A Station Eight Fan Web Site
Hello Mr. Weisman,
You've shared some of the pitches for Gargoyles spin offs such as Dark Ages and 2198 without potentially spoiling anything if they ever get a shot at being made. Would you ever do the same with the bibles for Spectacular Spider-Man and Young Justice? That would make for fun reading, but if they contain anything you wouldn't want judged out of context it's understandable why not.
I'm not ruling out the possibility.
Hi Greg -- thanks so much for taking time to answer fan questions like this! I have been a fan of your work since the 90s and Ask Greg is an amazing resource.
My question is: Back in the 10th century, did Brooklyn have a girlfriend or female clan mate he was close to romantically?
Not a question, but a comment. I was watching "Temptation" again, and when Demona first approaches Brooklyn she has this line "wasn't this like old times, fighting together side by side, comrades in arms..." and I have to say, kudos. Thanks to "Tyrants" and "The Gate" there so many more layers upon layers to that line especially. I could be wrong, but I never got the impression that they knew each other all that well prior to the massacre, so I used to wonder if the reference was generic or if she was just trying to make an appeal. Now, well... now the context of the line has changed, and for the better.
I don't know if the idea for their team up against Constantine existed in your head way back when "Temptation" was written, but I love moments of creative serendipity.
It didn't way back when, but I ALSO think they fought side-by-side in the past from Brooklyn's POV. Keep in mind there's YEARS of adventures in GARGOYLES: DARK AGES.
Will you make a Dark Ages comic books spin off??? I would like to know more about the lives of the Gargoyle characters. And by the way, I watched young justice and I enjoyed it! I can't wait till the series comes out in January!
I"d love to do a Dark Ages comic book spin off. But right now we don't have a publisher.
This discussion has been had in Station Eight a few times, and I thought I would bring it up here. It seems to me like one could make a case that Demona is the lead character in the greater story of the GARGOYLES UNIVERSE.
If one looks at "Dark Ages," "Gargoyles," and "Gargoyles 2198" as a three act story, Demona's story is the one story arc that really plays out through the entire timeline. She is there for all three acts.
Yes, Goliath is the lead in "Gargoyles" and Samson is the lead in "Gargoyles 2198." I think Hudson is the lead in "Dark Ages," but I might be wrong. And they all play huge roles, crucial roles. But Goliath and Hudson are not in Act Three, and Samson is not in the first two acts.
Demona, without being the lead in any of the acts, is the constant presence. Sure, she may not appear in "Pendragon," "New Olympians," Heroes of Ulster," and may only have a small role in "TimeDancer" and "Bad Guys." But if "Gargoyles" is the center of the universe here, and "Dark Ages" and "2198" are both acts in that story, it almost makes me wonder if this is really her story. You've got her youth, her fall from grace, her time as the main antagonist (or one of them), and then her eventual redemption.
Not to take anything away from Goliath, because I definitely agree that "Gargoyles" is his story and that he is the most pivotal character in that series. But is his story a large piece of her story?
I'm not saying it's all about her, because it's not. I don't think that or feel that, because this is all one huge ensemble piece made up of many stories, but like I said, she seems to be the most constant character out of all of them in the Big Picture. And all without ever being THE LEAD in any of the "three acts."
It's definitely an interesting theory.
Of course, I don't actually view the Gargoyles' Universe as any one character's story, including Goliath. To me it's a tapestry with many threads...
But I'm not disagreeing per se.
I have to ask, are Dragons real life creatures in the world of Gargoyles? And if they are, do they get the 'Gargoyle Treatment', like they are/were noble creatures or were they chaotic evil creatures?
And what would said dragons look like? European, Chinese, Japanese?
Well, we saw a dragon in the "Pendragon" episode. And one is visible in the Dark Ages pitch.
Since Bronx would not have even hatched yet when Dark Ages starts, did you have any plans to feature another gargoyle beast or two among the main cast of that spinoff?
We would have -- over time and episodes -- populated the clan with gargoyles and beasts of each generation.
What was your involvment with Chip 'N' Dale Rescue Rangers and Darkwing Duck?
On Chip, I was an executive in current programming, who gave notes on all scripts... i.e. not much.
On Darkwing Duck, I was part of Tad Stones' development team. I'm pretty sure I came up with the name Goslyn. Afterwards, I was again giving notes on scripts, etc... this was the series I trained on in development.
Will you ever tell who Tom's father is in the comic books or in a TV show if you made one? If so, would it be in GARGOYLES or in one of the 5 spin-off shows?
Thank you for your time.
Eventually, I'd get to everything. This might happen in Dark Ages, but a Gargoyles flashback or even a TimeDancer episode might get us there first.
Have you thought of how you would handle traditional gargoyle namelessness should you make "Dark Ages"?
I've thought about it a LOT. Probably won't make a final decision until I'm forced to. (The same was true about what to do about the Goliath Chronicles.)
Was Demona truly the best candidate for the job of Goliath's second-in-command pre-Wyvern Massacre?
He thought so. At least at the time. You can't deny she's a fierce warrior.
Did Hudson have a second before Goliath? if so, who?
I'm not revealing that now.
What was Hippolyta like? Why did she have a name when most other gargoyles didn't?
Hyppolyta no more had a name than Othello, Desdemona and Iago had names. "Hyppolyta" is a designation for us poor humans.
You've said that Hudson had a young daughter, a generation down from Broadway, that was a child when the clan was smashed. What was she like?
I'm not revealing this at this time.
ok have u written any fanfics?(cause im a bit confused in the matter) and if so what are the titles of them and were can i find them?(i have never really found a fanfic i hear people talk about) r u planing to use any fanfics u wrote 4 episodes in future gargoyles seasons(if that ever happens. hopefuly it will) or will u consiter ever useing fanfics from other fans (if u think it will work well in the series that is)?
I guess I have written a couple of fanfics...
You can find one here: http://www.angelfire.com/rings/katsaris/brothers.htm
And the other here: http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?rid=497
These are both Dark Ages pieces, and I'd incorporate them if and when the time came. Maybe in the comic book. Or rather definitely in the comic book eventually, given enough issues.
lets assume that you were given the rights and blessings to write and publish a novel based on Gargoyles. what would be your first choice to write the novel about? would it be one of the prequels, sequels or spinoffs or do you have another story in mind? what story would you most like to tell?
I have so many stories fighting for attention in my head gargoyle-wise. Really. It's one of the hardest things about the comic book. Deciding what to tell first.
But if the project were a novel, I'm starting to think that my first choice would be "Dark Ages".
For some reason (witness "Three Brothers" and the recent snippet from "Hyppolyta"), I seem to think of Dark Ages in prose terms.
But ultimately, I find hypotheticals like this pointless. In real life, no decision is made in this kind of vaccuum. I'd relish the chance to do a novel -- any novel -- set in the gargoyles universe.
It's not like I have copious amounts of free time. I really, really don't. But I do seem to have a near endless desire to procrastinate. So I wrote this. It's the START of something... stylized. Might someday use it in the comic or something. I dunno.
Anyway, it's called "Hyppolyta".
This was why she loved him. (She could use that word now, with herself at least, even if she had never said it aloud, had never said it to him -- let alone to friends and family or anyone else.) Not for the world-saving and the other heroics. That was why she admired him to no end. But she didn't love him for being a comic book character. She loved him, ironically, for being human.
It all started yesterday evening. After sundown. She had stopped by to see him before her shift began. He had wanted to go with her, to watch over her from above. But she didn't need protection nearly as much as he did right now. In fact, she didn't need protection period. He had growled at her in frustration, and she had more or less growled back.
She was in a bad mood all night, which didn't escape the notice of her partner. He took her sullen silence in stride, but as their shift ended he said, "Talk this out before your next tour. I don't need to suffer through another guy's silent treatment."
So she drove back to the skyscraper. Used her pass-key for the private elevator. She stomped up the steep stone circular steps and found him there. Staring out into what remained of the night.
She was ready to do battle. But he was quiet and reserved. He simply wanted to tell her a story…
He had been new to command, new to giving orders. The elders understood this and let him learn, let him make his mistakes, offering guidance privately. And his younger charges were impressed enough by his size and strength and office to follow him blindly. Then there was his… his newly named Second-in-Command. She had wanted this for him (and in hindsight probably for herself). So in those early days, she offered unconditional support to his authority.
But his peers… his brothers, his sisters…
He described one of these sisters, one of his many sisters. Tall, strong. Light brown skin, bald head and two sets of brow ridges that ran from just above her eyes to just behind her pointed ears. A warrior. She had never been one to listen much, even before he had been promoted. Now the situation had grown intolerable. If he said glide left, she'd glide right on her burnt-red wings, seemingly just to spite him. They had exchanged few words, just a growl here and there. Most of the actual heat was between this sister and his Second.
He could hear them fighting, almost every night.
"Where does this contempt stem from? You have never fought with him like this before."
"Before, he was simply my brother."
"Now, he is your leader."
"He has no more training than I do. He's never proven himself a more able warrior. Granted he's strong. But I'm not even sure he's that bright."
"He has discipline. Something you lack. And a vision for taking care of us all. Human and Gargoyle alike."
"Do you wish to share that vision with the rest of us?"
As he climbed the stairs, he knew it was time to fight his own battles. "Come with me," he said to his sister. "I will share it."
His voice startled them both. It was the one gift he knew he had at his command. His voice demanded respect, even if the words that came out of his mouth did not.
But she recovered quickly, and he saw the heat flash across her face. That spur-jerk reaction to defy him. But it passed. He had issued a challenge of a sort, and she was no coward.
She crossed before him to the battlements, her wings flaring off from her shoulders and right into his face. "I will come."
He bit down on his frustration and extended his own wings. She extended a wing-arm in mock courtesy, deigning to allow him to lead the way. He launched himself off the castle and heard her do the same. She didn't stay behind him for long, pulling abreast with a skeptical glance, waiting, he supposed, for her leader 'to share'.
He didn't speak. There was nothing he could say. They were the same age, nearly to the minute. She was a fine strong warrior. Fierce in battle. She was not unintelligent. And truth be told, he was no more convinced than she was that he had been the right choice to lead the Clan.
None of that was really the point.
He had been chosen. He trusted his predecessor, if not himself. And he would lead. He would find a way. Even with this sister...
To be continued... maybe... someday....
If you make The Dark Ages prequel, will it be on TV or go straight to DVD?
I'm open to either, but at this point, I'd say the odds lean toward it being a comic book mini-series to start with... if and when.
I have some questions about the way gargoyles were treated by the law over the time.
1)Were they treated equal to humans under...
a)Prince Malcolm's rule.
b)Princess Katharina's rule.
c)Anywhen in the future... maybe through the miniority status they have in 2198
To be extreme, would a human be punished for killing a gargoyle(or a gargbeast) as a garg would be for killing a human?
2)What is the position to the clan leaders(Goliath for example) to this? After all it is their right in the clan to judge about the different clan members.
If you're looking for specific codification in the past, you're not going to find it.
1a. I'd say they were generally treated better under Malcolm's rule.
1b. They were tolerated, barely.
1c. The future's yet to to come. But they received some protections under the previously mentioned Gargoyle Minority Protection Act.
I assume you're asking whether or not a human would be punished BY HUMANS for killing a gargoyle or whether a garg would be punished BY HUMANS for killing a human. As you may know, I'm not big on hypotheticals. But to cut to the chase, things were dark in the Dark Ages. Things are theoretically more "civilized" in the future. But "civilized" does not necessarily equate with "justice".
2. I'm not sure what you're asking here.
So, if the only Scottish Gargoyle with a proper name is the leader (i.e. Goliath) and Hudson was the leader before Goliath, what was his name?
Honestly, I haven't decided (though I have some candidates in mind). But I wouldn't assume definitely that what applied in Goliath's day would also apply in Hudson's.
Hi Greg! I'm posting for the first time and it feels wierd, since I tried to send questions 4 or 5 years ago and they got deleted. Anyway...
First of all, I'd like to thank you for having been (and still being) such an important part of the Gargoyles franchise. You (and others of course) provided me with easily THE single best animated show ever. A well written series great voice acting, continuous plots, characters that are believable, and a complex universe that manages both to include lots of existing legends and myths while still retaining a distinct identity. I truly think that in terms of all-around quality for a dramatic show, Gargoyles was easily Disney's best effort by far. Reboot is the only other animated show that I've seen that seems to exhibit the same qualities, meaning well-written, clever and quite enjoyable for both kids and adults.
Also, I'm happy to learn that Gathering 2004 will take place in Montreal, meaning I might actually be able to attend! I don't know if you're the one who chose the location, but if you are, thanks on behalf of us Canadians!
Finally, I'd just like to thank you for actually answering the flood of questions we fans send your way. And especially your god-like patience towards people who obviously never took the time to read the FAQ OR archive. I can understand asking about a minor detail that could have been missed, but among the questions being submitted, I know there are some LAZY people I wouldn't mind slapping once or twice in the face...
Anyway, I have a number of questions on different subject, so expect a few one-question posts from me.
This one would fit in a "Writing" category if there is such a thing.
1. Regarding your current master plan (i.e. your ideas for the various spin-offs), it's obvious you've given lots of thoughts to the initial setting of each. The main characters and their immediate goals for example, as well as ideas for early stories as well as a few ideas for on-going plots. A lot of course would be dictated by the characters (and your muse I'm sure) as the shows would go along.
a) Now here's my question: Do you have an idea about the possible endings of some of your spin-offs? I don't want you to tell me anything, just if you have some "Ultimate goals" in mind for all your spin-offs.
Gargoyles itself has always been very open-ended. There never was a single overlying theme to the series, it just kept going on on its own, the plots and characters growing in complexity in a very organic and sometimes unpredictable way. It could potentially keep going on for years and years.
But some of your spin-offs have very specific premises. There ARE stories that are better told if planned from beginning to end as a whole. Others however are better if left to evolve on their own. An aimless story could potentially "find its voice" after a while, leading to an ultimate ending of sorts. Or, the initial premise could be transformed over time, leading the story in a quite different direction.
For example, Star Trek: Deep Space Nine. Initially, the show is about our heroes trying to restore a people (Bajorans) to a stable society following years of occupation by an enemy race (Cardassians). Yet, after two years, the show introduced a much bigger menace, a race who sought to conquer and control all others (the Dominion). From then on, the show eventually lead to a huge war with the ending signaling the end of the hostility.
a) How do you feel about long stories? About those that are open-ended and those that have some finality set for them? (I hope I'm not being to vague here. I'm really interested in how you feel about this)
And about some specifics spin-offs:
b) Bad Guys: The basic idea is about our main characters seeking redemption. Do you know if they ever find it? And would that be the goal of the show?
c) TimeDancer: Ultimately, the very final ending is, in a way, already known. Brooklyn makes it home a lot older with a family. But do you already have some sketchy idea about how he finally makes it there, like some final adventure dealing with the Phoenix Gate itself, or were you planing on dealing with it once you were forced to, like a series' finale?
c) Gargoyles 2198: This one seems to be mostly about the war against the Space-Spawn but as you often say, "Things aren't that simple". Would the liberation of Earth signal the end of the series, or would you keep the series going with the existing setting once the war is over? After all, there might still be other threats like Coyote-X, the Illuminati, etc.
d) Dark Ages: Since this one could theoretically run up to the beginning of "Awakening", I won't ask if you have an ending in mind.
e) Pendragon: It's obvious now that Merlin, Mr. Duval and Holy Grail would be important part of the story. Do you have an ending in mind for this one, or where you again planing on seeing where the story ultimately took you?
f) New Olympians: This one feels pretty generic, and feels like it could run forever like Gargoyles. The ultimate goal I suppose would be the acceptance of New Olympus by humanity, but judging by the response toward gargoyles, wouldn't likely fit within an entire series, no matter how long it might be. Still, got an ending in mind, even if it's pretty open-ended, like "Hunter's Moon pt.3"?
Thanks a lot for answering.
Well, time delay means that I believe we met in Montreal (and, no, I didn't choose the location -- I don't make those decisions). You played Lex in the radio play, right?
1a. Some yes, some no. I know where Dark Ages ends -- with "Awakening, Part One". I know where "TimeDancer" ends... right where it began. I have a VERY good idea of how the Space-Spawn thing is resolved, but I don't think that necessarily marks the end of 2198. And likewise, I don't have a firm ending for Pendragon, Bad Guys or the New Olympians... but I have a good idea where I want to go with the first major arcs. As for Gargoyles itself -- that would end in 2198.
1a) [You had two (a)s.] Some stories -- whether long or short -- need closure. They're one-shots... no matter how long they last. Others can be open-ended. I lean toward the latter personally... because life is ongoing -- even after individuals die. But I respect the other form as well.
b) I'm not going to reveal whether or not they find redemption, but yes that's the goal. The thing is... even if I were to redeem all the original cast, the concept can survive them. And new characters may be introduced that give us a reason to continue. I will say, that I wouldn't be shy to bring a series to an end if I had no more stories to tell. That just has never happened to me within the Garg Universe. Not yet anyway.
c) See above for confirmation of your basic thesis. But I have a fairly clear general idea of how the whole dance, including the finale choreographs. But I won't pretend I have all forty years worth of adventures planned out to the last detail. I don't.
c) [You had two (c)s, as well.] See above. The war doesn't end the series.
d) See above.
e) I have endings in mind for some of the arcs that I plan to set in motion. But even the ultimate death of Arthur himself (which I was not planning anytime soon) might not end this series. I have at least one significant idea to go beyond Arthur...
f) Same deal. I have specific arcs in mind, and I have a solid idea of how they end. But I doubt that they wouldn't lead to more stories. If in fact they didn't and I was out of juice there, I'd shut it down.
Are the Timedancer, Dark Ages, and other such stories from another site, have anything to do with the orignial show?
Second, I have read several questions that mention future tense stories, are they on TV or where?
Thank you for your time and consideration with putting up with our questions. It is appreciated.
There may be fanfiction sites that have used the tidbits I've revealed, including plans for "TimeDancer", "Gargoyles: The Dark Ages", and "Gargoyles: 2198" (formerly known as "Future Tense"), among other spin-offs. But I've never read any of them.
None of this stuff has appeared on television.
Hi Greg! I've been skimming through these questions about the Coldtrio and a preqeul called "The Dark Ages" comes up quite a few times. And I was wondering....since it was never made to be a TV show do you think it'll ever be made into a DVD or video? I think you and your co-workers would get a TON of money from old gargoyle fans if you did. I mean you could introduce new gargoyles and focus more on the totally awesome Coltrio!!! Just a thought, please at least THINK about it....! thanks!
I have thought about it. A lot. But I have, so far, had no success in convincing Disney. Still trying though. I haven't given up. But if you want to PROVE to Disney that there's money to be made on Gargoyles, try buying the DVD.
Have you ever thought of a sequel or prequel to gargoyles?
Yes. The prequel is called GARGOYLES: THE DARK AGES.
The sequel is called GARGOYLES 2198.
For more info on either, check out the ASK GREG archives.
Hey Gregg, I'm new to this site, and I was just wondering... is there something I missed about Gargoyles? I mean, I know of Gargoyles, and The Goliath Chronicles, but was there some other Gargoyle show that aired after?
What lies ahead for Gargoyles? Do you plan on bringing them back to the air at some point? I'd really like to see some new Gargoyles cartoons....
There were proposed spin-offs, sequels and prequels, including
Gargoyles: The Dark Ages
The New Olympians
plus plenty ideas just to continue the "Gargoyles" series itself.
I haven't been able to convince Disney to do any of these things.
But who knows?
"Firefly" was dead. It sold a TON of DVDs and now they're making a movie, "Serenity". "Family Guy" was dead. It sold a TON of DVDs and now they're making new episodes.
Up until this year, the best single way you could help relaunch the show in some way, shape or form was by attending the Gathering, our annual convention. That's still true. So if you haven't heard, check out this year's con at their website:
The good folks at Walt Disney Home Entertainment took notice of the fandom, largely thanks to these conventions. They'll be attending this year with a video crew to tape footage of the con to put on the Gargoyles DVD, to be released later THIS year (2004!).
The DVD will contain all 13 episodes of the series' first season, complete and uncut. It will also have a commentary track and other extras (in addition to the con footage) that are still being discussed.
If you want to see the 2nd Season on DVD, and if you want to see Disney make more Garg Universe materials, there's no better way to get them to take notice than by buying the DVD. If the fans demonstrate an audience with disposable income, Disney will respond. It's not far-fetched. It's happened before.
My thoughts on "Avalon Part One".
First off, a little about the eggs. I honestly hadn't expected to see anything further with the eggs at this point. The reason was that I'd always assumed that the eggs were indeed all gone, as Xanatos had claimed in "Awakening Part Two", even after we found out what he was really like, for this simple reason: the thousand years between the Wyvern Massacre and the Awakening. Since I didn't think it likely that gargoyles live naturally for a thousand years, my assumption always was that the eggs had hatched long ago and that the gargoyles that had hatched from them had grown up, lived out their lives, and died long before as well. I hadn't taken into account the possibility of a place where time moved slower.
(Of course, thinking over it some more, I should have expected the eggs to return, simply because, if they weren't going to, their inclusion to date would have been almost pointless. After all, they'd had no real impact on the storyline in "Awakening" - the mere fact that the video version was able to edit them out is proof enough of that - so that would have to mean that something further with them would have to be done, or else why include them in "Awakening" at all?)
Regarding your multi-parter comments: I also prefer it when the first episode of a multi-parter clearly labels itself as "Part One". That way, I'm already prepared for the "To Be Continued" part. So I'm glad that you always labeled the multi-parters as such.
I was a bit amused to notice the Brigadoon alternative to Avalon, in light of the fact that you did manage to use Brigadoon as the Avalon-substitute in your "Gargoyles meet Captain Atom" story. And, yep, I was definitely looking out for King Arthur to show up at some point in this story, given that the thing that Avalon is most famous for is being his resting-place. (More about that in my ramble on Part Two when it comes).
Needless to say, I enjoyed the flashback. More 10th century Scotland! And more real Scottish history! In some ways, it was even more fun than the Macbeth backstory in "City of Stone"; after all, I already knew about the historical Macbeth before "Gargoyles" ever came out, but I'd never heard of Kenneth II and Constantine III before. After seeing this episode, I eagerly looked up everything on them that I could at the local library (although I wasn't able to find much, thanks to the scanty records for this part of Scottish history).
Constantine definitely struck me as shrewd when he provided a very convincing "innocent reason" for the secret meeting in the drying-house (the argument that it would be better for Kenneth's dignity to have Finella turn down his suit in private, rather than before his entire court). I thought he made a good antagonist here, even if for only one episode.
(I haven't seen the McKellen "Richard III" movie, by the way, but I do have a book that McKellen wrote about the making of it, including the screenplay, which I found fascinating reading.)
I also liked the mention of Michaelmas, which added to the medieval flavor of the story. (It's things like this that make me regret the fact that you never got to make the "Dark Ages" spin-off. Of course, I suppose that an animated series set entirely in 10th century Scotland wouldn't be all that commercially viable, more's the pity.)
I'm looking forward to your rambles on Part Two and Part Three, as well.
I have that same McKellen book. I've seen the movie of course, but I found the screenplay and his commentary on how and why he made the decisions he made, very informative.
I don't know that Dark Ages wouldn't be commercially viable. I do know it's tough to convince Network Executives that it's commercially viable.
About Castle Wyvern...
Now I know a wyvern is a "species" of dragon. Standing on his hind legs. It's either never had front legs or it's front legs evolved into wings, as bats have.
1.) Did you choose the name Wyvern just because it sounded good?
2.) Or was there a backstory to why that castle bears the name of this little known dragon species?
3.) If there is a backstory, could you tell us anything about it?
1. I believe that Michael Reaves chose the name Wyvern.
2. There is now. And if you come to a Gathering, you'll get a clear hint of what that is when you see the DARK AGES pitch.
3. Not right now. But maybe in Montreal. Check out:
Where can I find the stories refered to in different questions? Such as the story of Oberon and Mab, or the stories that take place in the future? I've searced for them but haven't found them.
Well, some of those stories just don't exist anywhere outside my head.
If you look at the Gargoyles 2198 ASK GREG archive, you can see the development I did for that imaginary spin-off. And if you come to a Gathering, you can see the original pitches for GARGOYLES, GARGOYLES: DARK AGES and NEW OLYMPIANS and the reel for BAD GUYS.
But mostly, I've only revealed tidbits here and there that at best might suggest a story or two. The only stories I've actually told are:
1. The first two seasons of the GARGOYLES Series. 65 Episodes.
2. "The Journey". The first episode of THE GOLIATH CHRONICLES.
3. An unpublished comic book script, featuring an untold episode from the World Tour. So far, I haven't shown this to anyone beyond my former Marvel Comics Editor.
4. "The Last". An episode of TEAM ATLANTIS that was never made, but which was written, recorded and partially storyboarded. I play the voice tape (featuring Marina Sirtis as Demona) at the Gathering.
5. "Once Upon A Time There Were Three Brothers..." My one and only stab at fanfiction. It's a prequel to DARK AGES... which you can find here:
At the end, it says TO BE CONTINUED, but DARK AGES is the continuation.
Several people that have attended the gathering(including Todd Jense) have noted that you had a picture of gargoyles fighting a dragon like creature in the dark ages pitch so was this creature a dragon or a magical construct like that statue in Pendragon?
Not revealing cool info to an Anonymous poster.
attempting to be the first question of the new year... as i was last year... first question of the millenium last year!
does Hudson ever feel guilty or have regrets for forming that alliance with Malcolm all those years ago? i mean it led to the destruction of his clan... does he ever wonder what might've happened had the clan just remained isolated? maybe they could've survived through the first millenium unscathed?
Thank God I'm out of 2001 questions. I was beginning to think I'd never get to 2002. Now if I could just get to 2003. (It's hard to believe that in September of 2001, I had actually caught up. CAUGHT UP!!!)
I think that Hudson, like all thinking creatures, has probably run all sorts of scenarios through his mind. But Hudson's pact with Malcolm was hardly the only factor that led to the massacre, and given the state of things in the 20th and 21st centuries, if we're thinking long term, it hardly would have made a difference. He did the best he could with the available info. Regrets, and he has a few, are too few to mention.
In an earlier response to a question about dragons, you said that dragons didn't exist in the gargoyle universe. But, in "Awakenings, Part II", Hudson stated that he thought a helicopter was some kind of "dragon". So, I just wanted to get your thoughts about this.
I don't recall ever saying either that dragons exist or that they don't. In fact, I'm fairly certain that I have never committed one way or the other.
(sorry, no questions this time, but)
THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU (and all those other people) for all the Scottish history in the show. Because of it, I am totally facinated with the topic. It's even better that I know cuz I am from scottish decent (as well as a little english and irish), and my other side came from france (sounds like someone in the show, ne?)
Also, it has inspired me to read Macbeth, and I used to hate Shakespeare!
So thanx again to you and all the little peoples!
And while I'm on the topic of scottish history, can you PLEASE finish "Once Upon a Time there were Three Brothers"? I'd make me very happy!
You're very welcome.
As I've mentioned before, "Once Upon a Time There Were Three Brothers" is kind of finished. For starters, there are only two brothers left. And although it wasn't necessarily my original intent, the piece wound up being more of a prologue to DARK AGES. So I took Three Brothers right up to the point where Dark Ages begins. And I stopped. To keep going would in fact be to begin Dark Ages, which is a HUGE project, that I'm not prepared to take on right now.
But I'm glad you liked it. It was, I think, my first and only attempt at Fan Fiction.
There's no memo, outline or script for this one on my computer, so we'll head right into my ramble on...
"AVALON, PART ONE"
DIRECTOR: Dennis Woodyard.
WRITER: Lydia Marano.
STORY EDITOR: Brynne Chandler Reaves.
...is all over the place. So much was coming together in this three-parter. The Weird Sisters, the eggs, the Archmage, Tom, Princess Katharine, the Magus, Macbeth, Demona. This was our most ambitious story yet. Which given episodes like "The Mirror" or "Vows" and multi-parters like "Awakening" and "City of Stone" was saying something.
Of course "Avalon" was never designed to be the cohesive single story movie that "City of Stone" was. It was designed as a tryptych. Part one would bring our heroes up to date. Part two would bring our villains up to date. Part three would pit them against each other.
"Avalon I" also represented the first episode in our fourth tier. The three-parter was what we called a 'tentpole'. We knew we couldn't air it until all the Tier 3 episodes had aired. And we knew we couldn't air any other Tier 4 episodes until this three-parter had aired. Despite the fact that "The Price" aired out of order, generally our Tentpole/Tier system worked very well. Out of 66 episodes that I worked on only two: "The Price" and "Kingdom" aired out of order, hopefully with minimal damage to the continuity.
The title was one of mine. But initially I wasn't sure that we were going to call the island Avalon. Now, it's mind-boggling to me, but I actually had my assistant Monique Beatty (who's now a producer in her own right) research Brigadoon to find out if that name was created only for the musical, or if it was something pulled from legends. I was thinking of Avalon, but looking for something from a Scotish tradition as opposed to British. Fortunately, Brigadoon was created for the musical. So we were 'stuck' with Avalon. Which made including King Arthur a natural.
Many series don't reveal that an episode is going to be a multi-parter until you get to the 'To Be Continued' line at the closer. "Avalon, Part One" could have just been titled "Avalon". The conventional wisdom is that people are reluctant to commit the time to a multi-parter in advance. That it is better to hook them on the story before revealing that they HAVE to come back to see the end. I always felt that was cheating. What is your reaction to seeing "Part One" attached to a title?
Another cool shot of our gargs waking up. Always nice to reiterate that at the start of our bigger stories.
Bronx gets left behind. Of course, this often happens. It was one of the things that the World Tour would set about correcting in a BIG way. But we made his getting left behind a bit more obvious here. Usually, he just doesn't go. This time they won't take him and he's sad. We were laying pipe.
My 5-year-old son Benny asked where Hudson and the Trio were going. I had to think about it. "On Patrol, I guess."
Then the GUARDIAN shows up. I love his cool, Goliath-inspired armor. My 7-year-old daughter Erin immediately demanded to know who he was. I wouldn't tell her. (I'm so mean.) Did any of you guess?
Of course he immediately encounters BRENDAN & MARGOT. (What would one of our multi-parters be without him?)
Then comes the three gang-bangers from "AWAKENING, PART THREE". As usual, Keith David does the voice for one of them -- making it distinctive from both Goliath and MORGAN, who's about to come in and speak. The problem is we got a touch confused. In Awakening, Keith voices the bald white guy. Here he does the same voice, but it's assigned to the black guy. Hard to say which is wrong, except by virtue of which came first. It annoys me though.
Morgan's fun in this. I really like him. No one but Simon DelMonte will get this, and I don't know if he even reads these rambles, but Morgan kind of reminds me of Jeff Goslin, a character that Cary Bates and I created in Captain Atom.
Anyway, I like how Morgan talks Guardian down. And I like how the sword is much heavier than he thought it was going to be. His cop buddies tease him, but he maintains his sense of wonder and goodness when talking about the Guardian to Elisa.
That's kind of a cool scene. First off he describes Guardian's armor: "Real armor. King Arthur stuff." Anyone think this was a clue to what was coming in the next episode? Even with the Avalon title? Then he tells her the guy's looking for Gargoyles. Elisa of course discourages her fellow officers from taking Garg reports seriously. Everyone who's seen one must be a nut-case. These guys should form 'a club'. Then she finds out that this Guardian was asking for Goliath by name. BOOM.
Site of our last encounter with Demona and Macbeth. Another clue.
Once Elisa got a look at the Guardian's armor, she must have thought -- yeah, there's a Goliath connection here all right.
Goliath shows with Bronx, who gets to come along and come along and come along for once. Bronx always seemed underutilized to us. We knew we couldn't bring the whole clan along. (Too many characters and no poignancy.) But Bronx was an easy addition. Of course, Bronx is also useful as a kind of living personality test. If Bronx likes you, it's a damn good sign. Bronx likes Tom. Does he remember him? What scents do you figure the Guardian carried back from Avalon. Anyway, Bronx engenders immediate trust in the Guardian for Goliath.
I love this scene. Guardian gives everyone so little time to catch up. He talks about the Archmage, reveals that he's Tom and talks about 'the eggs' being in danger. *That was a fun idea. Keep you guys thinking in terms of eggs for twenty minutes and reveal that it's just a pet name for the Avalon Clan.*
Benny asked: "What kind of Eggs?"
Erin: "Gargoyle Eggs."
Benny: "I didn't know Gargoyles hatch out of eggs." [Well, keep in mind it's been a year since he saw the first thirty episodes. And he's too young to remember the first time he saw the ones we're watching now.]
Then there's the skiff. Elisa: "Where'd that boat come from? ... To where? The other side of the lake? ... Wait for me!"
This all sounds fishy to her. Nothing makes sense. I wanted to get a clear shot in there of the pond in Central Park so that you could see objectively that it doesn't go anywhere. But I never quite managed that. I wanted you guys to be confused. Or at any rate to have a million questions. But like Elisa, no matter how suspicious, I figured you'd want to go along for the ride.
Mary, Katharine, the Magus and young Tom are all reintroduced. It's very clear that the first three have all learned their lesson from Awakening. They've all really become better people. Tom, of course, didn't need to learn that lesson. But he does learn to be a hero. He officially becomes the Guardian. It begins, I believe, as just a nice gesture on the part of the Princess. Later, of course, it'll become the truth. Then there's the long journey. I like the montage there. Hardship. We never had the time to show enough of the hardship of tenth century life.
Our gang heads into Edinburgh. Constantine's followers are all over the place. They all seem to look like Disney storyboard artists for some reason. ;)
There's some stellar voice work in this ep. Morgan Shepard as King Kenneth II. Sheena Easton making her Garg Premiere as Finella. Ian Buchanan as Constantine. (I've already mentioned Keith's versatility.)
But as usual, real props must be handed out to Jeff Bennnett and Kath Soucie.
Jeff plays Brooklyn, the Magus and Maol Chalvim. (No Bruno or Owen or Vinnie in this ep, I'm afraid.)
Kath plays Katharine, Mary and all three Weird Sisters.
Benny saw Finella and said: "That's one of the witches."
A year ago, Tom was his favorite character. Now Tom barely registered. And he really is fascinated with the Weird Sisters. Anyway, I corrected him, but I was glad that they were appearing later.
Ian Buchanan, once of General Hospital, is playing a cad here. We have to very quickly set up a lot of politics, sexual and otherwise. This story was as historical as we could make it based on the available research, the fact that we had to fit in a few fictional characters and eggs, and screen time compression.
Believe it or not, we also had another character originally that we cut early on because it was just getting too damn complicated. Katharine and Maol Chalvim's cousin: the future King Kenneth III. The father of Bodhe. Yep. That Bodhe. The father of Gruoch.
Kenneth III winds up being made High King of Scotland after Constantine is killed. To get a sense of their relationship, at least as I see it, you might want to check out "Once upon a time there were three brothers..."
(Or to give you a hint, ten years after the events depicted here, King Kenneth III would be murdered by Maol Chalvim's operatives during a civil war. Maol Chalvim was also known as Malcolm Forranach, the Destroyer. We used the Maol Chalvim version of his name so as not to confuse him with Katharine's father Prince Malcolm. Just as in City of Stone we emphasized Malcolm Canmore's Canmore name for the same reason.)
Anyway, Maol Chalvim seems intense but right on the money here. He's even kind of heroic when he and the Magus bring Tom back to Katharine's apartment, and he begs Katharine to go. Kind of heroic. He still leaves her. We were trying very hard to balance out his minor role here with his future roll as the grandfather of and major influence on Duncan. (Of course, he's also Macbeth's grandfather, as well.)
After Katharine tells Maol to go, there's a weird cut of him just standing there smiling. We needed some kind of transition before he took off running, and I guess that was the best we could do. But it's still awkward as hell.
But I'm getting ahead of myself.
We establish early on that Katharine doesn't think much of Constantine. You wouldn't know it from Awakening, but obvioulsy she's learned to be a decent judge of character.
Kenneth isn't quite so sharp. Everyone can see that he's a fool for Finella. And he doesn't recognize Constantine's threat (despite the fact that Constantine's father was a bitter enemy and) despite the fact that his son flat out tells him to beware. My thinking was that the crown had kept bouncing back and forth between different branches of the royal family. Kenneth had hoped that by taking Constantine in, instead of banishing him, he'd be able to be a positive influence on the boy. A nice idea perhaps, but maybe Kenneth was too innattentive to pull it off. And Maol probably was too covetous to really be a brother to young Con.
Anyway, Constantine tricks Finella and kills the king. We hear Finella sobbing, just to prove that she was neither in on it nor that she would approve of it. (Though one wonders what her reaction would have been down the road if Constantine hadn't spurned her in favor of Katharine. Would she have adjusted to the crime? Or did Constantine become an unredeemable villain in her eyes immediately? I hate to say it, but I tend to think it's the former. Actually, I don't hate to say it. She's more interesting to write that way.)
Erin asked: "He killed King Arthur? Why?"
That's a tough question. So first I had to explain that it was King Kenneth, not King Arthur. Then my wife Beth helped out by explaining that Constantine wanted to be king.
We come back from the act and we see that Constantine was ready for the takeover. The Banners are immediately changed in a scene clearly inspired by the Ian McKellan (spelling?) movie version of Shakespeare's Richard III. (A version I heartily recommend, by the way.)
We also continue to set up the Magus' own tragedy. He loves Katharine. Has loved her since before Awakening. That feeling is shown to deepen here when she is once again in danger. And when Constantine tries to coerce her into marrying him. (The astute Mary and Tom have to hold him back.) Here, we sense that maybe Katharine might some day return that love. That's what I wanted you all to think anyway. Did you?
Constantine takes his crown. Originally we wanted to stage this with the Stone of Destiny as we did with Macbeth. But again, I think we just had too many sets.
Michaelmas. I just like that word.
Constantine is fairly astute himself: "You have 36 very good reasons to obey." We kept reiterating the number of eggs for what was coming later.
The Magus disguises broken pots as eggs and vice-versa. But it always seemed to me that the kitchen staff at Edinburgh sure broke a lot of pots. I mean a LOT!
I like the lines: "Taking the wee bairns for a walk?" and "I don't think I like Gargoyle eggs." Very menacing.
Princess K burns her wedding dress. She feels she cannot leave because C will follow her to "the ends of the Earth." So the Magus responds: "Then I will take you beyond them." Again. Very romantic moment between them.
Finella joins the troop. The WOMAN SCORNED. She's really fun now. Dangerous. I always laugh when Constantine drinks the brew and collapses so abruptly.
Erin: "The Weird Sisters". My kids are just fascinated with this trio. I wonder if they still will be by the end of this three-parter or if like many fans, they will be disappointed?
They get turned into owls. But the Magus worries about giving up the source of his power. K doesn't care about that.
And Finella and Mary agree to take the book. I love these two. I think they'd make a totally kick-ass team. I doubt it would be commercial enough, but I'd love to do a spin-off show just with these two women. At any rate, there was the plan to include them as recurring characters in TimeDancer.
Tom has to leave his mother and his childhood behind. Now his role as the Guardian is a way for Katharine to make him accept the loss. It is the start of their relationship, though neither knows it. I watch this now, and I can't help thinking of the Anakin & Padma relationship and where that's destined to go.
Back to the present. We see the impressive shores of Avalon. Very cool painting.
Bronx reacts. Guardian: "He's found the eggs..." And the music swells and two gargs and a garg beast appear on the cliff.
Now is that a cliff-hanger or what? What was your reaction?
Erin and Benny wanted "to see ther rest!" I told them they'd have to wait a week and we got a lot of protesting. Just what I was hoping for.
Anyway, that's my ramble. Where's yours?
1.Did you intend the first part of the 2198 contest to be the opening prologue for gargoyles 2198?
2a.Do the other four spinoffs have opening prologues?
2b.Have you written all four if they do?
3.If so could you share with us the opeing prologues for Timedancer, New Olympians, Bad Guys and Pendragon?
1. More or less.
2. Not written out. (And there are five other spin-offs.)
3. Not interested in Dark Ages, are you?
Did Hudson call his mate something? (The way Goliath called Demona 'Angel')
Why is it that most of the main gargoyle cast of Dark Ages survived to the modern age in one form or another (Goliath and Hudson slept for a thousand years in stone, Demona was given immortality and Iago, Othello and Desdemona were resurrected by Demona) with the exception of Hudson's mate and Hippolyta? I mean I just find it a little bit weird that ¾ of the main characters survived making it seem massacre was nothing since most of the main characters we know survived.
You're looking at it from a skewed point of view.
I thought you'd be MOST interested in seeing the prequel adventures of the characters you know best and slowly introducing you to more. At any rate, that's the way I feel like exploring the past.
How that could make the massacre 'nothing' doesn't make any sense to me. Was it nothing when you first saw it in "Awakening, Part One" when you literally didn't know ANYONE who was destroyed except Demona -- who really wasn't?
Almost all creative work focuses on specific individual characters and the impact of events on their lives.
You might have answered this before, but I couldn't find it.
1) Did Goliath and Demona have any children in the 978 (Bronx's) rookery?
2) Did Othelle and Desdemona have any children in the 978 (Bronx's) rookery?
3) Did Hyppolytahave any children in the 978 (Bronx's) rookery?
1. No. They were too young.
2. No. They were too young.
3. No. She was two young.
How did the Archmage get the grimorum?
How did he become Malcolm's advisor?
What did he do before becoming Malcolm's advisor?
Why wasn't the Archmage burnt for witchcraft?
1-3. Not saying now. All part of the Dark Ages tapestry.
4. He was too useful for too long.
What did princess Elena think of the gargoyles at Wyvern?
That's a topic I'd like to explore in stories.
1. Were Demona and Goliath mates before or after "Vows"?
2. What year did Goliath get his name?
1. Before or after which part of "Vows"? The modern day stuff or the flashback stuff?
2. You know I haven't worked that out precisely yet.
wow, its beginning to feel like the time when i first found this site and asked strings of questions daily! anyway:
when the eggs of a generation hatch, does the clan keep the hatchlings in the rookery for awhile or are they generally let to run around outside the rookery with the rest? all these infants and youngsters running around at once seems to me to be quite a handful! how do they deal with this?
do you suppose that the kids of Bronx's generation were in the rookery during the Viking attack and thats why we didn't see them?
like maybe gargs make them sleep outside so they can get their solar energy, but at night they stay in the rookery, maybe?
just seems dangerous to have all these winged, horned and taloned toddlers running around the castle! geeez!
In DARK AGES, given the chance, I'd like to show more of castle life, more of human/gargoyle interaction. More of the generations of gargoyles who live there.
Locking kids up in the rookery every night seems unlikely. Though perhaps a wise course during a Viking siege.
in the Wyvern years, was the Trio kinda outcasts or loners of their generation? it seemed to me that they generally just stuck together with Bronx and didn't interact much with their siblings. am i right about this or did we just not really see their relationships with their siblings due to lack of time?
Mostly the latter. I certainly wouldn't call them outcasts. I just think they were best friends.
didn't the various gargoyle clans feel wary or even angry that humans were building their castles and fortresses over garg rookeries for free soldiers? i mean, it seems to me that the humans are like, "we're going to build our castle here, if you want to stay, fine, but you have to help protect our castle." if i were a garg i'd have been angry, Demona and Othello were right, not only were the humans totally asses to them, but they were also using them! why do the old garg clans put up with this?
now, obviously i know that the humans would make the deal of protecting the gargs during the day, but did they just move in or did they ask the gargs first? i'd imagine that most humans generally wouldn't bother to ask "animals" permission. what are your thoughts?
There's no ONE answer to cover every clan. There was a period, a semi-mythical golden age in human/gargoyle relations, when this was popular. I'm sure there were times when gargoyles were presented with little REAL choice, given their vulnerabilities.
If we're talking about Wyvern specifically, there was an alliance formed between Hudson and Malcolm.
Did Hippolyta survive the wyvern massacre?
Who said she survived to the Wyvern Massacre?
Did Demona and Iago get along in the Dark Ages?
Sometimes. It was a long age.
Hi Greg, If Dark Ages ever goes through, would there be any type of relationship between different clans, for example would the Wyvern Clan know the existence or be in contact with the Loch Ness clan?
Yes, eventually. And other clans too. Clans that didn't survive into our century.
At some point at the Gathering, I overheard you telling some lucky fan or fans when Brooklyn learned to read. I was dashing off somewhere, probably trying to chase down Kanthara again (whom I finally caught on Monday-- Hi Kanth!), and I didn't get to eavesdrop on the whole thing. It sounded fascinating, and like part of a larger question about which gargs learned to read when. I sure wish I knew the answer, and I'd bet money that your other faithful readers want to know too. So...
We know when Hudson and Braodway learned to read-- they started right after "Lighthouse on the Sea of Time." When did the other members of the Manhattan clan learn to read?
Thatnk you for your time and I hope everybody pre-registers for the Gathering 2002-- I did!
Thank you, Mary. I believe Brooklyn learned to read shortly after awakening in the twentieth century. I believe Goliath learned from Demona in the tenth century. I believe Demona learned from the Archmage. I believe Lex learned in the tenth century too. Angela was taught by the Magus.
(Lots of fun tidbits always get revealed at the Gathering.)
If Dark Ages got made, how much would you compressthe time of 23 years? Would it be something like 23 episodes, more or less, or have may events happen each year (with some multi parters to)? Or what?
I don't have it planned out by episodes at this time. But if it took 23 years, so be it.
You've said that gargoyles *could* live up to an old age, but that few survive that long because of the violence of the times.
1a) Were the Wyvern gargoyles constantly under attack in the days before castle Wyvern? b) ...after Castle Wyvern? c) I think you'd mentioned an event we'd never seen where many in the Wyvern clan were murdered, hence explaining their numbers in 994. Can you confirm this, and give us any details on the event?
2a) Are these warriors dying young, or are they dying as they start reaching their 120's or so, and start slowing down? b) Are older gargoyle warriors expected to keep fighting, or at some point are they able to retire? c) Is this expectation what's causing gargoyles not to live up to their 200's?
1a. I don't know about constantly. But there were problems.
c. I don't recall that. I did mention that the clan colonized a new location before 994.
2a. Both, I suppose. I don't like talking in generalities. (I like being mysterious, of course. That's different.) I tell stories about individuals. Just not here.
2b. The concept of retirement is largely human. Though Hudson did step aside for Goliath.
befor ethe Wyvern massacre, did the trio often seem to get in touble? when Goliath approached them in the courtyard and said, "you three! down to the rookery until i return..." it seemed as if this wasn't the first time they had caused trouble or at least not the first time Goliath had yelled at them... were they troublemakers of a sort among the clan?
They got into their fair share.