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Hey Greg hope your novel is turning out well I look forward to reading it.Anyway, these questions are about the mutates, clones and Labyrinth Clan.
1). For the most part how do the majority of mutates and humans view the Gargoyle clones? Is it more of a blessing more bodies or a burden because of the lack development and free will?
2). By 2198 how do the mutate members and the gargoyle clone members view each other is it animosity different origins possibly beliefs, respectful because of shared location or have they established a unique culture that blends the various backgraounds of the groups making alot more differnt than your typical Garg clan?
3) You mention that by 2198 the two different clans in NY would have different priorties which is why they did not merge. Is there any animosity from the two clans because of different origins?
4). We know Talon and Maggie can have children but could different members of the mutate group have kids with another like Claw with Lisa despite being mixed with different species DNA?
5). How does the current Manhatten Clan view the Labyrinth "Clan"(not yet a Clan I know) Do they feel like they need to show the Clones and Mutates, Gargoyle customs or is it more like let them find their own way and we'll give advice as needed kind of deal?
1. A mixed blessing, I guess.
2. SPOILER REQUEST.
3. I wouldn't say animosity. But they don't always see things eye to eye.
4. We don't know that. We know Maggie's pregnant. Anything beyond that is a SPOILER REQUEST. (Also, I'm not sure I understand your question... are you trying to mate off Claw with Elisa?)
5. More the latter.
And RAIN OF THE GHOSTS, BOOK TWO: SPIRITS OF ASH AND FOAM is going very well. In fact, I've finished writing it and sent it off to my editor at St. Martin's Press yesterday! Thanks for asking (and for giving me any excuse to pimp it!)
Hey, Greg! Love Gargoyles, excited for Rain of the Ghosts, and I just reread the comics and have a question about the clones.
We know that if gargoyles A and B are cloned, the clones, C and D, will have photo-negative coloration. Now, let's say A and C are female, and B and D are male. Let's also say that A and B do not become mates, but C and D do. The egg, E, is not artificially sped up, but develops over the ten year period. When E hatches, will its coloring resemble that of A/B or C/D?
Just curious about the practical application of the clones. Also, I think a Gargoyles Kickstarter would be a great idea! Have a nice day!
Oy, that made my head hurt.
Well, first - you need to remember that the color change was a result of the accelerated aging, not of the cloning process.
So the assumption that C and D are photo-negative assumes that they were accelerated. Not a safe assumption, but for the sake of argument...
Would E's colors resemble A/B or C/D?
I do not know. I'd have to consult my Garg-science buddies.
And now, here's a question about gargoyles, clones, attraction, and gender traits. I really miss the Blue Mug A Guests, this would have been a perfect question for them.
Male gargoyle clones' eyes glow red, and the female clones' glow white. The complete opposite of natural hatched gargoyles. I was just wondering, how would gargoyles who might attempt to mate with clones deal with this?
The only way I can extrapolate is by picturing human women with gender specific traits that only a man would have, or vice-versa. Most heterosexuals would consider such things to be massive turn-offs, unless they're a bit kinky. I know it's not as extreme as a female with a penis, or a male with a vagina. But I'm trying to extrapolate. Maybe like a beard on a woman, or breasts on a man. Okay, that feels a bit off too.
Now, we didn't see Brooklyn get anywhere with Delilah, he probably never even saw her eyes glow. And considering he was just seeing her as a body, an available female, I wonder just how much of a turn-off that would have been for him if he did make even a little progress.
On the other hand, we have Demona who was with Thailog for at least half a year, and assuming she is 100% heterosexual, I am wondering if that would have unnerved her at all. But, she definitely seemed very physically into him, so maybe she has bisexual tendencies, or she's just really kinky, or maybe she just didn't care one iota. I don't know.
What are your thoughts on this?
I don't get monolithic about this stuff. Different gargoyles would respond differently. To some, maybe to most, it might just seem exotic.
I was sure this was in the archive, but when I checked I couldn't find it. The clones coloring is different because of the forced maturation process. Is that also why Thailog's eyes glow red instead of white.
(I could've sworn I remembered you answering it, but when I looked to confirm the answer, even going into the Thailog section and manually searching for 'red' turned up nothing.)
I was reading through the archives just a moment ago, when a question occured to me about Demona and her actions during "The Reckoning." You stated that the reason Thailog did not clone Angela was that he did not have the opportunity to get her DNA at that point because Demona controlled the release of the mosquito that took the blood samples and when Angela was around, she just didn't release it. But she DID release it when Elisa was around (hence Delilah). My question is: Why did Demona, who despises Elisa, want to steal her DNA and clone her? My understanding is that she didn't know Thailog was creating a female replacement for herself, but was cloning Elisa or making a hybrid human-gargoyle part of the plan Thailog and Demona hatched together? If cloning Elisa was part of their plan, what was the purpose of it? What justification did Thailog give Demona to convince her to capture Elisaâs DNA? If cloning her were not part of their plan, why would Demona snatch a blood sample from Elisa?
Demona controlled the release, but not who the mosquito stung. She released a mosquito once when Elisa AND a few gargoyles were present. She didn't anticipate that Elisa would get bit, nor what Thailog and Sevarius would do with the DNA.
When Thailog produces his new batch of clones will they be carbon copies of the Manhattan clan, or will he have Sevarius dabble about to mix and match, so he has clones that are mixed like Delilah?
Why did Thailog not clone Angela? I know in the past you've said that Demona never released the mosquito to gain Angela's dna and that's why. But Thailog could have easily have had his own mosquito(sounds so silly when I say it like that) and got dna samples from the clan himself like he did from Demona and Eliza. Wouldn't he have wanted the additionally manpower? He was planning on betraying Demona anyway that's why he created Delilah. Why respect Demona wishes with Angela? Did he think the other male clones would be easier to control without another female gargoyle?
Your premise is incorrect.
When would Thailog have had the opportunity to gather Angela's DNA (before Clan-Building, I mean)? He got Elisa's DNA from one of Demona's mosquitos. We saw that in the episode. One presumes he got Demona's the same way. That is, the mosquitos were released and took a blood sample. It's not like Demona could tell them whom to bite. Her only control was to NOT release a mosquito. So when Angela was around, she didn't release one.
Well, I sadly can't buy the individual comic issues anymore. Since Disney won't let SLG publish any after 9/31, I'll have to wait for the trades. I can't afford to buy each issue twice.
I do have a question about the Labyrinth Clan, who are sort of topical:
We know that gargates gain energy by absorbing heat or sunlight during the day, and that if a gargoyle were deprived of this for enough nights in a row, she would eventually start feeling some kind of negative effects.
Given this, what will happen to the clones as they continue to sleep underground every day? It's dark and probably cold and damp down there.
Um, there are no individual issues anymore, I'm afraid.
I'm not sure it's all that cold in the Labyrinth.
A short response to Avator -- ~mammal~ red blood cells have no DNA, but gargoyles are not mammals. Other vertebrates have red blood cells with DNA in them.
Hmmm... I'm looking smarter all the time, aren't I?
Genetics, from Gargoyles in 1994 to now!
This isn't so much a question as general very late reply to a few things I've seen here that had been posted years ago. (about cloning, and how it was done in gargoyles)
I've noticed people mentionned dr. Severino Antinori as being some sort of real-life version of our catroon "friendly genetecist". It's interesting to notice that Severino actually said he'd have a first human clone done around 2002 and then said it wasn't true. The guy actually seems to be generally creepy and even fake-starved himself in his homeland to protest the refusal of the country to allow human cloning. Either way, it can only be assumed that this fellow who really was a genycologist to begin with (and not a molecular biologist), never did a human clone. But the fact is that he's interestingly as "scary" in his actions and words as Savarius.
To this day, few can say they really succeeded at cloning humans. Dr. Zavos is probably the only one with some credibility. But that aside, onto results...
While it's impossible to say how "well" cloning would work with humans, it's well known that it doesn't work much if at all for primates and other animals like dogs. Yes, it's been done with cats, horses, cows, mice, mules, etc--- but here's the catch. Most cloning issues have to do with the mother (the one who will be pregnant with the clone). For example, dogs only can breed twice a year and it's impossible to change that. So timing this with the making of cloned embryos is just too far out. WIth gargoyles I could see an even bigger issue here--- but Savarius luckily managed to create "in vitro" type uterus environment. I think just this would solve a whole lot in terms of cloning difficulty for gargates (or even humans or primates or canines) So already, even more than 14 years after the episodes were written, it's interesting to still see some credibility in the story of the gargoyle clones. Of course we're far from replicating the environment of a uterus and it is known that embryos implanted -elsewhere- in a creature sadly ends into the embryos becomming aggressive cancers instead of lifeforms of their own.
No matter how clones are of have been done to this day, there's always one element that is required, the ovocyte. Which means a female subject is -always- necessary for cloning (at least so far). So unless, again, Savarius had broken the mold... then it seems plausible that he could have used some from Demona. Of course that'd mean putting her under and cutting her open to get them. (would she have been willing?) And it would also mean that all the clones would have her mitochondrial genome (as a perfect clone can only be done with females, males inherit the mitochondrias from whoever the ovocyte was taken from). Now the mitochondrial genome has very important yet small things.. it basically commands your cellular breathing. What's funny about this though is that IF that's how it was made, then Thailog and Demona shared at least.. part of a genome ;)
While this is all speculations, perhaps it could explain why Bronx wasn't cloned--- because they didn't have access to garg beast ovocytes because... no female was around! (how conveniently credible again!)
As a last point... which is slightly negative though, is the usage of blood to make clones. Now the best cells one can get their hands on are stem cells, to make a cloning procedure. From embryos this works great... from adults it's still better than nothing. (when cloning females though they were able to take cells from part of ovaries that seems to give the best result so far) Adult creatures still have stem cells around, some in the spinal cord for example... and even some in the skin! So it's sort of great that "Thailog" material came from a robot scratching Goliath. It can be assumed they used the skin material and not the blood... but sadly this can't apply to the robot musquitos that they used for the others.
Now why is that--- well red blood cells simply have no nucleus so they have no genome DNA. At all. And while you can still have white blood cells... which have DNA... well those simply give -awful- result for cloning so far. It's been done, yes, but with less than 0.3% even on animals easily cloned. Now I'm not sure how much blood those musquitos took but it seems very unlikely that they found enough material to even do a successful cloning with white blood cells in there.
Now with that said, and forward to the comic, it seems Thailog took consierable quantities of blood from each gargoyle again for genetic issues.... which would probably give a better yield than just a drop or two. Still we can say they got skin cells from it to work with... I like to think, in the light of this, that there's some sort misconception about how blood carries "life" in itself... and while this falls into psychology it's sort of silly since we know that "breeding" has little to do with blood, unless you're a vampire ;)
Seeing what another person wrote on the subject, I think it is interesting to note the difference between clones and clonee. It's true "calico" female cats cloned didn't always have the color of their cloned parent. That's because female calico cats have their color on the X chromosome and they have two X chromosomes like humans... and that randomly one X is inactivated at some point thus resulting sometimes in patched colors and sometimes not. This has nothing to do with DNA on it's own, but rather is something that happens well after an embryo is made. I'm fairly sure this means cloned -male- cats would effectivly be the same color than their "father". And unless gargoyles also have their colors on a simili-X chromosome in the same way humans and cats function, then there's no reason the clone would be another color except through epi-genetics (which genes activate and which don't or chromosome inactivation etc) or... as you said... something to do with Savarius' tampering. (So I think that explanation still holds really well and is probably the best)
But what I really enjoyed most of all in the show is how clones were really perceeved as nothig more than twin brothers (or a child) whose mentality had nothing to do with the person whose genes they inherited, but really with their education. Even to this day there's so many people trying to trick the population (specially those with money to waste) in thinking that their clones will carry their spirits, which is plain out ridiculous....
So all this was my two cents, or maybe two dollars ;) To say that I really love how cloning was tackled in the show, it's far more realistic than most would have had it.
I'm glad... since of course I know NOTHING.