and Bronx are visiting. Following Illuminati orders, Xanatos takes Fox and Alexander to a party at the White House. They chat with Ambassador Chung, and David meets Illuminatus Quincy Hemings. Meanwhile, Xanatos' Masque goes on without him at the Eyrie. Attendees include Judge Roebling, Doctor Sato, Brendan, Margot, Lexington, Brooklyn, Angela and Broadway. Elisa and Morgan arrive together, as do Goliath and Delilah. Thailog, having taken the male clones from the Labyrinth, arrives to collect Delilah and stabs Goliath.
Xanatos' probation expires.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
Tony Dracon, Dominic Dracon and their men are taken into custody. Martin Hacker calls to see if Matt's all right. Matt asks Hacker to find the whereabouts of Mace Malone's stepson Jack Dane. Later, Elisa helps Broadway order a new Detective costume for Halloween to replace the one destroyed during the Silver Falcon case.
At midnight, Travis Marshall begins to broadcast Nightwatch on WVRN in New York - in part as a response to the revelation that gargoyles truly exist. Vinnie Grigori and Gargoyles Taskforce leader Matt Bluestone, among others, are interviewed. Meanwhile, the gargoyles try to readjust to life back at the castle with Xanatos. Goliath departs to see Elisa. He turns to stone outside her apartment. John Castaway recruits Vinnie and other citizens into the Quarrymen. That morning, Taro, having seen Vinnie on Nightwatch, offers him a security job in Japan. Just before sunrise, Banquo and Fleance spot Goliath on Elisa's balcony. They contact Castaway who convinces Vinnie to join the hunt. Elisa manages to protect Goliath until sundown when he awakens. Goliath and Elisa flee. The Quarrymen give chase and injure Goliath's wing. Goliath and Elisa are forced to take to the rooftops of Manhattan in order to make their way back to the relative safety of the castle. At the castle, Hudson watches a special early edition of Nightwatch, with Travis Marshall moderating a debate between anti-gargoyle Assistant District Attorney Margot Yale and pro-gargoyle medieval scholar Lennox Macduff (actually Macbeth). Lex bonds with Alexander and declares a truce between himself and Fox. Mr. Duval of the Illuminati Society contacts Xanatos. David declines to take Duval's call. Angela and Broadway share they're first kiss, and Brooklyn realizes that he has no chance with Angela now. The Quarrymen pursue Elisa and Goliath to the ruined Clock Tower. Elisa and Goliath take most of the Quarrymen out one by one. But Castaway nearly succeeds in killing them both. At a crucial moment, Vinnie switches sides, giving Goliath time to recover. Castaway is forced to flee. Goliath and Elisa return to the castle.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
At the risk of his Cyberbiotics assets, Halcyon Renard determines to replace his destroyed Fortress-1 airship with a new Fortress-2 that is to be manned almost entirely by cybots.
Broadway stops by Elisa's place to pick up the Trio's Halloween costumes and to watch a video of his favorite thirties gangster movie. Captain Chavez, concerned about Bluestone, contacts Elisa, who begins investigating Matt's disappearance with Broadway (who dons his Halloween costume for the case). They stumble on Pal Joey ransacking Matt's apartment, and Broadway rescues all three of them when a bomb Joey planted explodes prematurely. Elisa keeps Matt's rendezvous with Hacker.
Robyn Canmore is arrested. Jason, who is also arrested, survives surgery but is paralyzed from the waist down. Xanatos tells Elisa that the gargoyles are welcome to stay at his castle. Just before dawn, Elisa and Goliath kiss for the first time. Jon Canmore contacts the Illuminati. In very short order, they set him up with a new identity, John Castaway, and put him in charge of the Quarrymen organization that they already had in the works. Macbeth's former minions Banquo and Fleance are hired to assist Castaway.
Okay, I did the math and considering how many levels there are in the Illuminati and the number of members in each level, there are 666 members in the Illuminati. Was that unintentional or is there some sort of Satanic thing going on in the Illuminati? If it isn't Satanic, what's the relevance of 666 in the Illuminati? If you won't reveal the relevance of 666 yet, can you at least say if the Illuminati is Satanic or not?
It was intentional, but that's all I'm going to say.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
Vinnie's driver's license is revoked when he claims gargoyles smashed his motorcycle into a wall.
Elisa receives the Trio's Halloween costumes. Matt, still in Dracon's custody, finds out that Mace's Silver Falcon letter has nothing to do with the Illuminati. But he decides that if he ever gets out of this situation alive, he'll continue his hunt for Mace.
With Lex's help Goliath tracks the Hunters to an upstate hydroelectric dam. Goliath and Broadway battle the Hunters. Elisa tries to break up the fight, but she and Jason seemingly fall off the dam to their deaths. That day, Robyn and a vengeful Jon manage to decrypt Demona's disk and learn about her plan. The Praying Gargoyle will protect her and her kind, while the Medici Tablet, the D/I-7 and the CV-1000 will blend science and sorcery to destroy humanity. Meanwhile, some distance below the dam, Jason manages to pull Elisa to safety. The night of the Hunter's Moon, Demona, the Hunters, the gargoyles, the NYPD's Gargoyles Taskforce (GTF), the press and many bystanders all converge at St. Damien's Cathedral in Manhattan. While Demona prepares her spell, the Hunters and the other gargoyles fight. Jason and Elisa arrive, trying to call a truce. But Jon refuses. He shoots at Goliath but badly injures Jason instead. Jon flees. Goliath stops Demona by destroying the Praying Gargoyle, forcing her to abandon her plan or die herself. Demona flees, but the GTF has the rest of the gargoyles dead to rights. Suddenly, Xanatos shows up and rescues them.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
Matt Bluestone contacts his former F.B.I. partner Martin Hacker and asks for his help to authenticate a Mace Malone letter. Hacker agrees. They are to meet at Cleopatra's Needle in New York on October 27th at 10pm. Matt overnights the letter to Hacker.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
David Xanatos is officially inducted into the Illuminati Society.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
Lydia Duane and Arthur Morwood-Smyth discover The Scrolls of Merlin in Wales. Elisa confronts Derek about missing the previous Sunday's family dinner. He promises to contact her if he has any trouble with Xanatos. That night, Maggie the Cat is allowed to "escape" from Gen-U-Tech Systems. Brooklyn & Broadway find her and try to help, but she is more frightened of the gargoyles than her pursuers. She is recaptured and taken back to Gen-U-Tech. Owen later informs Xanatos and Derek of unusual expense reports coming out of Gen-U-Tech.
The Illuminati make contact with the Canmore family of Hunters, seeking an alliance. Jason turns them down.
Hey there Greg :)
Are we ever going to learn more about Matt and Hacker's FBI days? Are there any good stories from that time when they were partners (relevant to the master plan or, you know, just interesting stories by themselves)?
Also, thinking about it, Matt suddenly reminded me a lot of Percival himself. Back when he was still "the pure fool". Although I wouldn't call Matt a fool, is the sort-of parallel intentional? Lot more I want to say about this but I don't want to break the "idea" rule.
So I'll just ask this last question; Hacker says in 'Revelations' "You impressed us". Who's "us"? Has Hacker himself been pushing for Matt's membership? Or did Duval personally give the go ahead? Hmm. Actually you know what, this all sounds more like "How does Illuminati membership work?" which is a whole other dealy you won't probably (and understandably, we do have the comic now. Yay ^_^ ) want to be forthcoming about. Though, if you do want to throw a little something something our way about any of that i don't think anyone will stop you ^_~
1. Since Mr. Duval isn't the head of the Illuminati as previously thought then who is the true number one? Is he a previously established character?
2. Given that the Illuminati has a membership of 666, I guess they aren't ubiquitous as previously thought, so how much control do they really have over world affairs?
3. When was Thailog recruited by them?
1. I'll tell you right here and right now in this forum. Where else would I reveal it after all? The answer is, that is the identity of #1 is >urk< >ugh< did you have to use the slow-acting poisonous blow-darts, you bastard?! You know how painful they are!!!
2. How much do you want them to have?
3. Prior to issue #5.
The Gargoyles universe Illuminati is facinating. Will we learn it's origins anytime soon?
(note: I'm not necessarily asking what they are, I'm sure you don't want to reveal that yet; I'm simply asking if the explanation is coming anytime soon- though, if there is an teaser bits of information you wish to share, bring it on)
We'll continue to learn a bit more as the months roll by...
A few questions posed after reading gargoyles comic issue #5:
1)Are there more members in the Illuminati Society ranked below David Xanatos or ranked above David Xanatos? I counted potentially 630 people ranked above. For more members to be ranked below David Xanatos than above would mean there are at least *15* more levels below David Xanatos.
2)Are there always a constant number of people at each rank? In other words, the only way to advance in rank (aside from doing more for the Society) is if somebody higher ranked than you was promoted, demoted, or died.
3)When Matt Bluestone first joined the Society during Revelations, was he at the same rank that he is as of issue #5?
4)On page 1, is that Lady Finella and Mary (the mother of Tom)?
5)Are the 8 dna samples that Thailog collected from the following characters (in order of collection): Goliath, Broadway, Angela, Lexington, Elisa Maza, Brooklyn, Bronx, and Hudson?
6)Did Thailog retreat into Nightstone Unlimited at the end?
6a)If so, does this mean the partnership between Thailog and Demona isn't over?
7)Did Thailog join the Society before Demona and Thailog went back to Manhattan?
1. As the comic stated, 36 is the lowest level.
2. In theory, but I never claimed that every slot is filled at every given moment.
4. I know who Mary is.
5. If you've read the comic carefully, you know the answer.
6a. No comment.
7. No comment.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
Matt Bluestone finds a letter from Mace Malone when a search warrant turns it up in Tony Dracon's files.
Wolf retrieves a battle-axe possessed by the spirit of his ancestor Hakon from the caves beneath Wyvern Hill, in Scotland.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
England's King, Canute of Denmark, divorces Elfgiva and marries Aethelred's widow, Queen Emma (Princess Katharine's aunt).
The United States of America declares its independence.
I don't believe these questions have been asked before.
1. How does Duval remember King Arthur's reign, what is his current (as of 1996) opinion of King Arthur and his reign?
2. As of Issue #4 of the SLG Comic, does Duval know that King Arthur has been awakened?
1. I'm not answering this at this time.
Hi Greg, I've got a question about Matt.
We know that the Illuminati partnered him with Hacker so that Hacker could keep an eye on him (they guided the FBI's hand in that decision in any case). Stick to wild goose chases and all that. But my question is WHY? Why'd they bother to do that at all? Matt couldn't have been the only person in a position of power (and by that I just mean FBI, CIA, government official types. A rung or two above a CIVILIAN with a conspiracy theory for example)to have cottoned on to the Illuminati's exsistence.
So why? Who would have bothered to listen to another conspiracy nut's nutty conspiracy theories? Why the (seemingly) special attention?
Or, if you can't answer that for whatever mysterious!Greg reason how about a "yes or no" type of question: Did the Illuminati have a specific reason for keeping an eye on Matt when they partnered him with Hacker?
If you wanna throw an old Matt fan a bone and answer in more detail that'd be awesome too :)
You're assuming that Matt's the only one who received such attention, which is not a safe assumption.
But I do think they see some potential in Matt. Why else make him a member?
From what I can gather from the timeline, it appears that Matt Bluestone joins the Illuminati sometime around Nov/Dec 1995. Do you have an exact date for him at this time?
Also, what was the date that Xanatos joined the Illuminati? Thank you for your time.
Have patience. Both dates will be revealed by ASK GREG's "This date in Gargoyles history" feature when the time comes...
In "Revelations" we learned that by joining the Illuminati they get good dental care. So the question I'm asking you is this: What other benefits are there to joining the Illuminati? How about the Quarrymen?
1. You'lll have to wait and see.
2. How about 'em!
Here's my 3rd question about Matt:
3) Was it a good or a bad experience that led him to wanting to find out more about the Illuminate? Or did he just wake up one day and figured he needed to look for them?
Thank you for your time and patience.
3. I'm not revealing that now.
Again, in case the 1st question was erased, I keep trying to ask these questions about Matt, but they aren't going through, so now I'm sending them in 1 at a time to find out which one(s) are the reason for them not getting to you. Here's the 2nd question about Matt:
2) How old was he when he decided to start looking for ways to prove the Illuminate exist?
Thank you in advance for your answer and your time.
2. I'm not revealing that now, but you know it was a least as far back as when he was an FBI agent.
Okay, for some reason every time I send a certain set of questions in, they get taken out. I don't know what is wrong with them, so I'll send in each question by themselves so I can figure out which one is the one that can't be put through to you. Here is the 1st of the questions. They deal with Matthew Bluestone.
1) What made Matt want to trace down the Illuminate in the first place?
Thank you for your time.
1. I'm not revealing that now.
What does the pyramid and the all seeing eye of the Illuminati represent?
What do YOU think it represents?
What is the significance of the numbers in the Illuminati greeting, "Thirty-Six" / "Thirty-Two"?
If I told you, I'd have to kill you.
I just bought my copy of Gargoyles #3 today, and very much enjoyed the continuation of the story past "Hunter's Moon" and "The Journey" at last.
There were a great many treats in it. I enjoyed Agent Hacker's return. I'd wanted to see what would happen after the revelation that he was a member of the Illuminati (especially regarding his interactions with Matt), and now we get to see some of it. Matt clearly does not trust him still (and I can't say that I blame him). What got my attention all the more was that Hacker's description of the Illuminati's agenda towards the gargoyles differed according to whom he was talking to, in such a way as leads me to suspect that he's lying all three times about what the Society *really* wants with the gargoyles. (I certainly think that he was lying about the Illuminati wanting the gargoyles wiped out; I doubt that they're that wasteful.) I liked the "Thirty-six" "Thirty-two" greetings (at first, I thought that they were some sort of "identification number" within the Society, but when Hacker used the same numbers in speaking with Xanatos and Castaway, I abandoned that idea).
I was amused that you had Elisa speaking with both Officer Morgan *and* Jason Canmore in the events leading up to her talk with Goliath; am I correct in assuming that you were deliberately teasing there everyone who'd read your remarks about the "Double Date" story at "Ask Greg"?
I'm amazed that Elisa's sitting so calmly on the battlements during her talk with Goliath (even if she's clearly too busy thinking about other matters at the time); if I was up on the top of the Eyrie Building, I wouldn't dare even approach them, but would probably be clinging onto anything solid in the middle of the tower's platform!
I smiled at Talon's cry of "Send in the Clones!" (I guess that we all knew that somebody would have to say it at some point), and the omission of Fang's name when Al was explaining the Mutates' backstory. (Too bad he wasn't there to comment on it!) And Thailog makes a great return at the very end.
Other things that stand out to me: Alex in his little gargoyle suit (very cute), Hudson planning to take Bronx somewhere else during the party (a wise decision on his part, I believe), Xanatos's mysterious invitation to the White House (I'm looking forward to seeing how that develops), the new character in the Labyrinth (or is she really new? I'd say more but the "no original ideas" rule discourages me from voicing my suspicions about her as yet), Demona retrieving the Praying Gargoyle's crystal, Brooklyn's response to Delilah, and Castaway showing himself to clearly have much more sense than his "Goliath Chronicles" counterpart.
All in all, a wonderful continuation of the story. I'm looking forward to #4.
Hacker/Illuminati. I'm glad you got that. I was a little afraid that it would read as if the LAST statement Hacker made was the true one.
Morgan/Jason. I was teasing a little (meta-fictionally), but basically when it came time to write the story, I realized I NEEDED both of them to get Elisa where I needed her to go. Again, I was worried that it still might not be convincing. But it felt pretty right to me.
dph's Review of Comic #3
Artwork is much better.
I loved the make-up of the Gargoyles Task Force, especially Matt's opening remark about their primary objective. Aside from Bluestone, Maza, and Morgan, will you tell us which precints the rest of the police are from?
Love the nice bit of continuity with Martin Hacker showing up. Why the numbers "36" and "32"?
I loved how it was Morgan who approached Elisa, but wouldn't it be a little problematic being that Elisa Maza outranks Morgan Morgan?
It's nice to finally hear about Elisa's wants for a long-term relationship really are.
I enjoyed Xanatos's conversion with Martin Hacker. More about that later, though.
I liked Elisa hinting to look around at Deliliah.
I loved the nice bit of continuity with Demona showing up.
I loved the nice way of explaining the backstory of the mutates and the clones to the new readers.
Poor Brooklyn. ;) He gets shafted by own his clan leader when looking for a date. ;)
Nice to see Hacker checking in on Castaway. If the quarrymen ever get raided, I just hope Hacker isn't caught with Castaway.
Anyways, back to one of my earlier questions. Are the Illuminati Society deliberately to manipulate the gargoyles task force, Xanatos's plans, and the quarrymen to divert attention from something even bigger going on?
Nice to see Thailog back and fully recovered.
Nice laying out of plot threads for future development.
Most are from the 23rd. Travanti's been Morgan's partner for years. (I think you first saw him in "Temptations", but don't hold me to that.)
As for the numbers, you'll just have to wait ... heh heh heh And as for the Illuminati... NO, WAIT!! STOP!! I WASN'T GOING TO TALK! DON'T SH--
Jon Castaway is backed by the Illuminati. Is he a member as well?
Issue #3 should begin to answer these questions.
A few years ago, I posted a short ramble on the Illuminati and the "Eye in the Pyramid". Of course, you only got to it a few months ago. However, right after my post, Valaine Fea added that the "E.i.t.P" is called "Annunaki", which means "All-Seeing Eye". Valaine Fea did not post anything else however, and you asked where that information comes from.
I had never heard anyone refer to the symbol as "Annunaki", but I know what the term is (it does not mean "All-Seeing Eye") and in what language. I suspect that someone in the tiny circle of people who know this stuff accidently connected the term to the symbol, since it is indeed what the symbol points to.
Annunaki is a Sumerian term (yes, it's that old). It means "the people of Anu". Again, the actual information on the topic is extensive, with many layers of meaning as well, given it's religious purpose, so I cannot give it all. A simplified (but arguable) interpretation would be "the children of God". Not humans: angels (or something) who walked around on the planet. The Bible mentions them several times, along with many other ancient sources (all of which are presumed by modern historians to be the products of overly-superstitious primitive minds).
The symbol is Egyptian in iconography, not Sumerian (it would have been the "Eye in the Ziggurat"), but there is evidence that it is a European creation (middle ages or later) intended to point back to these origins.
Thanks. This stuff fascinates me.
Happy Year 2005!!
Here's hoping this question gets answered by December 31, 2005.
1)Are the Illuminati Society really interested in capturing a gargoyle?
1a)If so, why?
Sorry, how's October of 2006. That's only ten months late, right?
Anyway, at least I'm answering 2005 questions now, finally. Felt like 2004 was never gonna end!
1. They were. Whether they still are is something you'll need to read the comic book to discover.
1a. Not telling.
How old is Martin Hacker?
In 1996, he was 44.
by the way.. "the eye in the pyramid" is called "Annunaki" ("all seeing eye"). Don´t know which language;).
Hmmm... interesting... (Where'd you learn this?)
A long time ago, you asked if anyone knew the origin of the "eye in the pyramid" symbol for the Illuminati/Masons/etc. Since I saw no update on it, I thought I would give you the short version (the long version would take several pages).
The pyramid represents knowledge, taken directly from ancient Egyptian mythology (before the whole "Pharoah's Tomb" fiction was created) but the pyramid in the symbol is truncated, representing lost/suppressed knowledge. The eye is the "All-Seeing Eye" (God) and placed in a triangle above the truncated pyramid to point out that no amount of official supression will destroy the knowledge forever, it's still out there to be rediscovered.
The second layer of interpretation is part of where the Illuminati as "bad guys" comes from: they were "enemies" of the authorities throughout history (some rare exceptions) because they had managed to retain the missing/forgotten knowledge, and the authorities (who were seen to not be wise/good enough to be given access to the knowledge/power) were jealous and either wanted the knowledge for themselves or wanted these "outlaw" groups killed, or preferably both. The official church declared them to be Satan-worshippers; these groups considered themselves to be the true believers of God and the church to be full of Satan-worshippers (or at least selfish opportunists). So, the symbol shows that they believed in God (in spite of what the authorities claimed) but also shows their own recognition that they would always be in danger from outsiders who would try to supress the "truth".
Your "grey-area" approach to Duval and the Illuminati is a great way of showing that, in spite of what we are often taught, black and white are ALSO in the eye of the beholder...
Thanks for the info. This stuff fascinates me.
When Did Xanitos become a member of the Illuminati, did the letter he sent himself have anything to do with it?(other than his wealth)P.S any fans of the show who thinks they can answer this question can write to me at firstname.lastname@example.org
Xanatos was already a member of the organization when we first met him in "Awakening, Part Two". His medieval stint may indeed have had something to do with his admittance.
1) Your rendering of the Illuminati society has grounds in fiction... from where did you take your ideas about the society?
2) and isnt it a little weird that many stories in fiction include an "all-knowing" group that controls the worls from behind the scenes (for example Tomb Raider and Honey I shrunk the Kid's The TV show, starring Peter Scolari).. DO you think there's some sort of real world society similar to the Illuminati, kinda like in the Simpson's Stonecutter's Episode?? cause i think the society does exist..
1. We had numerous sources, and we made a lot up.
2. If there is one Society running the world, they're doing a very poor job. I mean what would be there ultimate goal that one could interpolate from the current condition of the planet?
Just a question regarding Mace Malone's dental plan.
Are the dentists/orthodentists members of the Illuminati?
Don't know. But it doesn't seem necessary.
After Samson's rebellion against the space-spawn did you have plans to deal with the Illuminati's backing of the space-spawn and its consequences?
Is Renard a member of the Illuminati?
Is MacBeth or any of aliases a member of the Illuminati?
Is Owen a member of the Illuminati?
Is Anastasia Renard a member of the Illuminati?
Is Vinnie a member of the Illuminati?
Were Jason, Robyn or Jon members of the Illuminati?
The Illuminati is a SECRET society.
How you doing, Greg?
Okay, let's take a look at a hypothetical (this is my disclaimer in case you want to just stop reading now). If things had gone differently, and the show had never moved to ABC, meaning you never left, and Disney offered you 13 more episodes, but made it clear that these 13 would be the LAST 13 the show would get... how would you have approached them? Lord knows you had enough material to make another 13 just in picking up loose threads, let alone new ones such as The Quarrymen. Do you think you would have turned the whole third season into a good-bye like with "The Journey"? Would you have been more optimistic than that and ended it just like seasons one or two? Or would you have tried to wrap it up, like The Goliath Chronicles boys did with "Angels in the Night"?
I don't think life COMES TO AN END. So I would not have attempted a full-on closure tone, as "Angels" did.
I would have, most likely, done the best 13 stories in my arsenal at that time. In continuity, as before, but 13 stand-alone episodes that were the best I could come up with, starting with "The Journey" and ending with an episode (like "Reawakening", "Hunter's Moon, Part Three" and "The Journey") that contained a sense of open-ended closure. A sense that even though we're going away for a time and some amount of loose ends (though surely not all) have been tied up in bows, that life goes on.
In between Journey and that Open-Ended Closure Episode, I would have done 11 other stories that picked up on the loose ends that were screaming the loudest to be addressed. One of which, certainly would have been the Illuminati. One would have been Brooklyn. One would have been the Weird Sisters. &tc.
in "Revelations" Mace Malone tells Matt that Xanatos provided the Illuminati with some information (the gargoyles stuff)
1. did the Illuminati know that gargoyles existed before Xanatos informed them of the Manhatten Clan?
2. did the Illuminati know about the Manhatten Clan before Xanatos told them?
3. how much about the Manhatten Clan does the Illuminati know? obviously they know of their connection to Elisa Maza, but do they know more things like their names, a bit about them, their pasts?
thanx alot Greg!
1. Still existed or ever?
2. Maybe not. Though reports in the Tattler would have raised a red flag for Duval if brought to his attention.
3. Probably more than would make us comfortable.
1.How much of the modern world is Duval responsible for? Was most of it created by the Illuminati?
2.How much of the world does the Illuminati control? Do they also control all those third world countries in Africa, Asia and South America? If so are they responsible for the wars occuring in them?
1. Huh? No. (I must not understand the question.)
2. They manipulate rather than control. I'm sure they are responsible for some conflicts, but conflict for the sake of conflict wouldn't suit Duval. He has a plan and a purpose.
1/ What is the connection (if any) of the Illuminati that Percival (Duval) created in 642 and the Illuminati created by Adam Weishaupt in 1778?
2/ Was Percival present at the Battle of Camlann in 542? If not, was it because of his responsibilities as the Fisher King?
3/ Does the Illuminati have connections to the Knights Templar and the Freemasons in the gargoyles universe?
1. I'm not answering that at this time.
Why did the Illuminati support the space-spawn? I mean they were the proper rulers of the Earth. If they backed Samson wouldn't they regain control after Samson throws the space-spawn off the planet?
Well, it's complicated, but the short answer is that they backed what they thought was the winning horse.
Regarding John Castaway/Jon Canmore, how exacly did he make contact with the Illuminati?
I'm not revealing the specifics right now, though I will say that the Hunters and Illuminati have been aware of each other for quite some time.
Does Duval still remember Arthur?
You said in a chat in '97 that, "in my mind, he [Jon Canmore/Castaway] approached the Illuminati, who for their own reasons, funded the Quarrymen."
1a) How and for how long did he know that the Illuminati really existed? b) Do the other Canmores know about the Illuminati (before Robyn joins the Redemption Squad)?
2) How did he know where to find the Illuminati? I found your statement that *he* was the one to approach *them* rather interesting, as I would have assumed that it's usually the Illuminati who establish first contact with someone.
3) Does Castaway become a member of the Illuminati?
1a) I think the Canmore's have known for quite some time. The Hunters and the Illuminati may have been useful to each other from time to time.
b) I would think so. At least to some extent.
2. But this wasn't first contact. All he needs is a contact. The message would work its way up the pyramid, so to speak.
3. I don't know.
What does Merlin, Blanchefleur and Duval look like in 1997?
I think I'll reserve comment on this, since I wouldn't want to needlessly tie the hands of any artist who might someday get to draw them, should the opportunity arise. I have some definite ideas, but none I'm ready to reveal at this time.
Do the Illuminati know of all immortals(excluding oberon's children) on the Earth? If not do they know over fifty percent of them?
You gotta love questions that call for percentages, right?
Well, no actually, you don't.
How advanced is the Illuminati¡¯s tech? Beyond Xanatos¡¯s tech? Anywhere close to New Olympian tech?
There's no across the board answer to this. Different groups will be more advanced in different areas.
1.How many clans do the Illuminati know of in 1996? All ten? If not which ones do they not know about? Do they know more clans than Demona? How did they find out?
Are there any gargoyle members of the Illuminati?
2.How many of the ten gargoyle clans does Demona know of? Which ones does she not know?
I'm not answering any of the above at this time.
1.Does Xanatos know of Mr.Duval's immortality?
2.What about his identity as Sir Percival?
3.In 1996 of the eight arthurian survivors who among them know Percival is Duval?
4.Who else knows Duval's identity as Percival?
3. Two at least. No more than six.
4. I do. You seem too. Anyone else?
When did the Illuminati learn of the existence of the Americas?
Currently, I do not know.
Does Duval or the Illuminati know where Merlin is?
Did the FBI boot Matt from the burough, or was it the Illuminati, wanting to limit Matts resources into finding out about them.
I just noticed a question you answered concerning Duval/Percival. If I had not seen the two names adjacent to one another I would never have seen any potential connection. I know that the name Percival is derived from parsi - fal or "pure fool."
I have no idea what Duval means, although I now see the structural similarity in the name.
I also have absolutely no recollection of these characters from your story. I only know the names from the context of Arthurian legend.
I like fools. It bothers me that I did not see the meaning to be decoded in the name Duval before now. I shall need to go investigate it.
Perhaps you will save me from the effort? Or at least acknowledge if you intended a connection?
You mean the -val suffix? Yes, I did intend the connection.
As far as I can recall, the name Percival never occurs in the 66 episodes of Gargoyles that I was involved in. The revelation about him came from a contest we held here at ASK GREG. "Name the Arthurian Survivors". I believe Todd won that one, though I can't recall if he was the first to guess Percival.
Duval is mentioned only once in the series. In "The Journey". My last episode and the first episode of the Goliath Chronicles.
Did you draw any inspiration for the Illuminati from Vandal Savage and his Illuminati?
I'm sure all Illuminati fiction draws from similar sources.
But I don't remember Vandal Savage being connected with the Illuminati. Of course, I haven't read DC Comic Books since 1996.
Is the Illuminati still the dominant force in the future?
Still? Are they now?
How did Alex get elected to the position of Secretary General? Why would the Illuminati which controls almost everything on Earth before the Space-Spawn invasion allow the election/installation of someone who they don't approve of considering they didn't vouch for his release?
Your premise is faulty.
1a) how many heads do the space spawn have? Does it varry? b) Do the Space spawn's general appearance varry from one another? By alot?
2a) Is New Camelot still around in 2198? b) Are Arther's decendands running it or anything(I'll be really surprised if you answer THAT) c) Is it connected to Master Matrix?
3) Do the Illuminati still fund the Quarry men in 2198?
1b. To them, yes.
2a. Before or after March?
2c. Before or after March?
3. Not saying.
You once said that Duval formed the Illuminati to "make things right". As of "The Journey", does Duval feel he's achieved any degree of success? Or does he feel things have gotten worse? Or maybe a little of each?
He feels he's generally on track.
How is Matt Bluestone's relationship with the illuminati now that he joined? Did he lose of his all desire to expose them to the puplic now that he is one of them, or is he just bidding his time?
Biding. The bidding will come later.
Did Ra's al Ghul of Batman fame influence the character of Duval/Percival?
I don't know if this is true, or a part of TGC, or what, but I herd somewhere that the Quarrymen were funded by the Illuminati. Reckless gargoyle smashing dosn't seem like the kind of thing Illuminati would invest in to me. Could you tell me:
1)is this true
2)if it is, what are their motives in it?
2. Balance and need.
1.Why does the Director hate the Illuminati?
2.How does he know of it?
3.What nationality is the Director?
4.What kind of a civil servant is he?
5.Does he know of Mr.Duval?
1. Hate's a strong word.
4. A talented one.
Why would the Illuminati be the antagonists in Dark Ages? What is their interest in the civil war?
Not "the" antagonists. But the society is "an" antagonist.
They have their hands in everything.
Just in case you haven't revealed who she is yet:
1) Is Fiona a blood relative to one or more "known" characters in the Gargoyles universe? ["known" being defined as a character(s) who was/were either shown in the show or who you have previously identified and discussed having plans for]
2) In which spinoffs do you have plans for her to appear in?
3) To which of the three surviving Earth races does she belong?
2. Gargoyles. Bad Guys. Maybe TimeDancer. Maybe Pendragon. Maybe New Olympians. Maybe Gargoyles 2198 in a flashback. Not Dark Ages.
Does the illuminati know every single detail of a person's life on earth? For example does the Illuminati know when Matt (not the cartoon Matt but the Matt on this question server) take a shower, eat, sleep, etc?
I doubt anyone in OUR universe is that organized.
Blaise's ramble reminded me of a question i've been meaning to ask...
how does Martin Hacker rank in the Illuminati? obviously hes higher up than Matt, but probably lower than Mace was... he was partnered with Matt years ago, meaning that hes been an Illuminatus for years, is he higher up than Xanatos? how long has Xanatos been an Illuminati member?
X hasn't been a member very long.
Martin outranks him.
1.Who made Castle Carbonek? Are they the same guys that made the Grail? If not who are they?
2.How does time pass there? Is it like Avalon where a hour there is a day in our world?
3.Who controls the travelling? The fisher king? If no one controls it then does it work like Avalon where it takes you to where you're needed?
1. You mean who built it? Not going into that now.
2. Time passes normally.
3. The Fisher King controls it, but he has limits. And sometimes it gets out of his control.
"Your Revelations ramble"
This is probably more a compliment than anything else. Revelations was actually the first episode of the show I ever saw. I happend to flip through as the opening theme was playing and i stopped and started to watch. As you can guess I was in front of the television again the following Friday. (man that was a while ago)
What I did want to ask was did Mace get his tattoo by choice or was it sort of like branding by the society? (ouch)
(And by the way, it's good to hear from a fan who found the show in the middle and wasn't too put off to invest time into catching up.)
A ramble-review on "Revelations".
I quite liked this episode. I'd been curious for some time about Matt's interest in the Illuminati (as I mentioned before, when I first saw Xanatos donning an Illuminati badge in "Vows", my immediate thought was "What would Matt say if he knew about this?") and in the gargoyles. So now we got an episode in which these two pursuits of his intersected.
And I did initially believe that Matt had sold Goliath out to the Illuminati, which shocked me, since I hadn't thought that he'd actually do something like that. I was glad when the truth came out at the end. I very much liked Matt's narration, as well.
(One thing that did occur to me about Elisa's "uniqueness" in being the only human whom the gargoyles considered a friend; actually, she had lost her "unique" status by this point, in light of the gargoyles also making friends with Jeffrey Robbins and Halcyon Renard - but Elisa wasn't there at either of those meetings, so I don't feel bothered by that inconsistency. And I could understand her reluctance in introducing Matt to the gargs for that reason).
Mace Malone and the Hotel Cabal worked for me (I hadn't even known about the Tower of Terror part before now, or suspected it, for that matter). So did the surprise revelation at the end of the episode that Hacker had been "one of them" all along. I was very curious about what would happen now that Matt knew that his former FBI partner was really an Illuminatus who had been hindering his search.
Actually, that brings me to one of the very few regrets that I have about the series as a whole: the fact that we didn't see anything further with the Illuminati for the rest of the season, and the only element involving it for the remainder of your run on "Gargoyles" was Owen's mention of Duval in "The Journey". (The Goliath Chronicles did do an Illuminati episode after you left, but I definitely didn't like the way that they handled the Illuminati there - they reduced them too much to the level of cliched villains as "evil munitions manufacturers who start up wars just to make a profit" - the Illuminati of your run felt much more "greyish" to me, rather than out-and-out villains like, say, the Archmage or Thailog). I hope that if you get to do the series again, we'll get to see the Illuminati thread (and particularly the Matt-and-the-Illuminati thread) developed some more.
Absolutely. I had/have a lot planned for the Society and Matt.
Did the Illuminati ever realize that Xanatos set up his wealth and power through them via time-travel when he sent that coin?
Not necessarily. They certainly watched the young Xanatos with interest.
More Illuminati questions:
1-Membership simbols: Xanatos and Matt have pins, the Ambassador had a ring, and Mace Malone a hand tatoo. Is this a pattern? There are other simbols?
2a-Xanatos, a rich, smart guy, is a low-rank member. This bores him?
2b-When happened his filliation?
2c-What was his fee?
3-Do you have something _good_ to say about the Illuminati?
4-Do you have something _good_ to say about Duval/Percival?
1. The symbol remains the same. There are many ways to express it. Tatoos were in favor for awhile, but it became obvious that they presented a denial problem.
2a. What bores him? What does boredom have to do with anything?
2b. Don't have that info handy.
3. They're persistent.
4. He meant well.
Time to Ramble...
Fueled by (what I perceived in my own mind to be) the success of "City of Stone", I began to get more daring in my story structure. In Revelations, Cary and I utilized the time-honored tradition of "in medias res", where a story starts in the middle and catches the viewer up along the way. (Thanks, Homer.)
We also used voice over narration for the first time. It's interesting because Matt just seemed like a perfect character to do that kind of Philip Marlowe naration. But at the same time, it was daring, because of course, Matt is not a regular. The audience didn't know him that well. I think it showed the strength of our supporting cast that Matt could carry a show like this. Of course, having the massively talented Tom Wilson playing Matt helped. I knew he could handle it. And he did. Tom is terrific and VERY funny in the booth. I hope someday he gets his own tv show. (I also loved him as Coach Fredericks on Freaks & Geeks.)
The basic springboard for this episode came from four sources.
1. The notion that eventually Matt would have to find out about the Gargoyles. We didn't want to just throw it away or constantly come up with new excuses why he had "just missed them" or whatever.
2. Matt's pursuit of the Illuminati. What began as a Michael Reaves throwaway line in "The Edge" had evolved into its own subplot. Cary's "Silver Falcon" had taken us to the next level of hearsay. It was time to finally bring the Society into the series.
3. Disney's desire to do a cross-over event with their new "TOWER OF TERROR" ride down in Orlando. Unfortunately, they had wanted this much earlier -- in 1994. We had piggy-backed our World Premiere Screening of Gargoyles down in Florida in September of 1994 with the press event for the Tower's Grand Opening. (That's how Keith David, Marina Sirtis, Salli Richardson, Gary Krisel and I wound up riding the Tower of Terror together on the night before it opened to the general public.) But this was the soonest we could fit the notion into our continuity. You'll see in the memo that I just posted previous to this ramble, that when we were at the outline stage, I was still trying to more firmly tie the two properties together. Partway through the script process, someone at Disney changed their mind. They didn't want the tie-in anymore. I shrugged, I think. And the HOLLYWOOD TOWER became the HOTEL CABAL.
4. An episode of the British TV series, THE AVENGERS, called something like "The House That Jack Built". This was a classic that we ripped off shamelessly. (Wait, wait, I mean we paid it homage shamelessly.) It was about this nutty house designed, I believe, to trap spies inside and drive them bonkers and break them. Sound familiar? John Steed and Emma Peel redone as Goliath and Matt. Didn't you notice the resemblance?
(Gee, so far I've credited Raymond Chandler, Homer and THE AVENGERS as influences. What a fun episode.)
We reintroduced Hacker, mostly so that we could bookend him at the end as Matt's new Illuminati contact. This was something that Cary and I planned as far back as Silver Falcon. We always had to keep Hacker's agenda straight. Make sure any info he gave Matt was a wild goose chase, at least as far as Hacker knew.
In this episode, and only in this episode, Maria Chavez is played by the talented Elisa Gabrielli (also known as Obsidiana). Rachel Ticotin, our usual Chavez, was just unavailable. So Elisa filled in. She has a lighter sound. But I think it works. Did anyone notice? Both Elisa and Rachel are great. I used Elisa as the Doll Demon in 3x3 Eyes (now available on VHS and DVD).
My 3 year old son Ben, who at this point is used to me writing down what he and his older sister says during these viewings told me to write down the following: "When it's night, Demona's a gargoyle. When it's day, she's a human. He likes it when Demona's a human." This had absolutely nothing to do with this episode, but hey, who cares?
I really loved what Ed Asner did with the throwaway character of Jack Dane. "Tell him he's a bum." Dane was so much fun, I brought him back for TURF later.
Matt climbs into the clock tower and finds the TV he helped Elisa with on the day they met. That was fun. This whole episode ties back to Matt's Illuminati musings in "The Edge". It was nice to find another connection. Also, Elisa's been lying to him as long as they've known each other. Nice to remind the audience of that as well.
I like the "family of gorillas" line.
"The Dental Plan" line is vintage Cary Bates.
Elisa: "Matt, you haven't said three words all night..."
Matt: "Let me drive." HEY! THREE WORDS! :) This is fun because, I always thought of Elisa as someone who was such a control freak, she never let her partner drive her car. A big part of this episode, though it could easily sneak past you what with everything else going on, is revealing more facets of Elisa's personality. We learn much more about her and she grows here too.
It's fun to establish Xanatos as "a lower eschelon member". Immediately makes the Illuminati impressive, if Xanatos barely registers on their scale. Also sets up eventual conflicts with him.
First act cliffhanger: Here the threat is Matt. Again, how well did you all think you knew Matt? Here we're inside his point of view -- his narration. But we still try to play him edgy enough that we don't know if he'll kill them both. It helps that we opened with the shocker that he betrayed Goliath to Mace. How many people bought that? Thought Matt was the Judas that Mace said he was?
Anyway, I really like this scene. Elisa yelling at Matt. Matt getting out of the car and yelling at... no one. And Elisa's quiet revelation that Matt isn't crazy... "They don't follow me everywhere." Again, this line was as important for Elisa as for Matt. Sure she can count on the Gargoyles for help. But I never wanted it to seem like Lois and Superman. Like he was always around or would here her with super-senses everytime she screamed. Most of the time, Elisa's on her own.
"This time I'll drive."
Fun to see the gargoyles reactions when Matt is introduced. Goliath's not upset. He appreciates that Elisa has a loyal partner and probably gave her permission to bring Matt in from the cold long before. The truth is they know Matt already.
Elisa: "better late than never".
And then immediately Goliath is suspicious. "Trust is not... to be bartered."
As creators, we were playing both ends here. Omitting pieces of conversation. Trying to get the audience to believe that Matt might in fact be betraying G. But also making it believable that in hindsight, he wasn't. Not cheating, in other words.
At this point, my six year old daughter Erin said: "I don't like Bluestone in this one. He's usually very nice. But in this one he's mean." That's how she saw him. Not righteously angry with Elisa for the lies. Just mean.
It took remarkably more effort than I'd have expected to get things to hook up with our Teaser from the beginning of the act. To help, I reused a couple of Mace's line as prompts to the audience.
It's fun to hear Tom Wilson playing Matt playing at being a bad guy.
I like all the hotel references. "Check out time" etc.
Mace falls down the shaft and grabs the cables with his bare hands. One hundred years old or not, that's gotta hoit.
I like Matt using his coat as a parachute. That wouldn't be necessary except for that darn Gallileo. If it weren't for him, Goliath, being heavier, could have fallen faster than Matt to catch up to him. :)
And of course, I enjoy the irony of Mace being trapped in a Hell of his own making. And i like the notion that the Illuminati just left him there to rot. He had outlived his usefulness. A non-member had found him thanks to his annoying sentimental habit of visiting Pine Lawn. AND he had failed to hold the Gargoyle in the Cabal. Breaking a perfect record. Woops.
Goliath refers to Bluestone as his friend. That's to make sure the audience is clear that Goliath was in on the plan from the beginning. Later, I gathered, some people still didn't get that.
We have a great Turning to Stone sequence here. Every once in a while it's nice to remind the audience that this is unique and special. Seeing it through a new characrer's eyes is a great way to do that.
I love Elisa and Matt's conversation. Elisa reveals that she's subconsciously been keeping the gargs to herself because it made her feel special. Explains a lot about "Her Brother's Keeper", doesn't it? And Matt admits to something similar. I think we all do little things to help ourselves stand out, even if no one notices them but us.
Maria then helps us see that Matt and Elisa are going to be okay.
And finally, our Hacker tag. (This episode had like six tags.) Matt gets his pin. I thought that was kinda cool...
What say all of you....
In Prep for my coming RAMBLE on REVELATIONS, here's the memo I wrote to Story Editor Cary Bates in response to his outline...
Notes on "Revelations" Outline...
I was very concerned that the first act and much of the second act came across as prologue to our adventure. And yet most of it is necessary stuff. So I think we should open the story with GOLIATH trapped in the "house that Jack built" (HTJB) and flashback from there. Probably with MATT narrating the whole story in Voice Over.
I've suggested act breaks, but you don't have to feel married to them, if the timing or page count seems wrong.
Also, I didn't suggest any specific revisits to the HTJB (after the prologue) until our story brings us back there chronologically. If you want to revisit the present in the HTJB a few times to remind the audience of the current situation and to up the action with Goliath facing another death trap, go for it. Totally up to you.
I also moved the Hacker scene up, so that he can bookend the show a little more. In his first scene, he'll still be telling Matt that the Society is a myth. In his last scene, he'll be inviting Matt to join.
HTJB/MOUNTAIN RETREAT/TOWER OF TERROR/SEEDY HOTEL
It's a bit of a stretch to believe that Goliath would go to this "Mountain Retreat" with Matt. What do they hope to accomplish there, besides illegal search and seizure? Matt's "informant" is fishy beyond belief. So is the gizmo that gets them past the security perimeter. The point of which is lost on me, since they are immediately spotted by security forces. How does defeating these forces help? THEY'VE BEEN SPOTTED. What can they hope to accomplish now? These security guards can't radio inside to hide or destroy whatever data there might be? It's all adding up to a big old fishy mess. And yes, I realize that the Illuminati want Goliath inside and that Goliath wants to get "trapped" in order for Matt's plan to work out, but it's too convenient to say everyone is intentionally acting like idiots. The audience won't be in on it. They'll just be getting frustrated. By the time we reveal the truth, they'll just generally feel the whole story was contrived.
So let's start by ditching the mountain retreat. I like the Seedy Hotel better. Someplace that from the outside seems like a totally non-descript Manhattan building. Maybe it's boarded up and condemned. Getting in is not a problem. They land on the roof and sneak inside. But getting out is impossible.
The hotel is really the "House That Jack Built". Yes, steel shutters slam shut, trapping Goliath, but more importantly, we should really lose our bearings inside. Goliath rips open a window that he thinks leads outside, only to find it's a false facade that leads into another room. At another point, he thinks he has gotten back onto the roof. But this turns out to be another interior room, with a domed ceiling painted with stars. Another room has all the furniture on the ceiling and the razor sharp ceiling fan on the floor. Maybe another room rotates. Think about optical illusions, Escher paintings, etc. The death traps are fun, but we've done them before, so it's the mind-bending surreal stuff that will make this place special.
Also since the powers-that-be have asked, and since it fits our story, please refer to this place at least once as the "TOWER OF TERROR" and do at least one death trap with a rapidly falling elevator. This is "Synergy" with the Disney/MGM theme park's TOWER OF TERROR ride in Florida. I wouldn't suggest it if it didn't fit, but it fits just fine and that kind of goodwill never hurts. The name of the hotel should be the Hollywood Tower, cause that's the name in the ride. Now I know that seems like a weird name for a manhattan hotel, but if you figure it was built in the thirties or forties, during Hollywood's heyday, you can RATIONALIZE that even a New York Hotel would want to associate itself with the glamour of Hollywood. O.K. It's a stretch, but go for it.
MATT AND SECRECY
THE THEME OF OUR STORY IS TRUST. Hit it as much as possible. However, I don't want to replay Matt's emotional arc from Silver Falcon. He learned his lesson in that story. He no longer runs off without telling Elisa where he's going or what he's doing. Matt's honesty at the beginning of the story will contrast nicely with Elisa's deception about the gargoyles and with Matt's later bitter, furtive behavior. He can't feel too betrayed by Elisa's lies if he opened the story lying to her as well.
In your beat #9, Goliath is behaving completely out of character. He may never have been introduced to Matt, but he's seen him from a distance and knows who he is. He must know from Elisa that Matt is a good guy. His long-term goal in Manhattan is to find acceptance with a growing number of humans. Elisa was the first (and is still the foremost), but Renard is a friend of Goliath's now. Jeffrey Robbins the novelist is a friend of Hudson's. Goliath tried to convince Elisa to tell the truth to her brother, etc. And in any case, he's not likely to physically assault someone for doing nothing else but looking at them. I know you want to set up a tense dynamic, but the one in beat 9 is totally artificial. So drop it.
BOTHERSOME QUESTIONS THAT MUST BE DEALT WITH IN THE SCRIPT
1. Why was it necessary for Mace to vanish in the twenties? (Perhaps he was recruited by the Illuminati, but was about to get busted for his criminal operations with Dracon. So he vanished with the money, and the Illuminati set him up with a new life. But why did they want him? Why would they bother?)
2. Why would Mace give up his glamorous gangster life to live in a seedy hotel for the Illuminati? (He obviously wouldn't. So let's not imply that he did.)
3. How did Matt make the connection between Mace and the Illuminati in the first place? (This question must get answered in this episode. In "Silver Falcon", the old photo of Mace and Dominic will depict Mace wearing the Illuminati pyramid/eye emblem. But don't count on the audience noticing or remembering that. And don't forget that Matt thought Mace was involved with the Society long before he saw that photo in Benton's office.)
4. Did Matt just get phenomenally lucky that he happened to go to Flo's grave at the same time as Mace? Was he planning on setting up 24 hour surveillance? Did he have some way of knowing that Mace visits and when?
5. How does Mace being alive prove the existence of the Illuminati? (Hint: it doesn't, by itself. See question #3.)
Mace was a prominent gangster when he disappeared in 1924. If you figure he was about thirty, he'd be 100 now give or take five years. I think we should make a point of this. He looks great, thanks to the Illuminati's rejuvenation techniques. Like a man of 75 or 80. But he proudly tells Matt that today's his 100th birthday, or something like that.
1. Establishing shot of the Seedy Hotel. It's Friday night. Inside, Goliath is already alone. The steel shutters slam shut, trapping him inside, a mysterious voice (Mace) welcomes him to the "Tower of Terror". Maybe activate a death trap or two. Maybe Goliath finds an open window, but it leads back inside. Maybe the ceiling comes down on him or something.
2. Cut to the control room, where we see Goliath on a monitor. Mace is at the controls. (We don't yet know who he is.) And then pull back to see Matt looking over Mace's shoulder. We can't believe Matt is helping to trap and kill Goliath!! Push in on Matt. In his voice over, we find out he can hardly believe it either, it all began last Tuesday....
3. First flashback begins. Last Tuesday. It's the FBI target range and the scene with MARTIN HACKER. (Don't take for granted that the audience knows Hacker. Reintroduce all the necessary, pertinent info about him, Malone and the Illuminati -- pretend they've never been mentioned before this episode.) Hacker can't believe Matt is still chasing Mace Malone and the Illuminati. It's a wild goose chase that got him fired from the Bureau. When will he learn his lesson? But Matt is determined. He's going to prove the existence of the Illuminati, prove that he's not a nutcase. So Hacker gives him the info that he asked for: the location of Malone's step-son, a mobster who's part of the Federal Witness Relocation Program. (Hacker gives him this location because he knows that Malone's step-son has no idea where Malone is.)
4. Tuesday Night. Later at the precinct house, Matt sees Captain Chavez coming out of the Ladies room. He asks her if Elisa is in there. She says no. Matt doesn't get it. Her car is here, but he can't find her.
He finally finds Elisa exiting the broom closet. Has she been sitting in a closet for the last twenty minutes? Of course, not. She was just, uh... returning a mop. One of the sinks in the ladies' room overflowed. That's where she's been (yeah, that's the ticket) cleaning up a flood in the Ladies' Room. Matt is so stunned by her obvious and clumsy lie, that he doesn't immediately confront her with it. Unaware that she's been caught in a lie, Elisa quickly changes the subject. Why was Matt looking for her? He's got a lead on the Illuminati. After the Silver Falcon debacle, he's learned his lesson about keeping his partner in the dark. (He says pointedly.) He just wanted to let her know where he's going to be tomorrow. (As with Hacker, Elisa likes Matt but seems to only tolerate his obsessions. There's the tiniest bit of a patronizing attitude toward them. Perhaps Matt invites her along on his investigation, but she thinks it's a waste of time. She's nice about it, but Matt's V.O. narration lets us know that he knows she thinks he's a kook. Same with Hacker in the scene above.)
5. Wednesday. Matt confronts Malone's step-son, JACKSON DANE (or whatever) at the gym (or wherever). (Jackson's 80 if he's a day, but he can have Ferrigno-sized goons. Though you need to be careful that Matt doesn't come across as a dirty or rogue cop. I don't want him to break any laws.) Matt asks Jackson about Mace. Dane hasn't seen Mace since he was a little kid. Matt pulls out a photo that was taken at the memorial service for Jackson's mother (Mace's ex-wife), actress Flo Dane, when she died fifteen years ago. It was a big deal thing. We see a picture of Jackson in the front row. Did Jackson see Mace at the funeral. No. Matt takes out a second picture. A blow up of people in the back row. He points to one. Jackson looks carefully, and whaddaya know? It's Mace. Now Matt wants to know where Flo Dane is buried. Jackson says that his mom didn't want her grave to become a tourist attraction, so she was buried under her real name, FLORA DREEDLE. Did Mace know that name? Yes, he did.
6. Wednesday, just before sundown. Back at the precinct, Elisa asks Chavez if Matt's checked in yet. No. Elisa goes up to see the gargoyles. We follow her into the broom closet. The pull-down ladder is already down. She nervously pulls her gun and goes upstairs. Only to find Matt there. She's under time pressure to get him out of there, since it's nearly sunset. He points to the t.v. set. He remembers helping her bring that into the precinct the day they met. She had said it was for a friend. She pretends that this is her little getaway spot when police life gets too intense. Some getaway spot. An old lounge chair. A hot plate. Video game equipment. Books. Enough food for a family of gorillas. She says she may be bending a few regulations, but she's not breaking any laws. Don't tell Chavez, o.k.? (She has got to get him downstairs.) So how'd it go with Mace's step-son? He's still highly suspicious, but enthusiastic enough about filling her in on Mace that he allows her to guide him back downstairs. Matt has checked with the funeral home. Some old man shows up there every Thursday and leaves a rose for Flora Dreedle. It's a long shot but Matt is going to be there tomorrow to find Mace Malone.
7. Thursday. Matt finds Mace Malone, who goes into a bit of denial, but we'll give him an Illuminati tattoo on the palm of his hand (or something). Mace relents, impressed. The Illuminati has been aware of Matt's quest. They've thrown multiple roadblocks in his way, and still Matt found Mace. The Society has clearly underestimated the boy. Mace offers Matt membership based on a loyalty test. Matt: You want me to prove my loyalty? How do I know I can trust you? Mace: Fair question. What if I prove good faith by revealing a bit of information donated by one of our lower echelon members, David Xanatos. Matt's listening.
8. Very late Thursday night. Elisa and Matt are driving in her car. She's driving. She asks him if everything's all right. The shift's almost over and he hasn't said three words all night. "Let me drive," he says [exactly three words]. No way -- it's my car, she replies, only half-kidding. He INSISTS. She relents, realizing he's pretty upset about something. It's a very awkward moment. She has to stop the car, get out and switch sides with him. He's silent the whole time. He drives. Where are they headed? He ignores the question, but tells her that today he found Mace Malone. That's great, she says, but you're driving awfully fast. He ignores that too, saying he feels like he's on a streak. Now that he's proven the Illuminati exists, he's about to prove the existence of another urban myth that he's been taunted for believing in. Matt, she yells, you're driving us right into the path of some kind of danger!! That's right he says, and the only way we can be saved is if your gargoyles save us.
9. Elisa manages to wrest the wheel from him and turn the car into a very uncontrolled 360° skid. Thank god for seat belts. They barely survive. Elisa is furious at Matt! What the heck does he think he's doing?! He's trying to get his partner to tell him the truth. He gets out of the car and yells to the sky. "I know you're out there! Show yourself!" Nothing happens. No gargoyles appear. Elisa gets out of the car. Matt's expecting another lie. But all she says is, "They don't follow me everywhere I go." They look at each other. C'mon, she says. I'll drive. (NOTE: I don't think we need to bring up informants. Elisa can believe that Matt has put two and two together from all the lies she's had to tell in the first act.)
10. But by the time they get back to the precinct it's dawn, early Friday morning. Too late, she says. He doesn't buy it. He knows that set-up in the clock tower must be for them. She's still reluctant to tell him the whole truth. Look, she says, you have to be patient for a little while longer. (Note: she has not actually apologized yet.) Meet me back here this evening. Ten minutes before sunrise.
11. Friday. Mace and Matt meet again. Has Matt seen the gargoyles yet? Tonight. But the information was correct? Yes, she friends with them. The Society has demonstrated good faith. Does Matt still want to join? Yes. Then you're willing to take the loyalty test? Yes, what do I have to do? Bring us a gargoyle.
12. Friday at twilight. Matt and Elisa head out the clock face's door (at roman numeral VI) Matt sees the statues of the gargoyles and gets pissed again. No stone statues are going to fool him. He knows they're flesh and blood. He's seen them (in previous episodes). She says hold on and stand back. The sun goes down. The gargoyles explode from stone. Milk this for all the awe and majesty, etc., that it's worth. Seeing it from Matt's point of view, we should all feel like we're seeing it again for the first time. The gargoyles approach. They all know Matt, even if he doesn't know them. Even Bronx is friendly. Matt is awestruck. Speechless. Elisa tells Matt that the Gargoyles have adopted the city and protect it as they once protected their castle in Scotland long ago. She asks him to keep the gargoyles' secret. He says he will, but he wants something in return. Goliath doesn't love the idea of being blackmailed into anything. Matt says he's tracked Mace to a seedy condemned hotel. He's sure he can get proof of the Illuminati's existence if he could just get into the hotel, but it's locked and boarded up on the ground floor. He needs Goliath's help to enter via the roof. The other gargoyles offer to help, but Matt isn't trying to lay siege to the place, he just wants to sneak in and sneak out. All he needs is Goliath. Elisa wants to go, but Matt specifically doesn't want her to. Why? Because I want to find out once and for all whether you trust me. So Goliath takes off with Matt. (AND I think we can assume that Matt filled Goliath in on his plan on the flight over to the seedy hotel.)
13. Friday night. They land on the roof of the hotel. With Goliath's help, they break into the stairway and go inside. Almost immediately, Matt is forcibly separated from Goliath and spirited away to join Mace in the control room. Mace is very pleased with Matt. He presses a button and steel shutters slam home in a repeat of scene 1. Which brings us up to date, end on a cliff hanger and go to commercial.
14. Play Goliath in the HTJB. Have fun with it. You've got most of the act. Meanwhile, Matt asks Mace how long they plan to keep Goliath here. Why, we can keep him here forever. He'd never find his way out without help. So Matt has to secretly help Goliath. But you can't have that signal device. Where would Matt get it from? He's not Batman. So think of something else. Ultimately, they escape leaving Mace hopelessly lost inside the surreal world of his own making. (That's the Illuminati's punishment for him. He can die of dehydration there, some time in the future and we don't have to portray it or worry about S&P.) All this is done in such a way that the Illuminati would later blame Mace not Matt. If you need help to choreograph this, give me a call.
15. Pre-Dawn Saturday morning, Goliath and Matt return to the clock tower where Elisa and the others are waiting. We find out definitively that Matt tipped Goliath off to his plan on the way to the seedy hotel. He was hoping to join the Illuminati -- so he could bust them from the inside, but in order to escape, they had to trap Mace, his only Illuminati connection, in the HTJB, so it was all for nothing. Matt watches with Elisa as the Gargoyle's turn to stone. (Again, milk this. Through Matt's eyes it should feel like the first time.) Elisa and Matt have their little scene. She finally apologizes. He asks why she kept it a secret from him. And etc.
16. Matt walks outside and there's Hacker, who reveals that he's a member of the Illuminati who had been assigned to Matt to keep him away from the Illuminati. Matt can't believe it: Hacker helped him with info. Only info that Hacker thought led down a dead end. Matt just figured a way to do an end run around the dead ends. No hard feelings. Anyway, he always liked Matt, so he's proud to give him his official Illuminati membership pin. Matt doesn't get it. The society lost the gargoyle. Mace's fault, not Matt's. Hacker promises to keep in touch. He hops in an unmarked car and drives off. After he's gone, Matt says something determined about keeping in touch too. This isn't over.
1-You once said that they regard Demona as a loose cannon. How they know her _so_ well?
2a-When Percival/Duval born?
2b-How old he looks?
2c-Is he _always_ at Castle Carbonek?
3-The Illuminati was created in 642. Arthur 'died' in 542. This mean something?
4-Are you pushing to make them the main villains of Gargs? They will be villains in near all the spin-offs. And in 2198, they literally _sold_ the mankind to the space-spawn.
5a-The 'Norman Ambassador' being a Illuminatus and the escort of Elena - coincidence?
5b-If _a_ is 'no', then _why_ should the Illuminati create trouble to Wyvern? You hinted this.
2a. I don't have an exact date for that at this time. Sixth Century, however.
2b. Not saying.
2c. Not saying.
4. It depends what you mean by "main". I certainly want them to be ubiquitous. And I want them to have a bit more presence than they had in the first 65 episodes. But there a background force largely.
5a. I'm not sure what you mean. That's like asking if it's a coincidence that my first name is Greg and my last name is Weisman...
You have mentioned that there is a clan in Korea.
1)Where in Korea is this clan located?
2)Who is the leader of the clan?
3) Have they had a massacre recently? Or do the Koreans in the area even know they exist?
4) In 1998 did the clan have a rookery?
5) Will any Korean gargs play a part in future story lines?
6) Of the 12 Existing clans; how many is the Illuminati aware of?
1. Pukhan, Korea. This clan lives in tunnels and caves that run through the mountains along the Pukhan River.
2. Don't know yet.
3. No full-scale massacre, if that's what you mean.
3a. There are legends.
6. In 2001, there are not 12 existing clans. There are 10, including Avalon, Manhattan and the Labyrinth. And the Illuminati probably know about fewer than you think.
This is my first time asking a question here, so be gentle...
It's been mentioned that in "Bad Guys", The Director would've been fighting against the Illuminati's Mr. Duval. Since you had planned for Duval to be Sir Percival, was the Director going to be any notable character from history, mythology, or literature? If so, then who?
In closing, I'd just like to thank you for helping create something that I've had much enjoyment from these past 7 years. There hasn't been any show quite like "Gargoyles" since (unfortunately).
(Was that gentle?)
And thanks. Glad you've stuck around.
Hey, um. Sorry about Question 2 in my Angela post.
I guess you DID say that you weren't gonna answer in questions about 2198 until the contest was over. (Although SOME people are already asking questions.
Here are some questions of my own.
1. Do Arthur and his comrades go on a quest to retrieve the Holy Grail. (I think I've seen yes in the archive). If so, does this pit the against Percival/Duval, the leader of the Illuminati.
2. Does Macbeth get involved.
1. Eventually and yes.
2. A bit.
How did Matt first learn about the Illuminati's existence?
Good question. Fun answer. But it's a long story.
Is the Director's enmity primarily aimed at Duval himself, or the Illuminati?
"enmity" is the wrong word.
Are there any other Garg-universe controlling-major-events-from-behind-the-scenes secret societies besides the Illuminati?
Not really. (Would get redundant.)
What was the Illuminati Society's reaction (if any) to the various historical Anti-Mason movements?
As long as they're ire was directed at splinter groups, copy-cats and shells, the actual Society was just fine with them.
How many people are members of the illuminati society in 1996?
I've never counted.
Would Duval make any attempt to make his identity known to King Arthur? Arthur was Percival's great uncle, and Percy was one of Art's best knights, so would they make contact of any sort?
Contact would be made.
Will any gargoyles ever become members of the illuminati society in the future?
How do you know some aren't already?
Are any of the members of the Illmunati pre-2198 non-humans? If so, what race are they?
1) Do the Illuminati know about Macbeth?
2) Do the Illuminati know about the Gathering?
3) The were-panthers?
4) The Golem?
5) The Matrix, whether before or after it hooked up with Dingo?
6) Do they know Owen is Puck?
7) Do they know why Macbeth or Demona are immortal?
7. See (1).
Written by Shari Goodhartz
Michael Reaves, Story Editor
Benny: "But Daddy, when it's dark they get alive. But when it's light, the get frozen like a statue."
Last night, the kids, my sister, my wife and I all watched "Vows" together. Time to ramble.
Back to the Golden Cup Bakery Building. As I noted in the previously posted memo about this episode, I wanted a little opening battle, but I didn't want to waste time in a tight, packed script explaining how this came about. It does beg the question though. Assume that X contacted Elisa. She told Goliath. He went ALONE? His friends allowed this? Hmmm.
Xanatos knows from the letter to himself what to do, but I sometimes wonder just how detailed the letter was. I like to think it was fairly sketchy. That exactly HOW Xanatos got Goliath to come was his own machinations. Otherwise, though he takes the credit for the letter, the truth is that the plan itself wasn't his idea. He got the idea from the letter. And he wrote the letter based on what he had done, which he had gotten from the letter. None of this is really his to own, though he does claim ownership. So I like to think that at least some of the details were X's. For example, X knows what G will respond to, i.e. Demona.
Hudson, on hearing about the wedding, suddenly makes the connection to the long ago incident when he met the Goliath from the future. So he's strangely ambivalent. Elisa on the other hand, seems flat out jealous to me. After the events of "The Mirror" and "Eye of the Beholder", she's much more aware and focused on her feelings for Goliath. SHE DOES NOT WANT TO ACT ON THOSE FEELINGS. At this time, she thinks it's impossible. But that doesn't change how she feels. And now, she's jealous. Goliath's feelings for Elisa are just as intense, but so are his feelings for the "Angel" of his youth. He HAS to give it one last chance. (And this will be the last chance. The final nail in the coffin of his and Demona's "marriage".) Brooklyn, meanwhile, is just knee-jerk against anything involving Demona.
PETROS XANATOS is introduced. Again, I wonder why he was invited. Was he also included in the letter? Or did Xanatos invite him to prove something to his father. Is X that needy? Or did X invite him to the wedding, because of course he'd invite his father to his wedding, and his already planned "honeymoon" to 975 shouldn't alter his decorum. Perhaps he's mildly surprised his father winds up coming along? Anyway, Petros was a fun character. A tough hard physical man. With morals. A great contrast to the son. I knew even then that we'd give Petros and David an arc to their relationship, (one that eventually would culminate in Gathering2).
"Oh, reason not the need." A little King Lear is always nice. And I love Petros' attitude on the line, "And the armor?" I mean what would you say to your son if you saw him dressed like that? I'd like to know how many people had sort of forgotten that X was even wearing armor (we're so used to it) until Petros made an issue of it?
I love all the irony in the dialogue between Petros and David. David knows what he's planning. He must be smiling when Petros says "I'd like to get my hands on the man who gave you that coin." And when David says, "Someday, I'll prove to you that I'm a self-made man," he must really be patting himself on the back.
I love the voice work of Keith and Marina when doing their teen-age counterparts. So subtle, yet it's always clear which Goliath and Demona is talking at any given moment.
Gotta love that storage room in the clock tower. The Eye of Odin, the Grimorum, half the Phoenix Gate, and, oh, yes, a comatose Coldstone. By the way, despite what the memo said, I think generally, Goliath carried that Gate in the pouch attached to his belt. Not behind some brick. We hadn't actually come up with that pouch yet, not until the World Tour. But using RetCon, I think that's where he kept it until they moved to the clock tower and Demona tried to kill him, Hudson and Elisa in "Long Way to Morning".
One interesting thing: this is the first episode where we actually CONFIRM that the ILLUMINATI does exist. Matt's mentioned it. Even chased it in SILVER FALCON, but we've never been shown any proof of it's existence until now. Was anyone surprised by that?
Judge Roebling was interesting in theory, though not so much in the episode. I'd like to do more with him some day. I also thought that it was interesting that despite seeing the tape of the Gargoyles in advance. And not reacting outwardly when he saw Goliath, he still gasps when Demona enters. What is it about her? When she entered, Benny turned to me and said: "She's queen of the Gargoyles." Oh. So that's it.
(And everytime Xanatos and Fox are on screen together, Benny likes to point out that he and Erin dressed up as them at the last Gathering. "That's me. That's you, Erin.")
To some extent, X must have filled D in on his plan. I love her "acting" when she enters and gives her bitter "excuse" for being there to Goliath. She's playing hard to get!
I love Petros: "Unnacceptable." He's still trying to teach David the error of his ways.
The Gate itself is very idiosyncratic. It's size, the size of its portal, and the duration the portal stays open seems to vary not just from episode to episode but from scene to scene. Sometimes it annoys me, like when Princess Elena removes the Gate from her sleeve, and suddenly it's bigger than her hand. But now I'm just amused by it. Again, if you think of it as a steam valve for the timestream, it explains a lot.
I love the little sound that Paca put in when the two pieces of the Gate first come together. What a tip-off that was, yet it's subtle. Did anyone think about the significance of the talisman that Demona had shared with Goliath before she started speaking in Latin and flames appeared out of nowhere?
It was hard to make people understand the time loop a bit. But it seemed really hard to make them see why I kept wanting to repeat scenes to show the connective tissue. We had to squeeze in Owen's "Honeymoon" line the second time. No one left space for it.
For the first of many times in the series, someone (X) says the line: "It's not where, it's when". (Erin: "I know when.")
I love X & Fox's relationship. "Having fun." "A marvelous time." Great stuff.
Hudson gets a close look at 1995 Goliath and immediately sees the age and wear and tear on the guy. (I love the shot of Goliath gagging him.) That says a lot for Hudson, because the visual difference between the two Gs was extremely subtle in the animation -- when it existed at all.
Knowing what we had planned (more or less) for Avalon, we were already laying groundwork here for that. Setting up the combined power of the Gate, Grimorum and Eye. Setting up the Archmage's desire for that power. Further demonstrating his enmity for the people he'd wind up using. Of course, making Demona his apprentice was fun. Tells a lot about her own desire for power that even when she was a good girl, she was still willing to work for the Archmage in order to learn his secrets. Willing even to steal for him.
The Norman Ambassador and Prince Malcolm make a BIG deal about how odd the Xanatoses' clothes are. But were they THAT strange? Was Fox's wedding gown that odd? And even if they were strange, did they look as shabby as Prince Malcolm seemed to suggest?
Not every episode gives you a double wedding. Fox and David. Elena and Malcolm. Hey, did anyone notice that we married off our lead villain? That was very daring, and we all but threw it away in Act One. Was anyone expecting Fox and X to really get married? And once they were, did you think you'd see them have a kid by season's end? I think we broke new ground there.
I like the exchange between Goliath and Hudson. Goliath's trying to explain that he's not a creature of sorcery, but a time traveler. H: "And I suppose you came back in time on the wind." O.k., well sorcery was involved if you're gonna get technical. And Goliath has some amusing tense problems while trying to describe what happened in his recent past, Hudson's FAR future. Then Hudson looks him in the eye and decides to trust him on no further evidence. Cool.
I knew a girl named Bryant from Bar Harbor, Maine once. That's where we got X's home town.
Fox is so proud of her man. But I love Petros' "Mr. Big-Shot Time Traveler" line. Or rather I love the way Morgan Shepard read the line.
How hard did Demona try to do things differently from the way she remembered them being done? She knows Goliath is going to fly down to try and join her and her younger self. She tries to leave before he can get there. But the gate stays open long enough for him to go with. Did it ever occur to her to go somewhen else other than 994? I guess part of it could be chalked up to dim memory. It was over a thousand years ago. And Demona lived through that 1000 years. Even for a very significant event in her life, it must still be very hazy.
That exchange between Demona and Demona is a lot of fun. Demona is so brutal to Demona. (And, hey, she spells out the Gate's power to any audience member who hasn't yet caught on.) "Do not share it with-- Do not share it!" I love that line. Also:
"I am what you will become."
"I will never be like you."
"I don't want to hurt you."
"And I don't want to BE you."
pretty cool stuff.
I also like the moment when we have two gates rolling about on the floor and young Demona and older Goliath both bend over to pick them up. At first we had a lot of discussion as to who should pick up which gate. But the discussion became moot, since after the gate pieces were reunited, they almost always seemed like they had never been broken in the first place. Magic.
And the young Demona, older Goliath scene is also gorgeous.
"What am I to do?"
Love that. Love his whole "Do nothing/attend the petty jealousy" speech. I think it's very pretty. Very sad. At that moment, does Goliath hope he's changing the future? Or is he simply trying to spare this young Angel a couple extra decades of pain?
Showing Demona's natural bents again: Goliath isn't sure if he remembers the incantation, though he's heard it multiple times by this point. Young Demona, having only heard it ONCE, does remember and uses the Gate perfectly.
"Time Travel's funny that way." At least it is in the Gargoyle Universe with the strict, strict rules that I imposed. Of course, I've always thought that those strict rules made the stories more challenging for the writer and, yet, more fun and satisfying for the viewer.
I also really like Petros' "American Penny" speech. For once the "Xanatos Tag" of victory doesn't go to David.
Where did the expression "More's the pity." come from? I've heard it many times. I know what it means, though that's more from sound and context than from the words themselves. What am I quoting when I use it? Does anyone know? (This isn't a contest. I really don't know.)
Finally, my tape has the weird mistake ending that first aired, which shows Demona and Goliath in the clock tower. It's pretty, but it drives me nuts and I think it's really confusing. But I've talked about that many times before, and I'm sick of it, so this time, I'll let it go.
A second comment, on "Vows". You mentioned that you weren't certain as to whether the one-eyed pyramid design on Xanatos's Illuminati pin was a genuine Illuminati symbol or not. Actually, it is - or at least, it's popularly associated with the Illuminati in conspiracy theory mythology. (Said conspiracy theories like to particularly make a big thing of the one-eyed pyramid also showing up on the Great Seal of the United States and the back of the one-dollar bill, as if indicating that there was some connection between the Illuminati and the Founding Fathers. I won't ask if that was indeed the case in the Gargoyles Universe; I doubt that the fandom has been cleared for that answer yet :)
:) Yeah, I thought I remembered something about that even at the time, but the Illuminati was a concept that Michael had intro'd into the series, so I didn't want to be presumptuous.
Will the Illuminati ever lose its interest in capturing a live Gargoyle?
Ever's a long time.
In "The Silver Falcon", the letter from Mace Malone to Dominic Dracon shows that Mace's full first name is "Mason". Was this a reference to the Freemasons (who seem to have been a partial-original for the Illuminati of "Gargoyles" - or at least, the popular beliefs about the Freemasons were), in light of Mace Malone's being an Illuminatus?
Maybe. I'd have to ask Cary Bates, who came up with the name.
1)Why does sir Pervical want the Manhatten Clan?
Does he want to destroy them, enslave them, cage them for protection from humans, or some other sinister plan?
He wants to neutralize a variable. Incorporate it into his master plan.
Where did Mace Malone really hide the gems Dominic Dracon was looking for in the Silver Falcon?
He didn't. He gave them to the Illuminati as his admission fee.
Do the rejuvination drugs the Illuminati give out to their senior members have any connection to the Holy Grail? I ask because their leader is the Fisher King, the keeper of the grail.
In one of your recent answers to "Ask Greg", when somebody asked you if you had any plans to include events in "Gargoyles" that people blamed on the Illuminati, you asked if people do still blame events on the Illuminati. Actually, there are a few people out there who do - generally the ones who see the United Nations and the European Economic Union as Satanic tools to unite the world under the Antichrist. They actually believe that the Illuminati are the ones behind these events (and often identify them with the Freemasons, or with some sort of inner clique of the Freemasons).
(For my own part, given Duval's function as Fisher King, i.e., guardian of the Holy Grail, I doubt that the Illuminati of the Gargoyles Universe can be seriously intending to promote Satan-worship).
No. Not Satan Worship. Just expediency. (Or is that the same thing sometimes?)
Some Questions about the illuminati society in the Gargoyles universe.
1) Matt Bluestone once said that the president works for the Illuminati society, is this true?
2) It is extremely hard for a person in power to have completly loyal followers. Does Sir Pervical who is the leader of the Illuminati Society have any followers that are willing to betray him and try to sieze power in the Illuminati society?
Why does Sir Percival want the Manhatten clan?
Does he want to destroy them, enslave them, put them in a cage to prevent them from getting killed by the humans? or does he have other plans for them?
1. I'm afraid to say.
2. It's certainly possible.
Why did YOU stop numbering your questions?
Does the Illuminati Society accept female members, or is it strictly a "males-only" organization?
These days it'll pull from either gender.
1. What is the legal status of Percival/Duval and Blanchefleur's marriage at present? Are they still legally married (although clearly estranged)?
2. Do the marital problems that Percival and Blanchefleur are having at present have anything to do with the Illuminati's activities (particularly the less ethical ones such as the Hotel Cabal and the Quarrymen)?
Some Illuminati questions
(Some of them are hard to understand. But I hope, you could awnser them):
1.:In the Illuminati books, written by Robert Wilson, the Illuminati are founded by a man called Adam Weishaupt in Germany around 1700. Well, I could imagine, that in "Vows" we see a man in Wyvern Castle, who is a member of the Illuminati. Hmmm... that was around 970... Weishaupt is born 800 years later!!! So, the "Gargoyle-Illuminati-therory" isn´t the same like the one from the "real life", huh?
2.:Have you planed to show one of the five MAIN members of the Illuminati in the show?
3.: Matt is now member of the Illuminati too. Would he fight his new bosses, or work with them?
4.: If in our "real world" now happens something, like a murder case, and manny people say "Hey, that was the Illuminati", and the show is on air again, would then the same thing happen in the "Gargoyle world"?
Hope, you could help me with that.
1. Right. Or at least not the same as Wilson's version.
2. Who said there were five Main members? All I've said is that Duval is the leader.
3. On the surface he would work with them. Secretly, he'd be working to expose them.
4. Uh, do people in "our real world" really continue to blame things on the Illuminati?
Will Sir Pervical be the leader of the illuminati society forever or will someone else replace him?
what kinds of problems will the illuminati society create for the New Olympians when they reveal themselves to the world?
That's too complex a question to answer in this format.
How many members of the Illuminati are there in 1996?
Or for that matter, in 1974 and 974?
I haven't counted.
Would Matt have much success long-term in his dealings with the Illuminati. I mean, one conspiracy nut against an organisation that's a millennium and a half old doesn't lend him much of an advantage. Would he ever really expose them?
Matt would have some success. But he wouldn't do it alone.
1.When was the illumanati offically created in your universe
2. how does that symbol of the eqyptian pyramid with the eye fit in
3. was the illumanati found by the egyptians
1. 642, I think.
2. That's a long story.
Does the Director know that Duval is Percival?
this is about the 8 authurian survivors
1. merlin is trapped. for how long?
2. how does merlin get out.
3. who put him there
4. who is the green knight exactly
5. how was the pheonix gate envolved with the 8 authurian survivors
6. what was the price duval had to pay for his current status
7. in the journey episode, duval was on the phone and kept on hold....what did duval want?
1. 'Til Arthur frees him.
2. Arthur frees him.
4. Who are you exactly?
5. Who said it was?
6. I'm not telling.
7. To talk to Xanatos.
In the episode "Revelations", Mace Malone's key to the Hotel Cabal bears a large number 23 on it. What interested me about that is that, in conspiracy theory mythology, the number 23 is often held to be a number of great mystical significance in relation to Illuminati-style secret organizations. Was the number on Malone's key intended as a little reference to that theory?
If I told you, I'd have to kill you.
Another Grail-related question, this one about Percival/Duval. In the traditional legends, Percival is portrayed as a rather naive, guileless fellow, even something of a fool at times, ignorant of the world and its ways. Duval, as the head of the Illuminati Society, would obviously have, by the mere nature of the job, to be a very cunning and duplicitous man, a la Xanatos. When you gave Percival the role of the Illuminati's leader, were you going for a contrast between him as he was in Arthur's time period and the way that he is as Duval now?
I'm not going to confirm or deny your description of Duval's personality.
But I will acknowledge that time and tide have had their effect on young Percival.
I'm not sure when I'll get around to viewing the next episode of Gargoyles with my family, but I thought I'd get ready to ramble by posting my November, '94 memo to story editor Cary Bates. This was Cary's first Gargoyles script, so he was still new to the characters, which was one of the reasons he started with a single gargoyle story. Just Broadway, Elisa and a little Matt, basically.
You'll notice in what follows that some of the big twists still weren't present at this stage. We just hadn't cracked it fully yet. As I recall, Development Associate Eddie Guzelian suggested making the OLD MAN into Dominic Dracon. I was probably resistant a bit at first, just because of how much work that change would involve. But we all realized that Eddie's idea made the story much, much better. So the change was made...
Anyway, here's the memo, unedited as usual:
Notes on "The Silver Falcon" Outline...
My main problem is that as a mystery story, this is a bit of a dud. We want to stump our audience, but here, we're cheating to do it. There's no way they could figure out where the diamonds are. We don't show them any options but the red herring. And if we did show them the true location, the answer becomes too obvious, and frankly not tricky enough. There's a silver falcon gargoyle on top of the speakeasy. There's another on top of the building across from Malone's office. We check both. One has it. One doesn't.
We need a double entendre here somewhere. We're looking for a silver falcon, and it turns out to be something that isn't literally that. Or in this case, Malone is being literal -- the jewels are in the silver falcon across from his office. But for most of the episode, we're looking for a more obscure answer, i.e. the speakeasy itself. Best not to have a literal silver falcon gargoyle in the vault at the speakeasy.
Even so, it's pretty straightforward. So let's make the whole situation more mysterious. Let's not learn what Matt was up to quite so fast. Let's not have Elisa be a Mace Malone expert. Let's not learn about the loot at all until act three. Let's misdirect more.
We also need secondary suspects. I suggest the Illuminati. That's the name of the Secret Society that Matt's always going on about. It'll be a huge red herring, if even Matt thought he was investigating the Illuminati, when in truth he stumbled on something considerably more mundane. For us, this would accomplish two goals. One, it misdirects Broadway, Elisa and the audience. Two, it sets us up for a future story where we actually use the Illuminati.
You get major points here. The theme is partnership, and it's presented clearly. Let's just give it more of an arc. Elisa doesn't have to be thrilled to have Sam Broadway Spade as a partner at first. She learns to appreciate the back-up.
You need to start thinking about the Audience you're writing for. Vogel's murder in the other premise, was never gonna fly. Likewise, here, a major clue revolving around alcohol consumption is definitely out. I wouldn't be afraid to do a story about alcohol, if we were really going to focus on that issue, but not as a throw away.
Don't make him or his rookery brothers too young. They can have the occasional childlike response, but don't overdue it. Showing them enjoying a cartoon is one thing. Generalizing that they always are watching cartoons makes them sound like kids. Think of 19 or 20 year old Viet Nam Vets. These guys are warriors.
Also, when he's stone, Broadway is WAY TOO HEAVY for Elisa to budge.
And as flesh, Broadway getting shot is like anybody getting shot. Fatal. Or maybe he'd just bleed to death before sunrise. Even if sunrise were close, without surgery to remove the bullets, he wouldn't heal. Basically, what I'm getting at is that the gargoyles are NOT invulnerable.
DRACON AND GLASSES
Dracon is young and hungry. He's tough, violent, savvy, sarcastic. It's not that he can't get angry, but please resist the temptation to show him throwing temper-tantrums -- ranting (and whining) like a cliché d foiled villain.
He's got money, but he doesn't have the high-tech resources of a Xanatos. We have to be sparing with our use of that stuff. Which does not mean we can have massive gun battles with real bullets. (For S&P reasons.)
And if Dracon is not Xanatos, Glasses is not Owen. Glasses shouldn't quietly clear his throat so that he can feed his boss a plan. It's not that Glasses is stupid, but he's not the brains behind the organization either. He's an aggressive, tough and violent street thug in expensive clothes.
Let's also keep clear on Dracon's motivations and how they differ from Elisa's. He wants the loot, but he doesn't want to have to flee to South America with it. He's crossed the line by kidnapping two cops. He's going to have to kill them.... So he frees Elisa to follow her to the diamonds? Major problems all around. 1) Why does he think Elisa will be able to find them? 2) Why does he think she's even going to try after she's freed her partner? She has no motivation for finding the loot. She's a cop who's out to save her partner and bust the guy who kidnapped them both. (It's not that I don't buy her being curious. But that can wait until after Dracon is in custody.) 3) After she drops Matt off at her place, why don't Dracon's men sneak in and kill the unconscious detective? After all, they can't let him live. What are they waiting for? For him to wake up and come take them out? Etc.
Also, blowing up Matt's apartment is cool, but it has to feel like more of a last resort. Dracon doesn't want to draw any more attention to Matt's disappearance than necessary.
And, please note in your script that Dracon has a white streak in his hair from his previous encounter with the gargoyles.
CHAVEZ & BLUESTONE
Please do not play Maria as a callous boss, who doesn't care that one of her detectives has gone missing for two days. And yes, Matt's into secret society's and the like, but he's not the type to blow off work for two days in a row. Despite Matt's paranoia/hobby, he's a good partner and a good cop, someone that Elisa and Maria can count on.
On the other hand, Matt isn't psychic. He's seen gargoyles at a distance, but he knows nothing about them. Certainly, he has no idea of Elisa's connection to them. There's no way he'd casually decide that a "gargoyle" helped them crack a case. Why would it?
And we must resist the constant temptation to knock Matt out so that he doesn't find out the truth. We don't need it here. So I cut the drugged sleep.
Let's change Hacker into a real character that we might want to re-use later. An FBI agent who used to be Matt's partner before Matt was booted out of the bureau for investigating the Illuminati Society. The bureau doesn't officially acknowledge the Illuminati's existence. (All this will be a revelation to Elisa. She didn't know Matt had ever been in the bureau. Her surprise about this will add to the general feeling of mystery in the story.) Matt is persona non grata with the FBI, and Agent Smith (or whatever) can no longer be seen with him, which explains the clandestine meeting.
For future reference, the library is the other face of the same building that houses the twenty-third police precinct, above which is the clock tower where the gargoyles live. The library is closed at nights, and Goliath often reads down there. But I've cut the library scene, so it doesn't matter here.
1. Make the setting someplace other than a slaughterhouse, but otherwise MATT's kidnapping can play pretty much the way you had it.
2. Two days later at ELISA's place. BROADWAY is there to watch his video of the detective movie, (because Hudson is sick of him playing it over and over again on the tv set at the clock tower). Elisa gets a phone call from CHAVEZ. (Intercut.) Matt took some personal time to investigate Bigfoot or something. But he hasn't checked back in 48 hours, which isn't like him. And there's no answer at his place. Elisa hasn't heard from him either. This isn't good. Elisa's going to check on him on her way to work. Chavez makes Elisa promise to call for back-up if there's any trouble. Elisa says, yeah, sure, whatever.... (But she doesn't really think she needs any help.) Broadway overhears and wants to come along. He'll act as her back-up, her partner until she solves the mystery of the missing Matt. But Elisa's got one partner already. She doesn't need two. She'll handle this alone.
3. Matt's apartment. Elisa's outside Matt's door. She rings bell, knocks, calls for him. What she doesn't know is that the place has already been ransacked and that the ransack-er, a man dressed all in black and wearing a black SKI-MASK, is still inside. Plus another, bigger man in a trench coat and slouch hat (think Ben Grimm) is out on Matt's small terrace/balcony. (We should momentarily think these two men are working together -- the man on the balcony acting as look-out for Mr. Ski-Mask inside, but in reality, Ski-Mask is one of Dracon's men, and the guy on the balcony is Broadway. So in fact, Ski-Mask is unaware of Broadway's presence.) Elisa reaches above the door and finds Matt's spare key on the molding. She does not take out her gun. She is not expecting trouble. But inside, as she unlocks the door, Ski-Mask has his gun out and ready. Which is more than enough justification for Broadway to rip the terrace door right off and reveal himself, in a decidedly monstrous fashion. (NOTE: He does not crash through the glass!!) The clothes he's wearing should increase the scare factor, not make him look silly. By the time Elisa gets the door open, the terrified thug is pushing right past her and high-tailing it down the empty hallway with Broadway (who pauses only to say "Got you covered, partner") in close pursuit.
Ski-Mask makes it to the waiting elevator, and the doors close before Broadway can get to them. But Broadway pulls the elevator doors open and grabs the moving cable, which strains against him, until the elevator stops. Then he leaps down (about a flight) onto the roof of the elevator, shaking it's occupant. He rips open the trap door and yanks the guy up. By the time a stunned Elisa gets to the elevator, she barely misses getting hit by the flying thug whom Broadway has tossed out of the shaft. Ski-Mask crashes into the corridor wall and is temporarily knocked out.
Broadway climbs out of the shaft only to face the wrath of...ELISA. She definitely isn't pleased. But she's not going to fight with Broadway out in the open. They'll discuss things privately, in Matt's apartment. She indicates the thug. "Better bring him too."
Inside Matt's place, Elisa searches the thug, while she verbally chews Broadway out for interfering. She removes the ski-mask, but she doesn't recognize the guy. She does find a page that the thug clearly ripped from Matt's calendar with today's date, a time and a specific location (just saying Central Park isn't enough, it's a big park). Ski-Mask starts to come to just as Broadway suggests checking Matt's computer to see if they can find any info there. The thug panics, tipping Elisa off that the thug had rigged the computer to blow. She tries to stop Broadway from flipping the switch, but it's too late.
Cut to outside Matt's window. There is a brief high-pitch whine, during which Broadway leaps out holding both Elisa and the thug -- and then BOOM!! The force of the explosion propels them across the gap to another lower rooftop. (Broadway can't spread his wings because of his trench coat.) They land hard. Broadway drops both humans and the momentum nearly takes him over the roof. Elisa helps him up, and by the time they turn around, the thug has split.
Now Elisa is really ticked off. But Broadway points out that he did just save her life. Only after creating the dangerous situation in the first place, Elisa reminds him. Broadway's embarrassed, but tenacious. Look, it's obvious that Matt was working alone and got into something way over his head. If Elisa tries to handle this alone, the same thing could happen to her. We get tight on Elisa. What will she decide?
4. Elisa arrives alone at the meeting described on the page from Matt's calendar. She cautiously approaches a man, who turns out to be Matt's ex-partner from the FBI, AGENT SMITH (or whatever). It's tense at first, but once Elisa identifies herself, Agent Smith is very cooperative. Matt's told him that Elisa is all right. A good partner. (Elisa's a little embarrassed.)
So Smith fills her in. As usual, Matt's been trying to prove the existence of the Illuminati Society. He's been investigating a gangster from the 1920's who was rumored to have ties to the Illuminati and vanished mysteriously on March 22, 1924. Matt had found a letter, that he wanted Smith to authenticate. The letter was hand-written on Malone's pre-printed stationary:
3150 Third Avenue #45D, New York
March 21, 1924
Our little Society is turning a nice profit.
Everyday I see the Silver Falcon, I smile. You
would too, if you knew what I knew.
Your Senior Partner (and don't you forget it),
The ink and paper do date from the 20s and the signature checks out too. The letter is legit. But where did Matt get it? Smith doesn't know. What's the Silver Falcon? Smith doesn't know. Who's "D.D."? Smith doesn't know.
Smith isn't happy to hear that Matt is missing. If he can help Elisa in any way.... But Elisa insists she can handle it from here. So Smith takes off. Elisa stands there examining the letter. She seems to be talking to herself. The only real lead it offers is Malone's address, but what good could it be 70 years later.
And Elisa may never find out. Suddenly, we discover that Elisa is surrounded by three BAD GUYS, led by Ski-Mask. It looks bad.
5. Elisa calls out: "Broadway, NOW!!" And Broadway comes out from wherever he's been hiding and takes out two of the thugs. But Ski-Mask hops into a getaway car that pulls up fast and takes off faster. Elisa handcuffs the two unconscious thugs to something, but she's worried. She doesn't know if the escaped thug heard her talking about Malone's old address. They have to get there before the Illuminati blow it up like they did Matt's apartment. Broadway sweeps her up and they're off.
6. 3150 Third Avenue. 45th floor. Elisa's inside. Broadway watches from the roof. (We need to somehow establish that Elisa and Broadway both might have seen the Falcon-heads across the street -- and yet we need to do it in a way that doesn't immediately tip off our audience. One thing that would help is if the chrome falcons were now literally black with NYC soot and grime.)
There's a light on in 45D. An OLD MAN answers Elisa's knock. He's an accountant, working late. She realizes it's a long shot, but wonders if he knows anything about Mace Malone. Turns out that he's something of a Mace Malone buff. That's why he rented this particular office. He's got Mace's original desk and everything. Here, sit down.
Mace's mysterious disappearance makes him a curiosity, and every once in a while someone stops by and asks questions. Why just the other day, that nice red-headed boy was here. Elisa realizes he's talking about Matt. What did the old man tell Matt? Nothing. He ran out of here, as soon as he saw the picture. What picture? This one. It's an old photograph of Malone and a couple of other men (at least one of which is Dracon's grandfather) in front of a non-descript building. Does the old man know where this was taken? Sure, that's Malone's old speakeasy, the Silver Falcon. He gives Elisa the same lower east side address he had given to Matt, and the same caveat... the Falcon was torn down ages ago, they built something else there. Elisa thanks him as she ushers him out of his own office. It's temporarily unsafe here. She asks him to call Chavez and fill her in on everything he told Elisa and Matt, (and also about the two hand-cuffed thugs). She's heading straight to the lower eastside, as the crow flies, so to speak.
7. Elisa and Broadway arrive at the scene-one location where we last saw Matt. They soon discover GLASSES and his salvage operation. He's clearly digging for something, but what? Matt is there. Tied up and blind-folded. But before they can get near him, Broadway's weight collapses the wooden staircase, and they're discovered. A brief battle ensues. Glasses and his MEN use their semi-hi-tech construction equipment as make-shift weapons. Plus maybe a stick of dynamite or something. There's a cave-in that buries Elisa and Broadway. Glasses turns to Matt and taunts him. So much for the cavalry, Bluestone -- That was your partner. And she's dead.
8. Cut to a small cavity, with-in the cave-in. It's pitch black except for Broadway's glowing eyes. Elisa asks Broadway if he's o.k. He says he is but his voice is clearly straining. As she fumbles for her pocket flashlight, Elisa points out that there can't be much air in here. Will Broadway be able to use his claws to dig them out? Broadway has a couple of problems with that. The main one being that he's starting to feel real tired and that can only mean one thing. What? But Broadway is strangely silent and his eyes stop glowing. Elisa finally clicks on her flashlight and looks. Broadway's frozen in stone.
9. Outside, the sun has come up on a new day. Inside the cavity, Elisa realizes that when the cave-in occurred, Broadway acted as a living pillar, straining under the weight of a lot of rock and dirt, protecting them both from being buried alive. Now he stands there frozen like a medieval column. There isn't anything she can do but start digging.
10. Out in the main cave, Matt convinces Glasses to try and dig Elisa out. She's probably dead anyway, but she might have Malone's letter. If she does, Glasses' boss can stop looking for it. Glasses isn't dumb. He knows that Matt is simply trying to save his partner, but he can't deny Matt's sound logic regarding the letter, so he sets his men working.
11. Dissolve to a short while later. Glasses' men are getting close to Elisa, who's dug a little of the way out but is running out of air. She can hear them getting close, and she can't let them find Broadway in his vulnerable state. So to protect him, she pulls down one of the rocks above her own little dugout, and allows herself to be buried alive. Fortunately, she's timed it right. Glasses digs her out, but to all appearances, she's lucky to be alive and the guy in the trench coat is still buried under all that rock. She has Malone's letter. So the guy can stay buried.
Finally, DRACON arrives with the Ski-Mask guy from Matt's apartment and the old man from Mace's old office. Ski-Mask got to the old man before he could call Chavez, so there's no help on the way. (And Elisa realizes that the few minutes it would have cost her to call Chavez herself would have been well worth it.)
Dracon's fairly annoyed that Glasses hasn't finished digging through to the vault yet. Glasses explains the delay and produces the letter. But Dracon, shakes his head. We don't have to worry about someone else getting the letter, if we already have the loot. Dig out that vault!!
Loot? Vault? Dracon? What's going on? Matt fills Elisa in. Malone's letter didn't refer to the Illuminati at all, but to a bank robbing syndicate that included both Malone and Dracon's grandfather, Dominic Dracon (aka D.D.). Malone disappeared before he got around to telling Dominic where the loot from all their heists was. But the letter suggests that it might be here at the speakeasy. It wasn't found when the place was demolished decades ago, so Tony is convinced that there must have been an underground vault.
But how did Matt get involved? Matt had found the letter, among the younger Dracon's papers when Dracon was arrested months ago for grand theft. (Dracon's case is still pending. He's out on bail.) Matt investigated on his own, thinking he was on the trail of the Illuminati, and accidentally stumbled on this. Dracon kept him alive, because they wanted to make sure the letter was out of circulation. They didn't want anyone else stumbling on their little operation, before they had the loot. Matt apologizes for not keeping his partner up to speed. He really screwed up by acting alone.
Finally, Glasses hits pay dirt. There is a vault. Soon, they're burning through that. They break through. And inside... nothing. Nothing but a note:
Dracon is furious. But Elisa's not surprised. If the loot had been there, Dominic would have found it when he first received the letter seventy years ago. He must have been pretty confident it was here, or he wouldn't have gotten rid of Mace the day he received the letter. Dracon's a bit embarrassed by Elisa's superior powers of deductive reasoning. Embarrassed enough to tell Glasses to "take care of" the three hostages. But Elisa stays their hands by telling them she's figured out where the loot is hidden. Dracon demands to know where. But Elisa's not dumb. If she tells now, then she, Matt and the Old Man are wormfood. She's willing to take Dracon there. But it's pretty public, they'll have to wait until after dark, and we push in on the mound of dirt where Broadway is buried.
12. Let's indicate some passage of time here. The sun sets. Then we return to the underground chamber. No one's there at all. Broadway bursts from the cave in. He's panicked about Elisa. He finds Mace's second note and reads it with great difficulty. Will he figure everything out?
13. In a helicopter above the city, Dracon, Glasses and Ski-Mask are escorting Elisa, Matt and the old man to the roof of the building opposite Malone's old office. Matt whispers a warning: "They'll kill us as soon as you show them where the loot is." But Elisa says, "Don't worry, I've called for back-up. I think."
The building's too old to be equipped with a heli-pad, but Glasses manages to get close enough to allow Dracon and Elisa to jump onto the roof. Once on the roof, Elisa explains that from Malone's desk across the street, you can see these black bird-heads. And sure enough when she wipes the grime of seventy years away, she reveals the silver-like chrome beneath. Dracon probably has to check a couple heads, before finding the little bag of precious jewels that Mace had the bank loot converted to.
Now all Dracon has to do is get rid of his trio of hostages. He invites Elisa to step off the side of the building. And to his surprise she does.
Of course, she did it because she had already spotted Broadway, who catches her. (He didn't know anything about the loot or Dominic Dracon. But Mace's 2nd note invited "D.D." to guess again. The falcons on this building were the only other place Broadway could think of to check out. He's just glad he guessed right and that he was in time.)
Ultimately, Broadway takes out the chopper, without revealing himself to Matt or the old man. With Matt's help, Glasses, Ski-Mask and Dracon are all taken down. (This can all play largely as you had it.)
Matt thanks his partner Elisa for pulling his fat out of the fire.
14. And in the TAG at the clock tower, Elisa thanks her partner Broadway for doing the same.
That's it. Call me if you have any questions.
Why did Duval found the Illuminati?
To make things right.
2 Questions about the Illuminati
1) Is the Illuminati evil? (I think this because they help create the Quarrymen with that Phycopath Castaway)
2) Will the Gargoyles, Pendragon, David Xanatos, and their allies eventually bring down the distruction of the Illuminati? (Since the Society is proberly itself the biggest threat to all humanity
1. Not in their opinion.
2. I'm not sure I agree with you're assessment -- it's so sweeping. Anyway, I figured on having the Illuminati still in existence at least until 2158 and beyond. Forever's a long time. But I don't see it going away any time soon. Which doesn't mean the gargs, et al, won't hand it a few setbacks here and there.
I have some questions:
Is Ross Perot the current identity of Duvall today?
Is Todd Jensen the current identity of Mr. Duvall?
Is Vinnie the current identity of Mr. Duvall?
BTW, Guess what day today is ;)
Ahh, April 1st in your dimension Attila. But here in mind it's July 4th. Quite a different holiday.
So no, no, no.
What would have Duval's physical cost to using the Grail have been?
I don't want to say now.
What sort of antagonist do you picture Duval as being? Do you see him as a very malevolent figure, like Thailog and the Archmage, or a more "greyish" enemy, like Macbeth?
Both. (And that's not meant to be a smart-ass response.)
Is there any connection between Duval's Fisher King role (guardian of the Holy Grail) and those rejuvenation drugs that they give the older members of the Illuminati such as Mace Malone?
By the end of this episode, everyone is happy.
Both Goliath and Xanatos are afraid they've lost their edge. Both are convinced by the end that they've regained it. Both are at least partially deceiving themselves. [One of the little ambiguities that I love about the Xanatos tags is that one way to interpret them is that David is just full of it. He loses, but claims victory anyway.]
But David is just so lovable in this episode. You gotta love the villain who does NOT penalize his subordinate for beating him in a judo match. And he has such great audacious dialogue (kudos to Michael Reaves and Jonathan Frakes). A few approximate samples:
--"I'm the best friend you have."
--"If you're going to be picky, we won't get anywhere."
--"You're taking this much too personally."
And those were all in one scene. A scene where he's just standing out there awaiting their arrival. I mean, a guy as busy as he is... Is that confidence/arrogance or what?
And he's not afraid to get his hands dirty. Giving X the armor was essential. Up to this point, David had been only the brains. But to be a true reverse-hero, he had to be a warrior as well. Here we showed he had what it takes to mix it up. But always without being stupid. Question: How many of you knew the "red robot" was Xanatos in armor before the tag? Of course, now it seems obvious, but what about the first time you saw this ep?
And yet Elisa "Wouldn't want his karma." What goes around comes around. All that arrogance, had to receive some commeuppance. (Can anyone say Oberon?)
One thing that I thought was TOO OBVIOUS was the Steel Clan theft of the EYE OF ODIN. I would have preferred if that scene had been more ambiguous in Act One. Preferred that the audience maybe think that the Robot WAS Goliath, so that when Matt takes aim at the cliffhanger, we think he's going to shoot Goliath. The cliffhanger doesn't really play as is. Only Elisa is fooled, not the audience.
Everyone wonders why Xanatos donated the Eye to the Museum of MODERN Art. (Maybe because it had mediocre security, but adequate security cameras.) But what I want to know is whether or not Edvard Munch's "The Scream" is really at that museum?
Speaking of THE EYE, I may have mentioned that this was actually the idea of the Disney interactive video game people. We wanted to be synergistic, and I kinda liked the whole idea, so we put it into the show. It was another of our step-by-step additions to the continuity. Intro it as a minor maguffin. A dewdad for Xanatos. And build from there, with the eventual plan to actually make it Odin's eye. At some point in all this, we completely forgot that the idea came from the interactive people. We went back to see them months and months later and were reminded. Luckily the concepts hadn't gotten too far away from each other. But the design did. Unfortunately, our design wound up looking a bit Egyptian for my tastes. The Interactive design had a great Raven motif. (Oh, well.)
New characters (more or less):
A cameo by Derek.
The first mention of the Emir.
The first appearance of Travis Marshall. Michael and I worked this guy out together. He wouldn't be one of those fluff journalists. He'd be old school. He wouldn't whitewash David, just because the guy was a rich man. We always made sure to give Travis that edge. And still, I always felt we underused him. In this episode, Matt gives him a lift in Derek's chopper. Matt says, "You owe me one." Eventually, I'd like to see Matt collect on that favor in a story focusing on the two of them.
And speaking of Matt...
The first real appearance of Matt Bluestone. This guy was largely Michael Reaves' creation. (Although the "Bluestone" name was one of our earlier choices for Elisa's last name. After Chavez, Reed and Chavez, but before Maza.) At first, I admit I was dubious about him being a conspiracy nut. But it so worked. And this was the first time I ever worked with Tom Wilson. He's just so great. And so damn funny to have in the booth. (I love him in FREAKS & GEEKS.)
Matt & Elisa discuss the Illuminati, UFO's and Loch Ness. I love how dubious she is, with her inside joke: "Believe me, the world's strange enough as it is." Little does she know.
But my favorite thing about Matt is that ultimately he's a healthy influence on Elisa... "Maybe that's when you need one [a partner] the most." He's just a really good guy.
As usual, characters keep their promises. Matt vows to find out what those creatures (the gargs) are. And by God, eventually he does.
More on continuity...
Elisa's only JUST coming back to work. In cartoon terms, the fact that we waited this long after her gunshot wound, was a relative eternity. The height of cartoon realism. It doesn't seem like very long, but months passed between the original airings of DEADLY FORCE and THE EDGE.
And Chavez won't let her go back on the job without a partner. Michael conceptualized Matt -- after I mandated the creation of Elisa's partner. Cops have partners. It is one of the defining things about cops. When cop-shows show cops working solo, it always bugs me. I felt we got away with it for a bit. But it was time to make Elisa a more real cop. And that meant a partner. Not a bad guy. But someone who could potentially cause her trouble. And yet still really be her partner.
Broadway is still very solicitous toward Elisa. Taking the tv from her. It's sweet.
The show is gorgeous to look at. (Thanks Roy, et al.)
I love Lexington's line when he regains consciousness: "We're still alive. How come?"
Watching the show this time, my daughter was very nervous that the Statue of Liberty would be damaged in the battle between our gargs and the Steel Clan. But when Broadway nailed one robot by impaling him with a metal claw from the other robot, Erin said, "Nice one."
Goliath is reading Dostoevsky. Are you?
A fresh effort to do the eight Arthurian survivors correctly.
1. King Arthur
3. The Lady of the Lake
4. Sir Percival
6. Morgan le Fay
8. The Green Knight (the one whom Gawain had that encounter with)
Thank you. Come again.
No, wait! Eight points. Eight out of eight. FINALLY, A WINNER! And Todd, I have to admit, I'm kinda glad it's you, since you've been the most dedicated to exploring the Arthurian angle here in ASK GREG.
As to the speculation of how they survived, well, I was gonna make another contest out of it, but I realized it would violate my NO IDEAS policy, so...
1. King Arthur Pendragon. Slept under a spell in the Hollow Hill.
2. Merlin. Son of Oberon by a mortal woman. Imprisoned in the Crystal Cave.
3. The Lady of the Lake. One of the Oberati.
4. Sir Percival. The Fisher King. Mr. Duval. Founder of the Illuminati. Spends a lot of time in Castle Carbonek, a sort of mini-traveling-Avalon, where time passes differently. Also uses the Holy Grail to maintain his youth, though at a very real physical cost, due to his, shall we say, sins.
5. Lady Blanchefleur. Percival's wife. Queen of Castle Carbonek. She lives there and uses the Grail. The only cost being her estrangement from Percival.
6. Morgana le Fay. A changling in the old-fashioned sense.
7. Nimue. A sorceress with connections to Merlin, the Oberati and Morgana. (Think about it.)
8. The Green Knight. An Oberati.
Anyway, the above revelations are a gift I'm giving all of you on Todd's behalf. Thank him. Todd, to claim your prize, have Gore or DemonaCrzy forward your e-mail address to me.
Back in August I asked some questions about Duval, his name, and identity. I wasn't trying to figure out who he was. I already had that figured out... as you said, it's one of your worst-kept secrets. I just noticed that no one ever mentioned his first name, so I thought that it might be a sneaky clue or something to that effect to his identity... I was actually surprised when you responded that you hadn't thought of one. I would have definitely liked to see how that particular revelation would have played out in the series.
No question here, but thanks again for answering all of ours. You mentioned that you had wanted Ask Greg to be something sort of a dialogue... hope this is what you had in mind.
You'd be surprised at how many things I HAVEN'T worked out yet. I'm a little amazed I know as much as I do, but I don't pretend to have it wired. For me to really tap into the gargoyles universe requires concerted effort. And I rarely have time to do that these days.
How did you get the idea's and the information about the inclusion of the Illuminatus into the Gargoyles story line?
I think the initial idea was Michael Reaves'. We all just expanded it from Matt Bluestone's first mention.
Since you mentioned Thor in your last batch of responses, that reminded me of something that I'd been meaning to ask you for some time. You mentioned that the Eye of Odin came from a "Gargoyles" computer game (and added that you thought that the folks who did the computer game had a better, more Norse, design for the Eye than did the series). I read that in the computer game, they had a "Thor" robot as an opponent for Goliath at one point, armed with a high-tech hammer. Was the hammer an at least partial inspiration for the Quarrymen's hammers in "The Journey"?
If so, it was pretty subconscious. As I don't remember the Thor robot or the hammer, even with you mentioning it now. Of course, I never played the game.
But frankly, I think the hammers were a natural extension of the whole Quarrymen/Freemason idea. What's a gargoyles natural enemy? A hammer.
Sometimes a hammer is just a hammer.
A couple of questions about the Quarrymen.
1. What is the relationship between them and the authorities in New York? While obviously the local government figures in Manhattan don't know that the gargoyles are actually a race, and therefore wouldn't interpret the Quarrymen as a hate group, there is the fact that these people could be viewed as vigilantes, are armed with potentially dangerous high-tech weaponry, and their leader is clearly the unstable sort. Would the New York authorities be willing to tolerate them?
2. You mentioned that the Quarrymen would still be around in 2158. What sort of legal status do they have by then? Would they have become more of a criminal organization, like the Pack, by that time, outside the law and the mainstream public, or would they have some fleeting legitimacy left?
1. Not Matt.
2. Legal status? Again, I have always seen them as a KKK parallel. It never ever quite goes away.
Oops, sorry that last one was me.
As long as I'm here I might as well ask those New Olympian questions.
1) What was Spynx's occupation before she became an ambassador to the outside world?
2) When Taurus said Proteus wasn't like other Olympians did he mean that Proteus was the only criminal on New Olympus or that he was the only one that was an insane murderer?
3) On a scale of one to ten, with ten being a sentient android like Data from "Star Trek: The Next Generation" and one being a Steel Clan robot, how inteligent is Talos?
4) Do the Illuminati know about the existence of New Olympus? If not, how would they react when the New Olympians revealed themselves to the human world?
5) If The New Olympians were to become a cartoon show how much of the series would take place in New York and how much of it would take place in New Olympus?
Thank you very much.
2. Generally, the latter.
3. I hate quantifying things. I'm not a numbers guy. He's smart, o.k.?
4b. Quickly and with determination.
5. Again, don't ask me for percentages. A good amount in both, but I also saw the series as international in scope.
Something that I've wondered about Matt's pursuit of the Illuminati and plans to expose them. If he's correct about the Illuminati (they run everything behind the scenes, and even the President of the United States is their puppet), then how could he bring them down, even if he did obtain proof of their existence? They must surely have enough of a hold over the governments of the leading nations of the world and the press that they couldn't be brought down. (Of course, Matt does seem a bit on the quixotic side, and may never have addressed that problem in his search, but I still can't help wondering about this).
"Quixotic" is a great word for Matt. And he may be slightly exaggerating their influence both for the sake of effect and to help with his own self-justification of the pursuit.
But largely, he's winging it. Confident that one man (with a little help from good friends) can make a difference.
1.does the illuminatti know about macbeth?
2.does macbeth know about the illuminatti?
1. I don't know.
What's the name of the secret organization that Xanatos and Hacker are a part of? <And don't say something like "Well, I'd answer but, it's a secret, if I tell you, I'd have to kill you">
Do the Illuminati know about Brooklyn's time traveling adventures?
Well, first of all, let me congratulate you on an _excellent_ series. It was very refreshing to see a daytime cartoon with such an extensive, intelligent, and well interwoven plot. The first episode I saw was at the end of an all-nighter with some friends who were helping keep me awake to study for a final exam during my 2nd semester of college. By some karmic irony, the episode was entitled _Long Way to Morning_, and it got me (and my friends) hooked. (Any time any of the gang gets to reminiscing, someone always says, in a bad Scottish accent, "Remeber the quest for the archmage...")
Anyway, on to my questions... (I don't think any of them have been asked yet...) Hopefully, I've caught you in the right mood today.
1. What is Mr. Duval's _first_ name?
2. You've told us that Mr. Duval is the Fisher King, but does his current alias give some clue as to his original identity? (For example, Fox's original name was Janine Renard. Renard is French, I believe, for fox.)
3. Somewheres in the archives you mentioned that Oberon & Titania had two children, a boy and a girl. Are they characters that we met during the course of the series (in some way or another)?
Well, I'll keep my number of questions short for now. Thanks again for your time and efforts!
1. I've never given it any thought. Honest.
2. Why don't you just come out and ask who Duval is? Actually, I think this is the worst kept of all my secrets. Which should answer your question.
3. Sorry. Questions on separate topics, must be posted separately.
Do you have a story reason that the Illuminati (headed by the Fisher King) would use a symbol that's Egyptian looking?
Not off the top of my head. But I'd come up with one. Mostly that's part of the whole Masonic/Founding Father/Illuminati tradition/paranoia. Anyone out there know the origin of the eye/pyramid symbol and why it was chosen by those groups?
Okay, here's a few more. THanks again. ;)
1. What does Demona think of the Illuminati?
2. What do they think of her?
1. I'm sure she regards them as a threat.
2. I'd guess she's regarded as a loose cannon.
Was the Eyrie Pyramid in 'Future Tense' intentionally reminiscent of the Illuminati symbol? (a pyramid structure with a light on the apex)
If I told you I'd have to kill you.
What is the middle name of Mace Malone?
In "The Silver Falcon", there was a letterhead reading "Mason E. Malone", if my memory serves me right. What does the E stand for?
If I ever knew, I don't remember. I don't recall that letterhead. I'd have to review the episode.