A Station Eight Fan Web Site
I just realized how long it has been since you've dropped by (I had a hard time finding the end of the page). This one is quick.
I need to know if you are planning to do an episode about the Fourth Race. I know it hasn't been mentionned, but since I have discovered them, I need to know if I have to hurry up and get published before someone else does.
(Not that it wouldn't be complimentary to be beaten by you, but you know - copyrights and all that...)
You have a skewed idea of ownership, or so it seems to me. Fanfic-wise, do whatever you want. But copyrighting anything based on a property you have NO rights in isn't an issue. Or else I don't understand at all what you're talking about.
As it is, I don't know what you mean by the fourth race either.
And again, I'm no lawyer.
My question is actually a permission. If I have used events in the Gargoyles animation and saga in a novel, do I need to ask Greg's permission or can I simply post a Disclaimer saying that Gargoyles are the property of Disney and the events from the Saga are used without permission?
I'm no lawyer, so I'm not qualified to give you any advice. But if you're writing for only your own amusement I think you're safe. On the other hand, if you plan on trying to make even a penny off your work, than you'd need permission from Disney. And good luck there.
But again, I'm no lawyer.
what did you imagine the other Avalon beast (besides Boudikka) looks like? more like Bronx, perhaps a biological relative, younger sister? i don't suppose you know the name of this beast, do you? if so, what is its name? why didn't Bronx go for this beast over Boudikka, or did he mate with both? did Boudikka just smell better, or not smell like a biological relative, or is Boudikka more attractive in a non-olfatory way to Bronx?
Ahh, who can explain this crazy little thing called love?
So, are you in the mood yet to tell us about Lexington's mate? :)
Knight to king's bishop four.
Hey, is there any chance of the gargoyles show being brought back to life?
Yes. See the archive entitled: "Bringing Gargoyles Back".
in "Awakening" right before Goliath asks to have the sleep spell put on him, he asks the Princess to take care of the eggs. why was she thinking that Goliath was asking her this? why wasn't she confused thinking that Goliath could do a better job of raising the Hatchlings than her? did she figure that Goliath was going to ask for the sleep spell? she seemed surprised when he asked. i know she put her heart into raising these children and has been a great mother for them but i was really surprised that she wasn't scared to death when Goliath asked her this life-long favor, i would have been, what a responsibility!
I'm not saying she wasn't intimidated, but she felt she could not deny him anything, under the circumstances.
What is Talon's view on homosexuality?
And we're done.
Were you inspired in someway by Quantum Leap while making Timedancer?
Not really. Plenty of time travel stuff pre-dates QL.
And I'm much stricter about time-travel rules than that show.
What is David Xanato's view on homosexuality?
Okay, that's what I figured. Sapphire, did you think this might get a little dull?
David doesn't care. Most of my characters don't.
1)Why are the London gargoyles only limited to lions,horses and birds? That seems kinda silly.
2) How many eggs hatched to the London clan in 1998?
3) How many beasts does this clan have?
4) How many children do Leo and Una have?
5) Will Griff find a mate?
6) Why is Una the leader?
7)Shouldn't one of the younger generation take over?
1. You're thinking about this backwards. You might as easily ask why are the Wyvern gargoyles limited to what you've seen of them? And at any rate, you've got it wrong. The London gargs vaguely resemble various combinations of Griffin, Winged Lion and Winged Unicorn.
2. I'm not going to answer this at this time.
4. Many clan-children.
5. Not telling.
6. That's complex. Why is Goliath the leader? It's how things turned out. I will say, that she's highly intelligent, and has done a good job at keeping the clan safe.
7. Eventually. What's your hurry?
as i am in england,our flipping(tm)english t.v studios have not show the intire series,so i missed out of half the gargoyles,i never even got to see goliath and elisa kiss.
i am intrested in the characters kai and his clan,could you tell me what kai is like as a person,and his clan
thanks you forever for thinking of this wonderful cartoon
Kai is a dedicated leader of the old school, literally. He is Bushido master in Ishimura. His clan has lived in peace and secrecy with the humans of Ishimura for centuries.
What else do you want to know?
Try to be specific.
In gargoyle society we see how males and females are considered equal like in Goliath's clan but is there
a gargoyle clan in which males are dominant?
In the gargoyles universe with the exception of Elisa's and Goliath's relationship has there ever been another love relationship between a human and a gargoyle
Ever's a long time. But it is FAR from common.
by "Ill met by Midnight" are Gabriel and Opheila allready chosen mates or do they decide that later? seeing as how Tom and Katherine are human and raised the gargs as brothers and sisters in a human fashion what is T and K's reaction to the coupling of the eggs? if i am wrong in how they were raised than correct me, please, but neither Tom nor Katherine was very knowledgable in garg customs, were they? did they raise the gargs in a garg way as best they could or just as they would human children and garg instincts took over for the rest?
Moonlight, not midnight.
You're mostly wrong. I think Tom and Katharine and the Magus realized that these eggs represented an entire generation, not just a bunch of siblings. Relationships developed. Some fraternal, others romantic. The humans attempted to mimic gargoyle customs, which the Magus had some information on.
And Gabe and Ophelia were certainly romantically involved by Ill Met.
What is Demona's view on homosexuality?
Why do I sense I'm about to get a whole set of questions in this mode, one per character?
I don't think it's a big issue for her.
i thought i'd share a interesting story:
i know alot of people write in here and in other sites, etc. about how Angela should have ended up with Brooklyn and not Broadway. Greg, you are so right in your reasons why Broadway and Angela ended up together and i'm happy to say that i knew they would, but the funny thing is why i believed that they'd end up together. when Angela first joined the cast i figured that she'd end up with one of the trio (although i did think there was something between her and Gabriel, but thats another story). of course, i wanted to know which one she would end up with so i began to think about these four characters. my analysis, correct, but flawed, was that Lex was too small in stature, Brook had a beak, so kissing was very hard to do, so it had to be Broadway. until i started posting here i didn't know that kissing wasn't a garg custom, afterall, Coldstone and Coldfire kissed in cyberspace, Elisa kissed Goliath, and Angela kissed all three of the trio on the cheek and later Broadway on the mouth. i thought, how can Brook kiss Angela with that beak! i know its stupid and i really should have learned that there were other factors but i guess i couldn't get past garg appearences, i'm such a human...
Yes, such a human. Angela's choice (if you want to call it that) had little to do with beaks or height or weight. It was the garg inside.
So the meeting between us and Kenner happened, most likely on June 30th, 1993. They brought this document to the table. It's very enlightening, I think, as to how a major toy company thinks. You'll notice that their "main concerns" didn't cause us to alter the show at all. Save for adding in a motorcycle and helicopter here and there. There were some things that they were concerned about that we were just able to reassure them about. That the Trio would not just be silly. That Xanatos would eventually get down and dirty with his own armor, etc.
My handwritten notes at the bottom were things we discussed at the meeting, also to help aleviate their concerns. "Franken-goyle" eventually became Coldstone. "X's Metal/Steel/Titanium Gargoyles" became the Steel Clan Robots. We were trying to show Kenner that we'd have some "male villain gargoyles" in addition to Demona.
MAIN STORY ELEMENTS
* Ageless goodness and loyalty vs. modern opportunism.
* Powerful myths.vs. powerful high tech "realities".
* Goliath vs. Demona.
* Goliath vs. Xavier.
* Goliath and his five ancient gargoyles.
* Elisa and her gargoyle team; especially Goliath.
* Xavier and Demona.
* Xavier and his subordinates.
* Huge, powerful, and ugly.
* Immortal by night; inert and powerless by day.
* Ancient, decent, loyal, and wise.
* Possesses leadership qualities.
* Visual power, strength of living gargoyles.
* Day vs. night power phases of protagonists.
* Humorous possibilities of gargoyle assimilation into contemporary New York.
* Traditional good vs. evil conflict.
* Severe visual contradiction of scary/ugliness as good (Goliath); deceptively normal is bad (Xavier, his gladiators, etc.)
* Limited number of heroic characters.
* Key human ally is female (Elisa).
* Key/only evil gargoyle is female (Demona).
* Industrialist as the evil adversary is very familiar and very difficult to translate into an exciting toy. A visually more powerful and more unique enemy would be preferable or increase his powers through armorment [sic].
* Lack of significant special hardware and vehicles for both good and evil.
* Described back story (especially enduring- love/hate relationship between Goliath and Demona) may be too complex for 5-year old boys.
* Four of the six gargoyles (Trio and Dog) appear less aggressive and silly than heroic.
* Breaking the Gargoyles kills them.
[My handwritten notes on the document follow:]
* Franken-goyle & Demona
* Pack / Xavier / Scarab Corp / Vehicles etc.
* X's Metal / Steel / Titanium Gargoyles
Time to Ramble...
My three year old son Ben watched the opening titles for about the five hundredth time. On the one hand, he made the point that it was getting dull seeing this same opening. He wanted me to fast-forward to the actual story.
On the other hand, he spent the time reviewing "the rules". How the gargs turn to stone during the day. How Goliath is the leader. Etc.
One thing we always cheated on was how Fortress-2 landed. There it is on the ground awaiting it's maiden voyage, and I just don't see any landing gear.
Vogel is introduced. This is another thing where I had to carefully explain my long-term intent behind the screen in order to get a model for the character that really looked like Owen but wasn't his twin. I remember a lot of people on the Disney Afternoon mailing list reacting negatively to Preston in this episode. Like he was a feeble imitation of Owen. Like we didn't know how to do any other kind of executive assistant. I was simultaneously amused and annoyed by those kind of comments. So now I'm curious. What was your initial reaction to Vogel? And what do you think of him now?
As usual, Travis has old-school attitude when interviewing his subjects. I like that. Makes him more of a character and not just a reporter place-holder.
Fox in casual clothes. With a very casual, yet strangely intense attitude. "I know what happens next," Fox says to David.
My six year old daughter Erin asked, "Why is she watching [Travis' report] like that?" She could tell something was up there.
And in fact, like UPGRADE, this was another episode where we were intentionally trying to show that Fox was David's equal. We show it physically in their martial arts work out. And we show it by giving her a ruthless and complex plot to take Cyberbiotics. In fact, in this episode, when you add in the fact that David is clearly in the dark about her pregnancy test, she seems to be a little equaler than he is.
Fortress-2 takes off. And Goliath sends us into flashback. This is flat-out padding. For some reason, though the script is the same basic length as any of our scripts, this one timed out short after story-boarding was done. (Most of my stories time out too long.) So we added this flashback. I think it was a mistake. It kills the stories momentum, and we already had the sequence later where Renard shows all the important scenelets to Goliath. Those become incredibly redundant. When you add in the "Previously on Gargoyles" opening, it was just too much.
Elisa reveals the show's Hill Street Blues influence by telling Goliath to "be careful out there."
Goliath gets attacked by cybots. As noted, any individual cybot is no match for him. But they have strength in numbers. I wanted to show that Goliath can still kick some ass when motivated. So the cybots shoot at him. And his only response is "That. Stings." Very intense. Unfortunately, I think sound-wise the line gets buried.
And that's a general problem with the episode. On a technical level this just wasn't one of our best. The animation isn't awful, but it's mediocre. Goliath's size relationship gets screwed up here and there. (Particularly in the brig sequences.) The story's padded by flashbacks. Our normally great sound team, didn't do the most inspiring job on this one either. It just generally feels like one that got away from us.
I still think there's some great stuff in it. And the revelation of Fox's pregnancy actually makes it something of a landmark (both for our series and for animated series in general), but the execution never quite lived up to its potential. Oh, well.
CONTINUITY & INTRIGUE
Did anyone remember Cyberbiotics before this ep? Had you ever wondered who Xanatos was stealing from in the pilot? We knew that Cyberbiotics abandoned their underground base, which became the home of the Mutates. Now we were rebuilding the air fortress and revealing that the CYberbiotics Tower is still in business.
Also, Renard mentions Gen-U-Tech. And the revelation that Sevarius and Burnett used to work for Cyberbiotics. Of course, Renard thinks that Xanatos stole Sevarius and Owen away. We know better. We knew even then that Sevarius is much better suited to work for a man like Xanatos than Renard. And of course, now we know why Owen was Xanatos-bound as well. But what did you guys think of that minor revelation at the time?
Renard's opinion of Xanatos is probably colored by his relationship to his daughter: "And that's the least that viper has stolen from me." Did you stop at that moment to consider what that meant and what he meant by the "My Anastasia. My Janine." line? Did anyone (from Renard's name, if nothing else) guess that Fox was his daughter, before the tag? Who did you think Anastasia and Janine were at that time? Or did Goliath's follow up line, "My angel of the night." distract you from considering these questions?
At this point, just before the Janine line, Erin (who has seen these before, but not recently) remembered: "That's Fox's daddy!"
Goliath has some cool lines here too. "I belong to no one." "I serve no master."
And Renard (voiced by Robert Culp to perfection) has some great lines too: "Not my fault, not my fault. You sound like every human employee I've ever FIRED." and "Take some responsibility."
What was fun for me, although maybe for no one else, was (a) to get some hard thoughts about both the need and the difficulty of maintaining personal integrity up onto the screen and (b) doing that by lecturing to Goliath, arguably one of the most "integrous" characters I've ever written. (b) served (a), by showing that even Goliath can be prone to slipping.
The thing is that integrity really matters to me. And yet, I don't know how much of it I exercise in my own life. I really do try. But it's so hard. And not because I'm a dishonest person, but more because I'm lazy. It's easier to shift blame, to tell white lies, etc. The alternative takes effort and vigilance. I think the rewards are immense, even if the costs are too. But I ain't kidding myself about the difficulty.
The martial arts scene. Reminiscent of the scene from the Edge where Owen toppled David. Here we hinted even more strongly that Fox is Renard's daughter. David is basically giving her permission to back out of the plan, to save face and exit, BEFORE she destroys her father. It's not that David really cares about Halcyon. I think he's thinking about his relationship to his own father. David likes to believe (at this stage in the series) that he's evolved beyond the need for a parental relationship. But "Vows" sort of demonstrates that his relationship with Petros is much more complex than that. David still needs parental approval and is somewhat amazed (at least subconsciously) that Fox does not. Again, in this episode, Fox is more than his equal.
And now the doctor calls with test results. David shows legitimate fear here for a moment. He's not thinking pregnancy. He's worried maybe she's sick or something. She enjoys toying with him. Maybe she's just in a mood. But her armor is on in force in this ep. We won't really get INSIDE Fox until "The Gathering" two-parter.
Finally, Goliath acknowledges his crime: "I was wrong." Cary had this great line for Renard: "I'm glad you're gargoyle enough to admit it."
Robert Culp and Peter Scolari were an interesting pair as Renard and Vogel. Culp was tough in the booth. Very precise. Very clear ideas about how he wanted to play the character. Tougher on his performance than Jamie and I were. And the results show.
Peter was a dream to work with. We spent an hour talking after the recording (about Busom Buddies, mostly). He's an incredibly nice guy. And he picked up the character right away. Despite the fact that we didn't have Jeff Bennett there to do a little Owen for him. He just got it.
Until the end, Vogel really plays Renard in this. He knows how much Renard hates whining blame-shifters, so he's constantly saying things like "You can place the blame on me if you like." in order to defuse any of Renard's suspicions.
But in a more subtle way, Renard is unwittingly playing upon Vogel as well. He doesn't intrude on Vogel's phone calls. He treats him with respect and gives him credit ("You and I built this ship together"). Insists that Vogel save the people in the tower, even if it means Renard's own life. We can see that Vogel was willing to take Fox's money for a bit of corporate espionage. But Vogel is not a killer. (It's important to see that he views Goliath as a creature.) This partially explains his turnaround at the end. (Which some people complained about.) All along he's been trying to get Renard to GET OFF THE SHIP. But Renard forces his hand. And when push comes to shove, Vogel likes Renard too much to see him die. "Mr. Vogel, I knew you wouldn't let me down." "You have that effect on people." And then Goliath basically bluffs him at the end there into confessing, screwing up their relationship.
But Goliath fixes it again. His last discussion with Renard sets up the reconciliation between them that must have taken place before "Golem".
At any rate, it's also nice to see Goliath make a NEW friend. This was important, because that has always been Goliath's goals. To make friends with humans on his own terms. Every once in a while, we had to show it working. Couldn't just be ONLY Elisa forever.
Ben weighed in at this point and said, "Daddy, I love Xanatos. And I love Fox." Of course, Ben and Erin dressed up as David and Fox at the last Gathering. In fact they dressed up in the martial arts outfits from this episode. Thus the affinity. I once played Theseus in the play THE WARRIOR'S HUSBAND. And Edmund in KING LEAR. It gave me an on-going affinity for both characters and awakened my interest in "The Bastard" archetype.
Now the tag. I'm usually pretty proud of our tags. They often advance the overall story as much as the entire episode. But this is one of my favorites. "Hello, Janine." "Hello, daddy." Was anyone ready for that? And her attitude: "Almost got you that time, didn't I?" The whole sense that Fox is in all this just for kicks. She's not as acquisitive as her husband. He'd always take the path of LEAST resistance to a goal. If Renard would give Janine the company, X would suggest she ask for it. But she doesn't care about the company. ONLY the game. X likes the game. But he's about RESULTS. All established in one little scene.
And of course that slick little pregnancy revelation. I think that was one of the most revolutionary and flat-out subversive things we did on the whole show. Was anyone ready for that? We had hinted at it with the "genetically compatible" line in "Eye of the Beholder" and obvioulsy with "It's your doctor... with test results." But I think it was quite the shocker.
And Fox is so tough. Pregnant and back on the hang-glider. I love it.
Okay, I'm done. You're turn. Ramble away...
I guess Elisa won't be taking Goliath to '"catch a Giants game" after all since they lost to the Ravens. Ha, Ha. So, Greg, which team were you gunning to win, or don't you care?
I personally don't care much for football, I just watch it for the commercials... :)
I'm afraid I didn't really care. I went to school with John Elway, so I'd been a Broncos fan for years, until he retired. But Giants/Ravens? I have no connection to either team.
when i asked if Claw will ever talk again you said, "I hope not". why do you hope that Claw will never talk again? his not being to talk is psychological not physiological, right? as in its something wrong in his head, not wrong with his physical body. what spin-offs would Claw make appearences in? would he be a main character in any of them?
This isn't exactly altruistic of me, but I believe Claw is a more interesting (and in some ways more expressive and unique) character as a mute. Yes, it's psychological. And I do believe he's adjusted since the initial trauma, but part of that adjustment involves adjusting simultaneously to not speaking. I don't see him speaking again, unless it's right before his death. (And, no I don't yet know how or when he dies.)
As for spin-offs -- assuming they ever get made -- look for him to appear in Bad Guys (because of his relationship to Fang). Perhaps in New Olympians and Pendragon. But mostly in the main Gargoyles series. I see him sticking pretty close to Talon and Maggie and the Labyrinth.
Is there any particular reason Desdemona divided herself into three versions of herself (one with black hair, blond, and white) in "High Noon"... I just thought there might be relation between this and the fact the weird sisters were in the episode manipulatining MacBeth and Demona.
Des didn't do it. She opened herself up to possession and the Weird Sisters did it.
I am still a bit confused on how is it that Demona and MacBeth have to die, if they do? I know that no one else but either one of them can kill them both, but what I'm confused about is...
1. Do they both (AND) have to kill each other at the exact same time?
2. Or does at least MacBeth OR Demona have to kill the other in order for them both to die? (Keeping in mind, OR in math means one, the other, or both.)
I wanted you to be impressed with my cool Mr. Spock logic I was pondering today because I was bored and needed to use my discrete mathematics knowledge formally. So, I'd thought I'd apply math to Gargoyles somehow. Hope you understand.
Let "m" stand for MacBeth, and "d" for Demona. TRUE being if one is killed. FALSE if not. Here's my truth table for possibility #1.
m | d | m and d
T | T | T
T | F | F
F | T | F
F | F | F
Therefore, if they both kill each other, that would be the only TRUE outcome, whereas all others are False because if one lives, then they both do, correct?
And here's my logic for possibility #2.
m | d | m or d
T | T | T
T | F | T
F | T | T
F | F | F
Therefore, only one is FALSE because according to #2's theory, either Macbeth or Demona kills the other, then they both die, or if they both kill each other.
I hope my logic is not flawed somewhere...Mr. Spock would not be impressed.
See Gargoyles does help out with math!
Math is good.
But really you don't need it here. If you listen to the Weird Sisters it's pretty clear.
One has to kill the other (OR both kill each other at the same time). They don't both have to do it. Just the terms of the bond.
1) Why didn't Demona choose to have any children other than with Goliath? (You mentioned in an earlier reply that Demona's only child is Angela) From 994 AD to about 157 AD she had her own clan of gargoyles (containing many males), she had the opportunity... and since her race was going extinct it makes logical sense that she would have tried to copulate as much as possible. Was she sterile? Did she find the males unworthy?
2) After MacBeth and Demona were initially killed by Canmore (spelling?) did Demona ever meet any other Gargoyle clans? Were these clans the ancestors of those Goliath met on the World Tour?
3) In the Mirror, Hudson said the fae were as real as the Gargoyles and that the clan knew they were called "the Children of Oberon", and they acted as if it was common knowledge. Wouldn't this mean that Demona believes that Oberon exists but has not obtained definitive proof? Or have the centuries jaded her?
1. 1057 bot 157. And I think the main answer is GUILT. (Certainly not infertility.) Goliath wasn't dead, though he might as well have been. She mated with him for life. She didn't (deep down) believe that she deserved another mate or that she could stand to betray Goliath in yet one MORE way. So she never opened herself up to any of the males.
2. I'm not saying.
3. She believes.
Some disturbing news came to my attention: That the estimated Gathering population is only 31% of its 500 person goal. Those numbers are bad for LA. Perhaps when they bring it back to VA Beach on the "East Coast" again, more people will attend. Maybe me.
Jim, the numbers could definitely be better. Though you should keep in mind, that L.A.'s pre-paid membership sales have ALREADY topped attendance (both pre-paid and walk-ins) from each of the previous four gatherings. And we're still four+ months out from the L.A. convention.
Of course, our goal is to top attendance of all four previous gatherings COMBINED. That'll be tough. But with walk-ins, I bet we're darn close.
Now obviously, I'd like to see Virginia Beach do just as well or even better. But there's no doubt in my mind that L.A. is going to be the biggest and best Gathering so far. (Really, you don't want to miss it.)
Kenner had competed for the Gargoyles toy license and won. They were enthusiastic partners. This was pretty early on in the process, but their initial main objection was that we still had the gargoyles able to fly under their own power at this stage. They didn't like that, because it removed the need for kids and parents to buy flying vehicle accessories. We eventually acquiesced (over my initial objections) because my boss Gary Krisel felt that it could be to our advantage to only allow the gargs to glide on "currents of wind" instead of fly. It hampered them some. I was dubious, but this turned out to be all for the best. So thank Kenner -- for that at least.
Me, I still have the Nerf guns.
JUN 25 1993
GREG WEISMAN'S OFFICE
A Tonka Division
June 23, 1993
Mr. Gregory David Weisman
Wait Disney Television
5200 Lankershim Boulevard
North Hollywood, CA 91601
We're looking forward to seeing you and Gary next week and getting further into the Gargoyles concept (are they still flying?).
I'm bringing Rm Hayes again (VP of Product Concepts) as well as Howard Bollinger, really, (Sr. VP of Product Concepts), Bruce Stein (Kenner's President), and possibly Ginger Kent (Sr. VP of Marketing). We've spent Kenner development time on the project and will have something to show you during our discussions on June 30.
I'm sending you some of our current action figures from Aliens, Batman and Jurassic Park to refresh everyone's awareness of how we market our action figure toys. The Nerf weapons in the package are for your internal entertainment and are not to be used on us if you don't like what we've done on Gargoyles. Enjoy!
See you next Wednesday at 5:00 p.m.
James R . Black
Vice President, Licensing
CC: R. Hayes
Eric Luke turned in an outline on our multi-part pilot on 6-3-93. I'm afraid I don't have that document anymore. But my response (from a week later) is still in my computer files. And it does give a sense of what he was up to. But more, it gives a sense of where I wanted to take the story.
One might argue that my greatest strength as a writer is in fact... that I'm a good editor. I do think I have a knack for taking solid work by other professionals, and finding the core story inside that work. Bringing that story out and helping it to shine. I think I have a good mind for both the big picture and the little details. (At any rate, that's largely been the basis of my career.)
So that's what I was attempting to do here. And I think you can begin to see the details of the story beginning to see the light in my notes here.
To: Eric Luke Date: 6-10-93
From: Greg Weisman Ext: 818)754-7436
Subject: Notes on 6/3 GARGOYLE Outline
Hi, Eric. Big improvement. I've collated a bunch of specific page notes, and I apologize in advance for their length. But we are getting so close, we wanted to make sure everything's nailed dead-to-rights. As before, we're largely concerned that everything tracks logically and that we've fully explored the relationships between our leads. So here goes.
Don't overdue the notion that no one's ever seen a gargoyle (in the tenth century). They are rare. But not that rare. Basically, Cole, the lead Marauder assumes that like most castles, this one has "bluff" gargoyles made of actual stone. He's taking a calculated risk. A risk he may feel absolutely confident in taking, but a risk nonetheless.
Although you DON'T have to use them in the treatment, when we get to script, we'll probably want to bring back the boy, Robbie, and his mom, so that we can play the anti-gargoyle prejudice beats. These will parallel w/Goliath's anti-human prejudice in the modern day sequences, and help give an overall theme to the piece.
We might want to show the Captain helping out in this battle, in some (perhaps minor) way, so that we see that he and Goliath are comrades-in-arms. [We've abbreviated the events of the 10th century sequence by cutting a day from the original beat outline. That's o.k., but it makes it tougher to show Demona and the Captain's complex motivations and loyalties. We have to compensate in other ways.]
The "after you, alphonse" dialogue seems a little on the silly side. It might play in script.
Right now, Gary is leaning toward a male Broadway.
At the bottom of page, it's unnecessary for Goliath to suspect treachery at this point. He's merely horrified at what he finds. The Captain's treason comes as a greater surprise when Goliath confronts him a bit later.
Remember, Captain (and Demona) had hoped to remove the gargoyles to safety. Goliath (unwittingly) had not cooperated. That's what left the gargoyles vulnerable to Cole. (From Demona's point of view, the plan backfired in a big way.)
Just a cautionary, but we don't want to flag early on that Xavier is a villain. At first we should consider him a rich eccentric. Cheerful, even.
Remember, when the Gargoyles awaken, they burst free of their stone shells, shattering them.
Xavier should not be so matter-of-fact about the Gargoyle's appearance. Remember, he's pretending this is the first time he's ever seen this reawakening. He should be appropriately impressed.
One of the elements that we want to be able to play with the Pack is the notion that they are the heroes of their own American Gladiatoresque t.v. show. For example, that's how Elisa would know them, as pseudo-athletes, not villains. If we don't have room to play that here in the pilot, than perhaps the Pack isn't the best villain team to use. Another notion we had was a group of armored villains w/names revolving around a demolition motif (the natural enemies of the sometimes-stone gargoyles): i.e. Piledriver, Bulldozer, etc.
If you do use the Pack, the twins are Jackal (male, cunning and vicious) and Hyena (female and practically psychotic).
The robot is CY.O.T.I. (CYber-Operational Technical Intelligence), and his bodies are interchangeable, not his head.
Elisa is a plain clothes detective, and therefore doesn't drive a black and white. Though she could have one of those removable cherry-tops on her car.
Xavier could help the gargoyles fight, to show (a) how tough and formidable he is for a "normal" human and (b) how trustworthy he is...paralleling the Captain's actions from the 10th century.
Perhaps the Pack (or whoever) pretends to get away w/stealing something. (Xavier will later claim it was the 3 disks.) After all, this whole attack was staged.
The whole notion of the Gargoyles not appearing on videotape because they're magical creatures doesn't work for us and doesn't seem necessary. It adds a fairly sophisticated new rule (usually associated w/vampires) and confuses the issue as to whether the gargoyles are their own race of creatures, as opposed to magically animated stone. They exist. They're real. We think they show up on tape.
In this particular scene, we think we can leave out the camcorder and the scene at the police station. Elisa's fairly independent. Also, she doesn't necessarily need to see what's happening from the ground. Better if she doesn't know she's looking for "creatures" 'til she finds them. She could just be investigating the falling debris, though that sounds like something a building inspector would do. It would be nice if there was something that would attract a police detective's attention. (Laser-fire?) Some sign of a crime.
Does she initially question or try to question Xavier? Does she suspect him?
The gargoyles should probably be the first bizarre entities that Elisa (and the city) encounters. If she's been dealing w/super-villains the last few weeks, than Goliath won't seem that strange. Also, her initial fear of him should not be based specifically on the notion that he is one of a group of villains, but on a visceral reaction to his appearance and threatening size. Prejudice. And the fact that there are a lot of Gargoyles doesn't hurt either.
The idea that "the whole city is her responsibility and she has a right to know what's going on" anywhere in it, sounds a bit egocentric or even vaguely fascist to me. This may not be the right moment for bravado. Again, she can be legitimately scared at this point. No shame in it. She doesn't have to ask about turf wars, or even be aware of what took place. In essence, we can reduce the talkiness of this scene by having her react the way any of us would.
Obviously, when Goliath saves her life, it'll have a profound effect, probably on both of them. It's a powerful event. It probably signals a truce, an end to hostility. And their mutual insight might hint at what's to come, but they're a long way from friends yet...or even trusted allies.
Here's where they can start to talk a bit. Get the basics on each other. Since we want the Gargoyles to lead weirdness into the modern world, she doesn't recruit him to fight super-villains, rather she offers to show him the best and worst of his new home. Maybe, she's hoping he'll see for himself it's worth fighting for, or maybe she hasn't thought it out that far. Maybe she plays on his need to get acclimated to his new surroundings. He needs a tour guide in this brave new world, she offers to be that guide. From his point of view, he's had bad luck leaving the castle, which would tend to make him reluctant to take her up on her offer. His agreeing is probably a sign of things to come coupled with the admission that he doesn't know what he's up against in the 20th century. He needs to learn, and learning does appeal to him.
Goliath probably can't be goaded into joining her. He knows enough about "puny" humans and their betrayals to WISELY be afraid of what they are capable of. She needs to appeal to his better nature--as above, his curiosity and desire to learn, and perhaps a hidden desire to find (or be reminded of) the good in humans that he once recognized.
Again, we don't need to make the Gargoyles invisible to electronics for them to steal the disks. Make the three sites where the "stolen" disks are being held, three entirely separate locations, each uniquely inaccessible to a normal human. Also, Xavier can claim that these disks were stolen from him during the previous night's attack by the Pack (or whoever). He doesn't want to go to the police, because they'd investigate the site of the theft and the signs of battle that might lead to the Gargoyle's being revealed. Xavier's not making "a proposition", he's "asking" for Goliath's help. Coupled w/Elisa's request, Goliath may be on the verge of softening toward humans again. As you wrote, he'll think about it.
After Goliath leaves, perhaps Xavier talk to a shadowy figure (Demona) about how everything is going according to plan. He's confident that Goliath will come around.
I apologize, but I think I led you astray when we discussed how "super-heroey" this universe is. Though we are eventually going to have multiple paranormal characters, we don't want to make their introduction casual, nor their existence commonplace. I like the idea that Xavier is stealing technology in order to power up his operatives or build Scarab Corp robots or both, but I don't think he'd be giving out this or any technology so that "the Crippler", et al, could wander the streets doing as they please. Too wasteful for Xavier.
Is Xavier aware of Goliath's deal w/Elisa? If so, would he want to use it to his advantage, perhaps staging another conflict with the same villain team that attacked the castle? Something to convince Goliath that he must help Xavier recover the disks? [The trick to these villains obviously, is to make them powerful enough to be threatening to Goliath and Company, but missing some necessary ability like flight or stealth, that would have enabled them to liberate the disks for Xavier (something other than the invisible-to-video rule). Their abilities can be enhanced for the climax when Xavier makes use of the stolen info on the three disks.]
Boots on Brooklyn are a bit awkward design-wise. Let's trade Doc Marten's for Ray-Bans or Aviator sunglasses.
It's an interesting question whether or not the teen gargoyles can read, but let's not address it here.
Let's have Bronx chewing up the car interior, instead of stinking it up. He's an omnivore.
Goliath's attitude on the first night that humanity is not worth saving doesn't seem to follow. He's always known, even before the Captain's betrayal, that there were bad humans. He used to think there were also good humans worth saving. Since the Captain, he's lost faith in that. Now that he's met Xavier and Elisa, he's probably regaining his faith, despite himself. The way to bring him back to his prejudices is with an ungrateful victim that he has saved. Some modern day equivalent to the queen or wizard. Humans will never stop fearing, blaming or hating the gargoyles. They don't deserve his assistance. Elisa, as a cop, can actually relate to this. But by example, she's trying to show him not to give up on humanity and it's potential.
To cement Goliath's gratitude, it's probably better if Xavier claims to have sought Demona out. Found her for Goliath. This was always part of Xavier and Demona's plan. Although Goliath will be overwhelmed by her reappearance, all the Gargoyles should be very glad to see her. And she, sincerely glad to see them. (She still hopes to turn them to the dark side.)
Again, we don't need non-detectability. Let's put the three disks in three very separate locations in the city. Let's send Goliath and Demona after one. The trio after another, and stick Hudson (much to his annoyance) w/Bronx to go after the third.
The disks must be largely inaccessible. (One in a tower; one in an underground vault, etc.) And they should each be protected by security systems and well-armed human guards. But only a guy like Xavier would create Spiderbots and Wardroids, so let's keep things clean by leaving them out. However, a good complication would be for the disk's real owners to call the police. Elisa, who's been waiting for Goliath to show, takes the call. She confronts Goliath and Demona. It's a horrible moment for everyone. He flies away w/the disk. But after turning it over to Xavier, he insists on going back to talk to Elisa. Demona would be against it. She'd relate Elisa to the Captain. Xavier might start making contingency plans...if Goliath is so honorable that he has to clear his conscience with the authorities, then it may not be so easy to turn him and keep him turned.
The trick is probably not to let Goliath come off as a big dope. It's o.k. that he's been fooled, as long as it's been a convincing con. He's a smart guy.
We need to contrast Elisa's responses w/Demona's knee-jerk ones. Elisa could be deeply disappointed. Goliath could try to explain why he did what he did. To Elisa it all sounds fishy, and at any rate, he shouldn't have taken the law into his own hands. That's where he might scoff at human law...and humans, in general. Don't let him get pouty. He's got legitimate gripes. But this disappoints Elisa further. She thought they had connected. Plus, she's been put in an awkward situation. He's a criminal now. Does she arrest him? He takes that decision out of her hands by leaving.
We're not clear on the meaning of Elisa's: "You're blaming humans because you can't face the blame yourself!" What blame?
If we use the Trio in the action-packed disk-raid, then we can cut the Artless Dodger. Again, we don't want to make "paranormals" too commonplace.
It's tough to believe that the Pack (or their replacements) would really think the gargoyles had stolen their money. And it's impossible to believe that Fox would betray her boss by giving away his well-mapped out plans. Xavier's control should be fairly complete. Basically, the multiple changes that these notes have suggested are going to require some major restructuring of the last few pages.
Xavier's "contingency plans" from above could help set the final act in motion. Maybe, he decides to test the gargoyles' loyalty to him once and for all. This is important, because Xavier would not just toss aside valuable "assets" like the Gargoyles, just because they had already accomplished the specific mission he acquired them for or because their talents were now largely redundant. If he thought there was a chance to keep them, he'd go for it. Maybe the loyalty test involves Elisa. That way, we can get that moment when Goliath refuses to betray Elisa. This cements Goliath and Elisa's relationship. Further enrages Demona, etc.
When Goliath fails the loyalty test, Xavier can then decide to destroy Goliath (and probably the other gargoyles as well). He can utilize the disk technology that the gargoyles stole which he has already used to enhance the Pack (or whoever) or build killer robots (or whatever). This personalizes the final battle. They're not saving the city. But themselves.
It's unlikely that Xavier would give away his plans just to gloat. He's too smart for that.
We want to reveal Demona's true colors to Goliath and our audience at the same time. The last great shocking secret revealed. Perhaps Goliath discovers the truth after failing the loyalty test. She tries to convince him one last time to change sides. If in the course of the loyalty test, he was physically defeated, this'll be like kicking him when he's down. And then it's Elisa who saves him and helps rally his spirits for the coming final confrontation.
How did Demona stay young for a thousand years?
Given the above, it's hard to see how the trio could refuse to help Goliath.
Obviously, we can now lose the army of paranormals. I'll miss Mister Billious the most.
We can probably reduce the talky-nature of the final battle scene by giving Elisa and Goliath a moment of calm before the battle begins. Remember, the key relationship is theirs. She may fear that the betrayals of Xavier and Demona will drive Goliath further into his shell. But she has unwittingly kept her promise. She has shown Goliath that humanity is worth saving, because she has shown Goliath herself. And it's enough, because she's a very special individual who considers herself fairly typical of humanity.
Demona can be armed with "modern" bazooka-laser Kirbyesque weapons to even out the odds in her and Goliath's one-on-one final battle.
Xavier's "death" may need to be rethunk. Perhaps Demona, who's been our secret betrayer from the beginning, should "die". (Maybe her weapon explodes?) Xavier, the human villain can be arrested by Elisa. He's not worried though, he'll have the best trial money can buy...or as Elisa counters: "The best cell."
Whew. That's it. Let me know if you have any questions.
cc: Gary Krisel, Bruce Cranston, Paul Lacy
In anticipation of watching "Outfoxed" anyday now, I'm going to go ahead and post the memo I wrote to Cary Bates, after he turned in his outline for that episode, originally titled, "After the Fox".
Notes on "After the Fox" Outline...
Well, one of the advantages of having you as one of my story editors is that I can be brutally honest. We got some problems here. The main one being that the story doesn't get going in earnest until the last scene of Act Two. We're horribly padded here. Normally, I would give this back to you for a second draft outline, but -- my fault -- I didn't read it in time. So I'll beat it out here.
FOX vs. RENARD
First off, let's make Renard the last name. I know I said it was o.k. to make Renard the first name, but the more I thought about it, the more I didn't want Fox's only connection to the Renard/Fox name to be that it was her father's first name. I don't think she could admit to herself that she was borrowing anything from him. So let's make her given name Janine Renard. He still calls her Janine. She rejects that and has her name legally changed to her nom de guerre: Fox. (Like Cher or Madonna, it's just the one word. Remember, she was a performer.) The "Fox" is the part of herself that she believes in. The irony, of course, is that the name did come from her father.
I don't think Fox consciously hates her father. I don't think she consciously admits to having feelings that could cloud her judgment. There's no vengeance kick here. No line of dialogue where she says she wants to see him suffer or that she only saved his life so she can continue to torture him. That all may be subconsciously true, but if so, she doesn't realize it. Remember, she's Xanatos' perfect mate. Neither her nor her husband get that emotional. They enjoy the game for its own sake. Playing it against her father may give it a special tang, but from her point of view, there's only one reason to do this: Cyberbiotics. She wants it, so she decides to take it. If it wasn't worth having, she wouldn't have bothered.
The investor scenario doesn't work. Just because the investors aren't killed, doesn't mean these five terrorized guys are now gonna invest. The damage is done. The stock price will still fall and Cyberbiotics will still belong to Fox by close of business tomorrow.
The solution, I believe, is to change the location. Renard has just rebuilt the CYBERBIOTICS AIR FORTRESS. He's determined to prove that it's safe and effective. It's a corporate icon, like the Good Year Blimp -- and the public does think it's really cool -- but it's still not the smartest investment. It's hybris. Worse... it's Euro-Disney. Renard's had to invest way too much to rebuild it. If it's destroyed so soon after it's reconstruction, Cyberbiotics will be bankrupt and easy prey for Fox. This'll tie in nicely with Goliath's growing sense that he owes Renard a debt. Goliath helped destroy the first Air Fortress. Now, he must save the second one. And if you save the ship, you save the company from Fox.
INTEGRITY: GARGOYLE vs. HUMAN
For once, this should not be an issue. Renard accuses Goliath of not having as much integrity as humans do. But Renard doesn't believe humans have very much integrity -- that's why he's automated his operations -- so we're arguing the wrong premise. Integrity is not the province of either race. Deep down, Goliath may have a vague prejudice that gargoyles are generally more honest than humans, but in his head he knows that his race does not have a monopoly on integrity. Thanks to the events of our pilot, Renard may have a general mistrust of gargoyles, but that's not the point he should be making. Renard firmly believes that integrity is an absolute. You have it. Or you don't. Cut and Dry. Black and White. He's got it. Most humans don't, including Xanatos and his daughter. Machines can be programmed with absolutes. People can't. So he's populating his world with machines. His assumption is that Goliath is no better than Xanatos and that all of the creature's protestations about being duped are nothing more than whining excuses. Will Goliath take responsibility for his actions or won't he? Let's not distract this important theme, with issues of race.
Though I loved the line: "You're gargoyle enough to admit it."
Who is this guy exactly? Security man? Computer programmer? Born-again? Was he hired on a project basis to complete the automation? Is he helping Fox because he knew Renard was going to fire him? Has Vogel automated all of Renard's operations or just the security? If it's just the security, than what are they securing? Why does he repent? Basically, the character is coming across as very vague and contradictory. We have to clean this up.
Let's also make sure we fit Vogel into our theme. He is corrupted by Fox. Ultimately, Renard will use Vogel as another example of why humans cannot be trusted. But Goliath will point out that the cybots were just as corruptible, while incapable of experiencing a change of heart, as Goliath has had.
"After the Fox"... I don't get it. Am I missing something?
1. Open quietly with FOX at the EYRIE BUILDING. She turns on the evening news. TRAVIS MARSHALL is on the air, reporting from JFK or LaGuardia or wherever. It is the Maiden Voyage of FORTRESS-2, the CYBERBIOTICS airship. Marshall had hoped to get an interview with the reclusive head of Cyberbiotics, HALCYON RENARD, but has to settle for Renard's right-hand man VOGEL. Fox watches all this with some interest.
2. Out at the airfield, Marshall, a tough journalist, questions the wisdom and expense of Fortress-2, particularly since FORTRESS-ONE crashed into the river last year. Vogel counters that the cause of that crash was an act of corporate espionage that was only successful thanks to human error on the part of Fortress-One's crew. Fortress-2 is fully automated, run by patented CYBOTS. Human error is not possible. No humans aboard at all? After this test flight, human scientists will occupy it's laboratories to research new wonders, but there is no human crew, except for Vogel and Mr. Renard, himself. Marshall asks if it's true that Renard has invested all of his personal fortune into Fortress-2, and that if it doesn't perform both he and Cyberbiotics will be ruined. Vogel has no comment on that, and heads inside the ship.
3. We follow Vogel, as he heads for the command center. Everything is automated, and there are little Cybots everywhere. All with very specific functions. No waste. At the command center, Vogel contacts Renard in his private office, elsewhere on board. Cut briefly to a shadowed Renard hovering in his ultra-chair, watching Vogel on a vid-screen. Renard gives permission to launch.
4. Fortress-2 launches. Huge turbines and compressors roar. And GOLIATH and ELISA watch from a nearby roof or hilltop. Goliath claims to be here because he is concerned that XANATOS might attempt to attack this ship, just as he tricked Goliath into attacking the first one. But Elisa probably knows that the air fortress is a symbol of Goliath's own guilt -- a guilt that Goliath has yet to come to terms with. Goliath decides to follow the airship, just to be safe.
5. In the air above Manhattan, a cybot alerts Vogel to their pursuer [Goliath]. Vogel informs Renard. Renard says Vogel knows what to do. (It doesn't hurt if we briefly misdirect the audience into thinking that Renard is a villain.)
6. Goliath glides a short distance behind the airship. Suddenly, flying cybots swarm out of a Fortress-2 hold. There're not very big, and they have very simple attack programming. They fire medium strength stun bolts and they miss more often than they hit. Goliath can swat them away easily. Clearly, these cybots don't seem to be on a par with Xanatos' STEEL CLAN. But if results are what counts, they turn out to be superior. There are just too many of the little things. No matter how many Goliath trashes, there are more coming at him. They hover, which Goliath can't do. And eventually, the stun beams add up. Finally, he gets hit with a barrage of them and passes out. Two larger cybots are waiting to catch him and bring him into the airship. (Let's consistently depict the cybots as mono-functional. Each model capable of doing only one thing.)
7. Inside the airship, Goliath regains consciousness in the brig. The bars on the cell might be bendable for Goliath, but he is forced back by Cybot guards with built-in cattle prods. Vogel is there, and a large metal pneumatic door slides open to finally reveal Halcyon Renard. He floats in on his hover chair. He has silver hair and a very sharp mind -- but he is definitely not "robust and vital".
Renard hovers around Goliath, sizing him up. "So this is what the boys at Gen-U-Tech have been up to. Xanatos must be very proud." Goliath responds that he is neither Gen-U-Tech's creation nor Xanatos'. Renard laughs. Goliath demands to know why he is being held prisoner. "Because if you're my prisoner, than I know you can't destroy Fortress-2 for your master." Goliath: "I have no master." "No? Then why did you do this?" Renard flicks a remote button on his chair, and the walls slide back to reveal a large screen. Another button, and video clips from "Awakening, Parts IV and V" show Goliath's participation in the destruction of Fortress-One. Chastened, Goliath tries to explain that he had been duped by Xanatos: "It wasn't my fault." But Renard doesn't let up: "It's not my fault. It's not my fault. You sound like all my human employees. My former human employees. Crush them all together and you couldn't squeeze an ounce of personal integrity from the lot of them. Don't make excuses, creature! Take responsibility for your actions! Stop whining!"
"I DO NOT WHINE," says Goliath, as he rips the bars off his cell and uses them to smash his cybot guards. But Renard doesn't even flinch. "You don't whine, but you also don't hesitate to destroy more of my personal property." He presses another button, and two stun cannons on his chair blast at Goliath until he is knocked out again.
Vogel apologizes. "All my fault, sir. I'll make sure he can't get out of the next cell." We see that Renard respects Vogel for taking the blame. A cybot informs Vogel that he has an incoming personal call. Renard exits, not wanting to impose on Vogel's privacy.
As Cybots drag the unconscious Goliath away, Vogel turns to a vid-screen and activates it. Reveal Fox on the other end. Is it safe to talk? Mr. Renard always respects my privacy. Is Vogel ready to sabotage Fortress-2? He is if the money's been deposited in his Swiss Bank Account. All taken care of. Vogel: "Then we're ready. And the good news is..." He looks at Goliath. "We've got a perfect candidate to take the blame."
8. A short time later, Goliath awakens shackled to a wall in a new cell, with MUCH thicker bars, and even more cybot guards. Renard is there in his hover chair, brooding. If only Goliath could make him understand that Xanatos is to blame. But Renard: "Oh, I have no doubt of that. You aren't the first poor soul Xanatos has corrupted. Owen Burnett. Anton Sevarius. They both were Cyberbiotics employees... and they're the least of what that viper has stolen from me. I've no doubt he was behind the attack and no reason to doubt that he tricked you into participating." But if that's so, than why does Renard hold Goliath responsible? "Someone has to. And you obviously don't." It doesn't matter to Renard whose idea it was. It doesn't matter whether Goliath believed he was doing the right thing. Now he knows the truth. What's he going to do about it? Goliath grimly rattles his chains, then says, "I think a better question might be, what are you going to do about it."
9. Xanatos and Fox are working on their Kung Fu at the Eyrie Building. Make a point of showing that they are evenly matched. While they fight, they talk casually. Xanatos: "Weren't you mounting a hostile take-over of Cyberbiotics today? Your not having second thoughts about taking it from old man Renard?" Before she can answer, OWEN enters to alert Fox of a phone call from her physician. When Xanatos looks concern, she misinterprets and tells him not to worry: Cyberbiotics will be hers before morning. And as she says hello into the phone, we cut...
10. In the command center, Vogel instructs a random cybot to shut down for repairs. When it does, he opens it up and installs a chip into it's programming matrix. Then he reactivates the cybot, but when it turns on, an arc of electricity flashes around it, briefly. Vogel taps it on the head. Off you go.
11. Goliath and Renard are still talking practical philosophy. Renard has been brooding over the question of what to do with Goliath. He's trying to decide what the honorable thing would be. He'll probably just turn him over to the authorities. Goliath is aghast. "Look at me, human. Is that an equitable punishment? Was my crime against you heinous enough to justify turning me into a laboratory specimen?" Renard smiles. "Well, we're making progress. You've finally acknowledged that you committed a crime."
12. Elsewhere on the ship, the first cybot that Vogel infected passes another cybot. The same arc of electricity shoots out of the second 'bot. Then both 'bots move off and infect two more...and so on... and so on... and so on...
On Vogel's read-out screen, the percentage of cybots infected keeps rising. 13%... 27%... 32%...
13. Goliath eyes Renard. Almost despite himself, Goliath is beginning to regard the man with a grudging respect. "All right. I've admitted I was wrong. No more excuses. Now what?" But Renard doesn't have any easy answers for him. "Integrity is not easy. It is a daily struggle. A costly struggle. If you only knew what it cost me. My Anastasia. My Janine." Goliath lowers his head, "...my angel..." Renard looks at him closely. "So you do know." Goliath speaks slowly: "I know I owe you a great debt for what I did a year ago. And a greater debt for the education I received tonight. If the text was not new to me, it was at least... worth revisiting."
Now during this entire conversation, a cybot enters and approaches a guard cybot by the door. The guard cybot is infected, and approaches the other cybot by the door and infects it. Neither Goliath nor Renard notice until the cybots flanking Goliath's cell are infected and the arcing electricity catches the attention of both.
14. On Vogel's screen the percentage goes up from 99% to 100%, and "Right on cue" he gets a vid-call from Renard. He affects panic. Somehow that creature in the brig has infected every cybot on board with a computer virus. Renard says, "Nonsense. I've been sitting here talking with him the whole time." Vogel doesn't know how Goliath did it. But the Cybots are not responding to commands. They've set Fortress-2 on a collision course with the CYBERBIOTICS TOWER. They must abandon ship and activate the emergency self-destruct mechanism or both installations will be destroyed, and Cyberbiotics will be history. Renard is beside himself: If Fortress-2 is destroyed than Cyberbiotics is ruined anyway. Vogel shakes his head, flips a switch and a 10 minute time counter appears on the vid-screen. "I'm sorry, sir. You can place the blame on me if you must, but now we have no choice. At our present rate of speed we will hit the tower in ten minutes. You have nine minutes to meet me at the escape pod. After that I will jettison, and use my access code to destroy Fortress-2."
15. Goliath offers to help Renard try to save the ship. Renard is so furious, he's half ready to believe that Goliath was responsible. But Goliath knows that Renard doesn't really believe that. Goliath helped destroy Fortress-One. "Let me help to save Fortress-2." Renard agrees and presses a button on his chair which releases Goliath. The Cybot guards interpret this as an escape attempt. Renard cannot override them. But between Goliath and Renard's hover-chair, they manage to destroy the cybot guards. They leave the brig. The seconds tick away.
16. Vogel monitors them from the comfortable escape pod. He can't believe the old fool is going to try to save the ship. Why doesn't he just admit defeat and head for the escape pod? Vogel's made sure that route is clear of cybots. He'll just have to discourage anymore heroics. He orders all the cybots to kill the creature and drive Renard toward the pod. (Note: he does NOT want to kill Renard.)
17. Now every cybot on the ship is against Goliath and Renard. The little flying ones that knocked Goliath out in the first place. The big ones that carried him inside. More cattle-prod guard 'bots. Zippy little messenger 'bots. Maintenance 'bots. All of them. The good news is that in the airship's small corridors, there are only so many that can go at our heroes at once. But the situation is intolerable. They can't destroy the 'bots one at a time. They need to cut off power to all the cybots at once. And it's possible. There's a power station at the center of the ship that transmits power to all the cybots. But if they destroy that then they destroy the cybots that pilot the ship. There won't be time to get to the power station, shut it off and then go to the bridge. They have to split up. And time is ticking away. And the Tower gets closer and closer.
18. Intercut between Goliath fighting his way to the power station; Renard fighting his way to the bridge, and Vogel getting very nervous in the escape pod. [Turns out that even Vogel didn't know how much the old guy had grown on him. Destroying his empire is one thing. But Vogel is no killer. He doesn't want Renard's death on his conscience. And/or he had explicit instructions from Fox that Renard not be killed.] And time is ticking away. And the Tower gets closer and closer.
19. Goliath gets to the power station and destroys it. All the 'bots shut down. But time is ticking away. And the Tower gets closer and closer.
20. With the cybots down, Renard is able to zoom the rest of the way to the bridge quickly. He puts Fortress-2 on manual override, but time has passed the nine minute mark. The tower looms right in front of him and navigation and the helm are located on two different consoles. At the last second, Vogel appears and between the two of them, they are able to turn the ship away from the tower and save it.
21. Aftermath between Renard and Goliath. At first, Renard is bitter. Vogel has confessed his betrayal. Further proof that the human species is devoid of integrity. But Goliath disagrees. Vogel's example hardly proves the wisdom of putting one's trust in single-minded automatons. Automatons are tools. They know nothing of honor or betrayal. They do what they are programmed to do. But a living being knows nothing of programming. A living being must choose. And, ultimately, Vogel chose honor.
Renard lets all that sink in. He's got a lot to think about, but one thing he knows is that Goliath has paid his debt. A ship for a ship. Renard: "We are even." But Goliath: "No... We are friends."
22. Goliath soars off into the night. And he doesn't notice a small hang-glider land on the now defenseless airship behind him. The newcomer abandons the glider and tosses a cloudy ball against the metal hull. The ball shatters and a corrosive substance is released that quickly burns a hole in the hull. The stranger enters the airship, and as she does, we finally get a look at her. It is Fox.
23. Back in Renard's office. He sits in his chair. Quietly. Fox enters behind him, and for a moment we think she's there as an assassin. But he seems to be expecting her. "Hello, Janine," he says. "Hello, Daddy," she replies. "I almost got you that time." "Yes, but why? I built this company for you. I'd have given it to you by now if you hadn't married that villain Xanatos. I'd still probably give it to you if you just stood up and asked me for it honestly." "Oh, Daddy. You and your integrity. Asking for it wouldn't be any fun at all." Renard: "And fun is more important to you than honor. I can't understand that." Fox: "Well, maybe you'll have better luck with the next generation." Renard: "What?" Fox: "That's right, Daddy. You're going to be a grandfather."
Our second Garg writer, Eric Luke turned in his first draft on our pilot outline. This memo was my response.
What you may be able to see here is that the structure of the story was beginning to come together in my mind. (If not Eric's.) The brief prologue. Xavier's [Xantos'] motivations, etc.
To: Eric Luke Date: 5-17-93
From: Greg Weisman Ext: 818)754-7436
Subject: Notes on GARGOYLE Outline
Hi. A few major notes for the rewrite, before we get to the page-by-page stuff. First, we really believe we need to focus most of our attention on the Goliath-Elisa relationship. Really give it an arc and a progression. Elisa is intuitive, but she's only human, and when she first sees a monster, she has to be freaked out by it. Even after they stop perceiving each other as potential threats (and we don't think this can all happen in one scene), there needs to be an uneasiness at first. And then, a growing friendship that is the focus of our tele-film. They need obstacles to overcome, not all of which are plot-driven. Again, this is the most important relationship in our story. We must explore it, not just establish it.
The second major note is more plot-oriented. We believe that Xavier needs a more specific plan and motivation. The desire for human chaos and anarchy might sound good to Demona, but for Xavier it seems counterproductive. What good is all his current wealth if the world economic system crashes? What good his bribed officials if the government collapses? And anyway, how would the escalation of gang wars and crime really activate all this? Xavier is basically an acquisitive guy. He sees something. He wants it. If he can buy it or possess it legally, he probably will, because it's safer and easier. If he can't, he'll find a way to take it. This "it" could be an object of art or a huge cash reserve or power or some kind of weapon...the list is endless. If he can perceive it, he'll want it and go for it. A specific plan, visual and exciting, ala Goldfinger or something, would probably serve us well. Part and parcel of this should be a specific need for Goliath and the rest of the gargoyles. Having Goliath run an errand that any messenger could handle isn't effective enough. Xavier should have some larger purpose in mind for our heroes.
We don't think we can get too far into our story and still have our full flashback. Perhaps we could have just an extremely brief prologue in the present, where Elisa discovers the claw marks or somesuch, before segueing back to the tenth century. Our prologue is too short to reveal anything beyond the fact that something mysterious is going on in the present...something that we'll come back to. We don't even reveal the castle atop the skyscraper. We just spend enough time for Elisa to ask the question: "What could have caused this?" and then we fade back 1000 years. (Of course, this transition is tricky too, but we think it accomplishes our goals more smoothly.) We end our backstory and flash forward to the twentieth century with Xavier buying the castle and ordering it's transportation to Manhattan. Since we've in essence told the story chronologically, we can now have fun with the Gargoyles awakening in the modern world. Reveal the castle in the clouds. See their first reactions. They're first meeting w/Xavier, and how he comes across. From the audience's point of view, Elisa's search (activated in our prologue) is an open (i.e. Columbo-style) mystery. They know that she's gonna discover the gargoyles. The fun is how.
Page 1 - Remember, Elisa is a plain clothes detective. She doesn't need a uniform.
Is the "promotional ladder" really an issue with her? It doesn't seem to pay off.
Do we want a crooked Captain McCoy? That didn't really pay off either. If he is crooked, how should he act on the surface? If we decide to make him honest, what should he be like?
Page 2 - Remember, Goliath is not stone at night. Though he's got tough hide-like skin, he's flesh and blood.
We need to avoid talky scenes, between Elisa and Felix, between Elisa and Goliath, etc.
Also, the mystery should last longer than it does. Perhaps we can build up Elisa's investigation. Perhaps she's been investigating Xavier for weeks. (Maybe she's undercover in his organization.) Or perhaps she's been investigating, Gargoyle related stuff for weeks...(really a clue that Demona's been around for longer than she claims.) There are a lot of options.
Is Goliath really afraid of the police? Does he even understand their significance?
Let's not make Elisa too perfect. Her initial reaction to Goliath should be one of real fear. And we need to discover what changes that for her. Does he save her life or do some other admirable thing?
Page 3 - Keep in mind that in the 10th century, Gargoyles are not considered a myth...just rare. With a lot of phony gargoyle statues placed on castle walls, to scare off attackers.
Remember that Brooklyn, Lex and Broadway are teens, not kids.
The flower picking bit didn't go over too well here.
Page 6 - Why have the trio been reluctant to explore the city up to this point?
The generic crimes that Goliath and Elisa fight on night one should probably wind up being clues, part of the puzzle toward Xavier and Demona's master plan.
Page 7 - Again, we have to track Elisa and Goliath's relationship clearly. Particularly Goliath's mindset. He thinks humanity's past saving? Does he include her at this point? Does he feel "some excitement" or is he "dejected"? He's basically territorial; how did Elisa convince him to help protect more than the castle in the first place? When he rediscovers Demona, is he fooling himself about how good the good old days were?
Is this all Xavier needed him for?
Page 8 - We're concerned that the rock band stuff might be a bit hokey, not visually fun enough. Particularly, without real rock music. Also, have the gargoyles found a use for money?
How does Elisa feel about Demona? What is the state of Elisa and Goliath's relationship at this point?
Is "electronic detective work" exciting visually? Would computer bank accounts literally list "The Raven" as depositor?
Why does Xavier send his Wardroids to attack Goliath at this point in the story?
Page 9 - How does Elisa find out about the weapons shipment? Does she suspect McCoy?
Do we want to reveal Demona's betrayal here, or do we want the audience to find out at the same time as Goliath? Our last surprise.
How did Demona survive into the present?
Page 10 - Where does this scene between Goliath and Elisa take place?
What changes Goliath's attitude?
Page 11 - A lot of talking is theoretically going on during an extended fight scene.
What does Goliath admire about humanity? How is he different from other Gargoyles, particularly Demona? Is there anything in humans that he aspires to? Does he shift from being instinctually territorial and protective of a specific location to being protective of humans (and gargoyles) in general?
cc: Gary Krisel, Bruce Cranston, Paul Lacy
Late 1994. Writer Lydia Marano and Story Editor Brynne Chandler Reaves had turned in an outline entitled "Thieves in the Night". This memo and beat outline was my response to their work.
And before you ask... I have no memory of "the Zompanos". Perhaps a pre-cursor to the Sopranos? :)
Notes on "Thieves in the Night" Outline...
The main problem for me here is the first act. From a plotting standpoint, everything with the Zompanos is largely immaterial to what follows. As with the outline for "The Mirror", the action of this story only begins at the end of Act One, when Mac and Demona stage their first attempt to steal stuff. We have to move that event up to the beginning of the act.
FOCUS ON COLDSTONE
Let's fool the audience into thinking he is the focus of the whole thing. It's a Coldstone story that turns out to be the set-up for something more dangerous. (Avalon.) To accomplish this, let's misdirect even more than we are.
I've basically cut Matt out of this story. I didn't like doing it, because I thought you gave him and Elisa a lot of nice character stuff. I even added some stuff to what you had done -- stuff that I also wound up cutting. The story was just too crowded and unwieldy with him there. (And thematically, the Elisa/Matt arc was just slightly off point.) Every time I worked on a scene, Matt got in the way. I wouldn't mind revealing just a little to him here, but there didn't seem to be any way to reveal "just a little". (Matt's not the type to just let things go or to settle for a partial explanation. And he's certainly shown a willingness to stick close to Elisa even when she's made it clear he's not welcome.)
I also would not be opposed to revealing the whole truth to Matt, but this story seemed to be too complicated to reveal just the simple truth about Goliath and company. We'd also have to tell him about Macbeth, Coldstone and maybe even Demona. It was just too much. But don't lose track of these ideas for Matt. We'll get to them all eventually.
THEME: HIGH NOON
"All that is necessary for evil to triumph is that good men do nothing." Or put another way, "You can't crawl into a hole, no matter how nice the hole is, while others suffer." Obviously, this is Othello's arc to a tee.
I'm also giving it to Elisa. And since this is a lesson that Elisa really has already internalized 100%, I'm putting her through the wringer, so that in her exhaustion, she can have a moment of weakness, a crisis point where she can consciously reaffirm her belief. It's high noon, she tells herself. Is she gonna fight the good fight or not?
To a lesser extent, Goliath and the gargoyles reaffirm this belief every time they knowingly walk into a trap. Because the only alternative -- to do nothing -- is unacceptable to them.
We can't destroy the clock tower or even "all but destroy" it without attracting considerable attention from the precinct full of cops downstairs. A thunderstorm can cover a lot of noise, I suppose, but not extensive damage or explosions that might shake the building.
I don't want to count on the fact that our audience will have seen either "City of Stone, Part Four", "Legion" or "The Mirror". I don't want to be ham-fisted in our exposition, but I do want to make sure that we find a way to reveal that when we last saw Demona and Macbeth, they were in the custody of the Weird Sisters. Also that Coldstone has three personalities due to the fact that he was created from pieces of three separate gargoyles. And finally, that thanks to Puck's spell, Demona is now human during the day -- a situation which pissed her off at first, until she discovered the benefits of it.
The "tentacle vines" and the "vortex" were all the result of the computer virus. I think we can assume by this time that the virus has wiped out all programming, including itself. All that is left inside is the personality of the three gargoyles and whatever fantasy they create inside their mutual mind.
Don't forget that Macbeth and Demona feel each other's pain. And also, as you had it in the outline, that they each share the opinion that the other is a royal pain.
1. Prologue: Coldstone's Mind. Othello and Desdemona enjoy an idyllic life in a virtual reality fantasy world that they've created. Electricity water-falls. A circuit-shaped moon. Whatever. They know it's not real, but it's close enough. They are together.
They are also aware of Iago's presence hovering darkly on the outskirts of their paradise, but he no longer has the power to come between them. They are content to let him hover.
2. Clock Tower -- Shortly before Dawn. Elisa has just ended a long night's shift and is stopping upstairs (via the broom closet) to see Goliath & co. before she heads home for some much needed sleep. Brooklyn is helping Hudson and Broadway with their reading lessons. Lexington is off in a corner working on Coldstone. Lex has opened up a metal plate on Coldstone, to get access to the circuits inside. He's hooked his laptop up to it and is checking things out. Goliath asks: is there any real hope of bringing him (her, them) back? As far as Lex can figure, the computer virus that attacked Coldstone has wiped its programming clean. Nothing's functioning, but nothing's broken. It's a blank slate. Even the virus is gone. After it finished attacking Coldstone's programming, it devoured itself. But none of that should have affected the souls of the three gargoyles that were used to create Coldstone. They were put there by magic, not programming. They've got to be in there somewhere. If Lex could devise a simple operating program, they might wake up. Well, he'll work on it some more tomorrow night. The gargoyles take their places. Sun rises. They get stoned.
3. Police Precinct -- Minutes later. Elisa's heading out the door, saying good-bye to Officer Morgan, who's also heading home. Coming in, is a uniformed female cop with red hair, pushing a felon who's got his cap pulled low over his eyes and his hands handcuffed in front of him. [Obviously, this is the human Demona and Macbeth.] Elisa pauses, and watches them head into the building and out of view. They both looked vaguely familiar, but she can't place either of them. Does Morgan know them? No, but the cop is obviously a rookie. Why else would she have cuffed the guy with his hands in front of him? Especially a guy that big.
Yeah, someone should tell her. Elisa heads back in. She spots them heading up the stairs. Sees them going around a corner. Always a step behind. Finally she sees them head into the broom closet. Horrified by what that might mean, she draws her gun, and follows them up into the clock tower.
4. Despite her precautions, she is ultimately jumped by the "felon" and the "cop". There's a struggle. And Elisa recognizes Macbeth, just before she is stunned into unconsciousness by Macbeth's lightning gun. Sweet dreams, he says. And the screen goes black.
5. Inside Macbeth's Airship - Twenty minutes later. Macbeth and the "cop" are flying along. The "cop" is angry that Macbeth wouldn't let her kill the gargoyles and especially Elisa, once and for all. Macbeth won't apologize for having a code of honor. But he's in a good mood. Their stolen cargo is safely stowed away in back, plus they got away without anybody else spotting them. "So lighten up... Demona!"
6. Clock Tower - Several hours later. Elisa comes to. She feels lousy, but she's basically all right. How long was she out? She checks her watch. Wow, most of the day. She looks around. Coldstone is gone!! Obviously taken by Macbeth and that woman. But how did they get him out of here in broad daylight? They couldn't just walk him out the door or even fly Macbeth's airship in to pick them all up without somebody noticing. Still, how they succeeded in doing it isn't as important as the fact that they did. She slumps into Hudson's recliner. "Might as well stop talking to myself and wait. It'll be sunset soon."
7. Macbeth's Mansion - Just before sundown. Human Demona is waiting for the sun to go down. Macbeth's a bit impatient. He thinks that despite her appearance, Demona's still thinking like a gargoyle. Why wait for night? Put the disk in now. She refuses. Coldstone doesn't know Macbeth, and wouldn't recognize her in her present form.
The sun goes down. Demona changes from a human into a gargoyle. The process is not without some pain. As she catches her breath, she wryly observes that despite an initial distaste for the human form, she's come to appreciate Puck's gift, although the fact that he made the transformation painful was probably his way of keeping her from appreciating it too much.
But, to work. They insert the operating program disk into Coldstone. And we push in hard and fast on Coldstone's eyes!!
8. Inside Coldstone's mind -- Same time. A tunnel of electric light appears before Othello and Desdemona. Des wonders if they should investigate, but before Othello can answer, Iago pushes them aside and glides down the tunnel out of sight. Now Desdemona is convinced they should stop or at least follow him. But Othello talks her out of it. Let him go. We are here and happy and together. What else matters?
9. Macbeth's Mansion -- Right then. Coldstone awakens and Iago is in control. He recognizes his rookery sister. (It doesn't really matter if Demona knows about Coldstone's multiple personality disorder.) She asks him how he feels. He quietly responds: vengeful. Demona and Macbeth smile at each other. They've found a friend.
10. Clock Tower -- About the same time. The gargoyles woke up and got the gist of Elisa's story while we were at commercial. But everyone has questions. Goliath left Macbeth with the Weird Sisters, how did he escape them? And how did Macbeth know about the clock tower? And who was the human woman with him? Did Elisa recognize her? She seemed really familiar, but Elisa can't quite place her. Well, there's one thing they do know: Macbeth stole Coldstone. They have to get him back. So it's off to Macbeth's mansion. Elisa'd like to go with, but she's supposed to report to work in thirty minutes. Goliath assures her the six of them can handle it. She has an entire city to protect. She's not happy about being left out, but she can see his logic. She heads downstairs, talking to herself again. (Good thing I got that long enforced nap.)
11. Macbeth's Mansion -- A short while later. The place is very quiet. The gargoyles split up to search for Coldstone. Lex with Goliath. Brooklyn and Bronx. Broadway and Hudson.
12. Macbeth's Control Room. -- A bit later. Lex and Goliath break in, prepared to battle Macbeth. He's not there. Lex hits the control panel and soon he's found Coldstone on one of the screens. And what's more, he's found the creature awake and straining against chains that bind him to the floor of the dungeon. It must be a trap, but Lex can't figure out what the trap is. Goliath's all for heading straight down to the dungeon to free Coldstone, but first Lex reminds Goliath of some hard truths. Somehow, Macbeth got Coldstone operational again. That's the good news. But there'll be no way of knowing which of Coldstone's three personalities will be in control. One of the three hates Goliath's guts. Goliath has to be careful.
13. Another area in the mansion -- about the same time. Demona attacks Brooklyn and Bronx. They weren't expecting her at all, and it looks like she's got the upper hand.
14. Another area in the mansion -- about the same time. Broadway and Hudson find Macbeth. This is exactly who they expected to find and they're ready. It's a tough battle, but the good guys win.
15. Same as Scene 13. -- exactly the same time. When Macbeth is taken out by Broadway and Hudson, Demona doubles over in pain. She recovers quickly, but she's lost the upper hand, and Brooklyn is not about to let her get it back. He and Bronx defeat Demona.
16. Dungeon -- a few minutes later. Goliath and Lex approach Coldstone. Coldstone yells a warning: It's a trap!! But from another door, Broadway's voice calls out: "Not anymore!" He and Hudson enter, toting an unconscious Macbeth. But Coldstone still warns them away. Demona is still out there. And from a third door come Brooklyn and Bronx with the unconscious Demona as well. Goliath is surprised. Demona and Macbeth obviously escaped the Weird Sisters together, but who could have predicted they'd team up? They hate each other. But he can't worry about that now. He turns to Lex. Coldstone's warnings would seem to indicate that the right rookery brother is in control. Lex: "It's probably o.k. Just stay on your guard." So Goliath and Broadway help Coldstone break his chains. He greets them all warmly. Then approaches the fallen Macbeth and Demona. He effortlessly lifts them up by their shirt fronts, in a very threatening manner. But then his rocket jets turn on and he hovers a foot above the floor. Before the gargoyles have time to react, he says, "Now." Macbeth, who, like Demona, was only faking, has a small one-button remote control hidden in the palm of his hand. He presses it. The entire floor of the dungeon electrifies and all six gargoyles are knocked out.
17. Coldstone's Brain -- right then. Othello and Desdemona hear the deafening sound of Coldstone's laughter.
18. Coldstone's Brain, in front of the electric tunnel -- a few seconds later. Obviously, Iago's up to no good. But Othello's being stubborn. Let someone else take up the cause. We have earned this peace.
19. Clock Tower -- Several hours later, just before sunrise. An exhausted Elisa is there (wearing at the very least, a different colored t-shirt, one would hope). She anxiously awaits the return of the Gargoyles. She tells herself that if they're not back by sunrise, she doesn't know what she's going to do. But before she can figure it out, she sees a winged silhouette approaching. She's initially relieved, until seconds later when Demona comes in for a landing. Elisa isn't exactly terrified. After all, the sun's coming up right now: Demona's about to turn to stone. But Demona merely laughs. And then transforms into the human woman that Elisa had seen 24 hours ago. As Demona grimaces from the pain of transformation, Elisa, despite her shock, draws her gun. If Demona's human, then she's subject to human law and under arrest.
But even unarmed, Demona has the upper hand. She, Macbeth and Coldstone have the gargoyles. If Demona doesn't return, the gargoyles won't either. She tells Elisa why she came. Before she kills Goliath, she wants to prove to him once and for all what humans are really like. So she's inviting Elisa to a high noon rendezvous at Belvedere Castle in Central Park. She warns Elisa that her only chance of surviving the encounter is to avoid it. Either Elisa dies or Goliath sees what human loyalty is really worth: either way, it works out fine for Demona, who then calmly takes her leave via the trapdoor. After a defeated beat, Elisa follows.
20. Ext. Precinct house. Elisa gets outside in time to see the Human Demona hail and get into a yellow cab. The cab pulls away, and for a second Elisa starts to follow, but then she says to herself, what's the point. I know where she's going. Officer Morgan exits the building, again on his way home. "We gotta stop meeting like this, Detective," he jokes. She's a bit dazed and just says, "I'm sorry, what?" He looks at her with concern. "You're looking a bit frayed around the edges."
Elisa: "Maybe that's because I haven't gotten any real sleep in the last 40 hours. I'm tired, hungry and, yes, afraid. I could just go home now and go to bed. When I woke up, it would be over for me. The world would suddenly be normal again. No more monsters -- good or bad. Just normal life."
Morgan: "Normal life would be nice."
Elisa: "But it isn't nice enough, Morgan. My life could never be nice enough or normal enough to make up for letting them down now. I can't crawl into a hole by myself and pretend that no one else matters."
Morgan, thinking he's finally getting it: "That's why you put on the badge."
Elisa: "Yeah, that's exactly why. Thanks, Morgan. You've been a big help." And she takes off.
Morgan, still a bit confused: "Sure, detective, anytime."
21. Belvedere Castle -- a few minutes before noon. The gargoyles are there in stone and in chains. Coldstone/Iago, Human Demona and Macbeth are there as well. Coldstone can't get over seeing the sun. He doesn't understand why he didn't turn to stone. Demona explains that he is no longer a gargoyle: day or night, he is Coldstone. Fine. But that doesn't explain how come no one in the park seems to notice their presence. Macbeth answers: "It's enough that they don't. Don't concern yourself with it." The answer satisfies Coldstone for the time being. He's in too good a mood to argue.
22. Inside Coldstone's Brain -- same time. Desdemona isn't sure that she and Othello are doing the right thing. Is this the gargoyle way? Othello tells her they are no longer really gargoyles. But he turns away, when he says it. He can't look her in the eye, cause he knows he's doing the wrong thing. But when he looks at her again, instead of seeing one Desdemona, he sees three. One with Blonde hair, one with Silver hair and one with Black hair. The Weird Sisters doing their thing.
23. Belvedere Castle -- Noon. Elisa arrives. Demona is surprised, but not upset. She lifts her plasma cannon. But Elisa says she's unarmed. Demona doesn't care, but Macbeth gets the message. This doesn't sit well, with his own strange code of honor. What's wrong, Demona? Afraid to face her on an even playing field? Thus Human Demona is goaded into a hand-to-hand match against Elisa. Demona's had a thousand years of warrior training. But not as a human. So it's pretty evenly matched.
24. Coldstone's mind -- Same time. The three Desdemona Weird Sisters confront Othello. Would he really be happy here in this false paradise knowing that he could have stopped all the damage that Iago is doing in the real world. Othello finally admits that he couldn't. The three Desdemona's merge together, leaving the real one there, a bit woozy, but still determined to help Othello fight Iago. They head down the electric tunnel together.
25. Belvedere - Right then. Coldstone/Iago suddenly cries out that he's under attack, then freezes up.
26. Inside Electric Tunnel - Right then. Iago blocks Othello and Desdemona's path. They fight. Desdemona will hold Iago at bay so that Othello can take control of Coldstone and try to repair the damage that Iago has done in the real world. With a last look back, Othello heads toward the light at the end of the tunnel.
27. Belvedere - That second. Coldstone/Othello awakens. Macbeth asks if he is all right. Coldstone simply asks for a moment to access his memory banks. He does. And then he attacks Macbeth. This catches both Macbeth and Demona off-guard and helps give Elisa the upper hand in her battle against Demona. Ultimately, Macbeth is forced to grab Demona and flee. (Maybe he summons his airship?) Coldstone starts to pursue, but Elisa needs him to help her get the chains off the guys, besides there's been enough fighting for one day. Coldstone uses his wrist cannon to snap the hold on all six. When they wake up at sunset, they should be able to shrug the chains off. Elisa asks him to stay. She knows that's what Goliath wants too. But Coldstone knows that Desdemona and Iago are still at war inside of him. The other gargoyles aren't safe from "Coldstone" until that battle is decided. He promises, that if he can, he will return someday. Then he rockets off into the sky. A few seconds later, a jogger jogs by. "Hey, where did those statues come from." Elisa heaves a big sigh. She sits down and leans back against Goliath. "Don't ask me. I'm just taking a nap."
28. Macbeth's Mansion - That night. Macbeth and Gargoyle/Demona are summing up. Demona's pissed that they failed to kill Elisa and the gargoyles, but that wasn't the primary objective. Plus they lost Coldstone, but that was always just a blind anyway. They've got the Grimorum, the Eye and the Portal-to-Avalon-Talisman. They stole all three when they took Coldstone. (They even used a spell from the Grimorum to hide their escape from the clock tower and to keep their fight in the park private.) If they had left Coldstone in the tower and only stolen the magic items, Goliath wouldn't have rested until he got them back. This way, it will be weeks before he notices that they're even gone.
But then they start to question they're own motivations: why did they want these items so badly? How did they know their secret location in the clock tower? For that matter, how did they know that the gargoyles lived at the clock tower at all? And why the heck are they working together when they hate each other's guts?
Just when they're about to murdilize each other, the Weird Sisters step in and put them both into a trance. They just made it under the wire. The "geas" spell on Demona and Macbeth was about to wear off. And of course they had no spell on Coldstone, which was why they wanted him separated from the other two. Besides they don't need Coldstone. Each of the three Sisters picks up one of the magical items. These will do quite nicely in the coming battle.
ONE LAST QUESTION: Given the above changes, does the title still work for you? I'm kind of mixed on it now.
You've said in a recent reply "One way everyone can help is by attending (or supporting) the annual gargoyles convention: THE GATHERING." I noted the word "supporting" with great interest, since the chances of my actually attending are slim. What do you mean by this? I probably won't be able to help by coming to a Gathering, but I still really want to help.
PS- Sorry if that "Mutant Cure" post of mine a while back seemed critical. I wasn't trying to be.
To learn more about supporting memberships to the Gathering.
Here's the gist of it:
Do you love "Gargoyles" and want to show your support for The Gathering, but feel left out because there's just no way you can attend this year's convention? Would you like to help our charity, Make-A-Wish, too? Now you can!
The Gathering of the Gargoyles doesn't want ANYONE to be left out. With a non-attending supporting membership, you can help celebrate "Gargoyles" AND help our charity, as well. Every non-attending supporting member will receive a certificate of appreciation, and have their name listed in our convention booklet. Plus, in a random drawing to be held during the Awards Banquet, one lucky supporting member will also be chosen to receive a FREE Gathering t-shirt!
But that's not all! For every $15.00 supporting membership purchased, The Gathering of the Gargoyles also pledges to donate $5.00 to the Los Angeles Chapter of the Make-A-Wish Foundation.
And if you're wondering what happens if you find out at the last minute that you ARE able to attend the con... don't worry! A non-attending supporting membership is FULLY UPGRADEABLE to a regular full attending membership at ANY TIME, so if you are able to make it to the con, you've lost nothing! To upgrade, you'll pay only the difference between the $15.00 supporting membership price and the current full attending membership price.
Again, check out the Gathering website for more info.
Following fast on the heels of City of Stone, here's my ramble on High Noon...
The recap is interesting here. It's all Coldstone oriented. Demona, Macbeth and the Weird Sisters aren't mentioned. Nothing from City of Stone, despite this being a direct sequel to those events. The reason is that the recaps got early criticism on a Disney Afternoon mailing list for giving too much away. We'd show a villain who didn't appear until the end of Act One, thus cueing our audience to expect that villain all along. A valid criticism. So we tried to adjust here. Coldstone's participation wasn't a secret. The episode opens in his "internal cyber-world" and he's shown dormant in the Clock Tower in the very next scene. But when Demona and Macbeth first walk past Elisa and Morgan, we're not supposed to know who they are. So I intentionally kept them out of the recap to preserve that reveal.
The heather Othello gathers has no scent. Why not? Everything in that world, except for the souls of the three gargs was simply a mental construct. Sight, sound, touch. So why not smell? No chemical senses, you might argue. But why no chemical senses? Why touch and not taste? I think that the lack of smell was an unconscious or subconscious boundary that Desdemona did not want to cross. Something to remind her that this world is not real. For all we know, Othello and Iago could smell whatever they imagined they could smell.
I like seeing Hudson and Broadway learning to read. We cheated a bit. I'm not sure they could have progressed as fast as they did in the short time since "Lighthouse". But we took that liberty to show that they had been working assiduously at it.
I have mixed feelings about Hudson's "Why would she want to 'hit a sack'?" line. On the one hand, I'm not sure we ever did enough of this. Playing with the contrasts in language and expression between their world and ours. On the other hand, it just seemed a bit late in the game for Hudson not to have heard this one already. (And for that matter, I have no idea when that particular phrase originated. For all I know they've been hitting the sack since the Middle Ages.)
Elisa makes a point of saying that she's "no hero". Just a gal doing a job. But of course, we know that's not true. It's simply how she'd prefer to view herself -- particularly when she's so tired. I tried to use this episode to emphasize that Elisa works the night shift. That she gets off work just before sunrise. Starts work just after sunset. (I actually imagine that she works a four day ten hour shift, plus mucho overtime.) Sometimes it seemed like the fans had forgotten that. I got a lot of questions back then like: "She works during the day and hangs with the gargoyles at night. When does she sleep?"
Morgan has a real nice role in this one. Keith is great as Morgan. So distinctive from Goliath in a part that was a mere throwaway in Awakening, Part One. Morgan and Elisa's easy rapor in this episode and Avalon One is what gave me the idea that he might someday ask her out (on that 2nd Halloween episode I've mentioned a few times). And the notion of a Keith-Salli-Keith triangle tickled me a bit.
Enter Macbeth as a perp with a human Demona dressed as a cop. (Always nice to show our characters in different costumes on occasion.) I'm curious how many people IMMEDIATELY recognized Demona as herself? After all, you'd only gotten a BRIEF glimpse of her human form in "The Mirror". And we hadn't shown it at all in "Vows" or "City of Stone". In fact, City of Stone began what we then called our Third Tier of stories. (Tier One was the first season. Tier Two was the first eight episodes of the second season: Leader, Legion, Metamorphosis, Lighthouse, Silver Falcon, Mirror, Eye of the Beholder, Vows.) And of course, City of Stone was transitional, so one could argue that Tier Three was beginning here with High Noon. Anyway, Demona's in atypical dress and species. Who knew it was her?
And once you did know, what were you thinking? The gargoyles have the same questions, I'd imagine. Last they (and you) saw, Mac and Demona hated each other, and had been taken away by the seemingly benevolent Weird Sisters. What was going through your heads about all this? Did you wonder at the seeming inconsistencies, like their knowledge of the Clock Tower? Their ability to get Coldstone out of the tower in daylight, unseen?
When my son Ben saw Demona, he thought it was one of the "triplets", which is what he calls the Weird Sisters. (They've fast become his favorite characters.) When I pointed out that she had red hair and not white, yellow or black, he was resistent to giving up on the idea that they weren't going to appear. (I was glad they eventually did. And now I wonder what he's going to think about the next seven episodes in which they do NOT appear.)
Throughout this, we cheat a bit on Elisa's exhaustion. We knock her out, but keep her tired. The subtle differences between various means of being unconscious and their effects on how tired one is confuse me.
I love Mac and D's exchange...
Mac: "You're still thinking like a gargoyle."
D: "I am a gargoyle." And don't you forget it.
Again, back in those days I just thought the audience would get revved up merely because we were teaming up THREE of our major villains. Macbeth, Demona and the villainous side of Coldstone. In Batman or Superman that would be a BIG EVENT. A huge threat to the hero. Did it have that effect on you guys? I feel vaguely that in a strange way, it did not. That our villains were so complex, that for once they backfired on us. That it wasn't viewed as, "Wow, our heroes have barely survived an encounter with one of those guys, how will they handle three?" Rather, the conflict was less interesting than the machinations and personalities. Am I being clear? Your thoughts?
This episode had some truly gorgeous animation in it. And the transformation scenes are both very cool. The Pain Link plays well here, though occasionally seems more geared to comedy than drama for some reason. The theme of gifts coming with a price... particularly the gifts of tricksters is emphasized in this scene.
Meanwhile Othello is desperately trying to remain an ostrich with his head in the sand. A position that on at least one level, Elisa 'believes' she'd like to take as well. With Othello, I think it's a real possibility that he will never act. With Elisa, I don't think we believe it for a moment. That's part of the reason they're both in there. To make sure that the theme of "Standing Up" is emphasized. Which brings us to the title, "HIGH NOON". That was one of mine, I believe. And I stole it right from the Gary Cooper movie. Sure we'd have a battle at High Noon. Because this was Elisa's story, not the gargoyles. Because the gargoyles would be asleep and vulnerable. But also because it was that kind of archetypal the-hero-stands-alone western battle.
You may notice that Xander Berkeley (the voice of Iago) does not appear in this episode. Because Iago has no lines when he's not in control of the Coldstone body. Again, I'm always so impressed with what a great job Michael Dorn does contrasting the Othello and Iago personalities without actually changing his voice.
I like Elisa's line when Brooklyn asks her if she recognized the woman with Macbeth. "She seemed familiar." Think about this for a second. If this was real life and not a cartoon, do you think you'd recognize Demona in Dominique? And yet I completely buy that Elisa recognized something in there. There's a strange nega-intimacy between Elisa and Demona. (Which is one of the sick reasons why I created Delilah, later.)
Goliath and Elisa engage in a little dueling patronizing here. Elisa has to go back on shift, so can't accompany the 'goyles to Mac's place. Goliath is pretty smug when he says the six of them can handle it. (The smugness, I hope, is undercut when he follows it up by saying, "You have a whole city to protect." Which is how he views it.) Then Elisa talks to them like they're little kids. She wants a full report when they get back. (Who says these two weren't made for each other?)
Lex, who has been and will continue to be very adept at breaking alarm systems, etc., for once admits that it's all too easy.
I like the moment when Goliath taps the camera with his wing. A nice little touch. And very well animated.
Lex is always the voice of warning in regards to Coldstone. This is important. Goliath listens to Lex this time. And Lex is fooled when Coldstone reveals Demona's involvement, seemingly before they know Demona is involved. I thought that was very clever on the villains' part.
Bronx smells Demona behind the closet, just as he did behind the tapestry.
I like how the marble bust flies and crashes. Another nice touch in the boarding and animation. Nice weight to the whole Brooklyn-Demona-Bronx fight scene.
I liked staging the Macbeth, Husdon, Broadway fight in a library. Felt like a thematic rematch from "Lighthouse".
The pain link here is a BIT of a cheat. Usually with them in different rooms on different floors, it wouldn't be quite this intense. Maybe the library is directly above whatever room Demona was in.
Lex is sure Coldstone's wrong about Demona. Brooklyn's "Uh, guess again." line is fun.
The entire battle at Macbeth's place is part of a technique I enjoy using on occasion called "Suspended Structure". This is really an Elisa and Othello Story. But we let the gargs carry the action for a period of time, while the true protagonists can't or won't take action. This keeps the story moving, without compromising the inaction of our "leads".
Demona confronts Elisa at the clock tower. The animators get a little carried away here with some of Demona's body language. God knows, it's fun to watch. But would she really do all those sexpot poses? Is that in character?
It is fun to see her hail a taxi though.
Morgan's back. Elisa now looks VERY tired. Again, great work from the animators. It's all in the eyes. Morgan helps Elisa though he thinks she's just talking about normal copwork. It only proves there's really no such thing as a "Normal Life". Morgan certainly doesn't think he has one.
Meanwhile Desdemona's gettin antsy. It's the "in" that the Weird Sisters need. They take over. Unfortunately, here, the animators screwed up. The three Desdemona's were supposed to have silver, gold and raven hair. Instead, in most shots, they just look like three Dessies. Then when they finally do get the hair right, it's just before they merge back into one Desdemona. At which point, the hair color should have been Des'. Instead, I think it's Luna's -- briefly. Oh, well. Anyway, I could have just done this with Desdemona herself. But I wanted to give the audience a hint that the Weird Sisters were still involved. Ben was thrown by the hair. He almost didn't believe these were the triplets.
I like the line: "Even shadows must be true to their shade."
High Noon at Belvedere Castle. Coldstone wonders that he can see the sun. Again, that's me making sure people are clear that Coldstone is RE-ANIMATED STONE, not flesh. I don't think it's visually clear. (Part of the problem being that Othello's coloring is too similar.)
Then Elisa arrives -- counting on Macbeth's honor to keep Demona from shooting her. For that reason, she intentionally doesn't bring her service revolver to the party. Quite the gambit. Elisa also counts on Demona's temper -- and on the fact that Demona is unaccustomed to fighting with reduced human strength. She goads Demona: "I'm here to save him." and "You fight like a rookie." I love, positively LOVE, the former of those two lines. Elisa is a hero in her own right. Though Goliath has rescued her on occasion, I felt we did a pretty good job of always evening the score. She's no damsel in distress.
Mac & Coldstone: "This is diverting." "You have no idea." (Quotations approximate.) I like that. A tip of the hat to my being a guy, if you will.
We cheat a bit here on the pain link too. One could argue that Mac IS feeling the pain. But he's ready for it and covering. He does seem to be grimacing a bit when he says, "You have no idea." But still, I think we cheated.
I love the animation on the Othello, Desdemona, Iago fight.
Battle over, Coldstone leaves. Sends himself into exile. This is the gargoyle way.
And hey, our jogger is back. Again wondering where all these statues are coming from. That's just fun continuity for me. And Elisa: "Don't ask me. I'm just taking a nap."
And then the whole final scene between Mac and D and the sisters is so much fun. I love the sense of the fog lifting from their eyes. "What Primary Objective?" "Why are we working together?"
And I'm also proud of the trick. A very Xanatosian tag here. Steal Coldstone to distract the gargs from noticing the thefts of the gate, book and eye.
And how about that reference to "The coming battle..." that the Sisters end the episode on? What did you all think of that at the time?
I'll try to post the High Noon writer's memo tomorrow. (Meant to do it yesterday, but I forgot.) Anyway, Done rambling. You're turn. (Again, I'm interested in both your original and current responses to the episode.)
Last time ... for now ... then I've GOTTA go back to work.
nope. But come back soon.
My curiosity has gotten the best of me ...
nope. But keep trying.
After a long hiatus to rest my brain, I am back on the job
Gargoyles 2198 Contest
After a long hiatus to rest my brain, I am back on the job
Gargoyles 2198 Contest
Thanks for trying Phil. BUt no.
There is some kind of 'End of Time' place in the Gargoyles Universe? A place that is out of the timestream.
Sort of. Not really. But sort of.
Jim R.'s last question made me think of one myself. in "Heritage" were the totem poles at least partially inspired by gargoyles or just as a sign of the people's animal ancestors as Natsilane said, after all, at that point he certaintly didn't know much about the gargs or even the heritage of himself and his people. he didn't really believe any of it...
Natsilane and Grandmother were right.
Idle question from idle fingers: how many of the original Beatles were alive at the time of "Hunter's Moon"? For that matter, how many were there to begin with? Inquiring minds (all right, just my mind) want to know!
Unless you're trying to be tricky and include folks like Pete Best and Stu Sutcliffe, and all the various other "Fifth Beatles" I've heard about...
There were four Beatles... John, Paul, George and Ringo.
At the time of "Hunter's Moon", three of them were alive. Paul, George and Ringo. Those three are still alive as I type this.
Now did we really need to waste all of our time on this?
Did you know Dave Anchors?
No. Who was Dave Anchors?
How long would a gargoyle last in college? And would he be able to afford it? :)
That would depend on the gargoyle. And the financial aid package.
Just out of curiosity and no other reason, how do you feel about crossovers?
Some are great. Some are feeble. I generally take these things on a case by case basis. Did you have something particular in mind?
I saw a book on Disney once at the bookstore which included a little bit on "Gargoyles" and described it as being television's first animated drama. In your opinion, how accurate is that description? That it was Disney's first television animated drama, I certainly don't dispute, but I know that there are many people who would dispute the "first animated drama" designation for "Gargoyles" on the grounds of "Batman: TAS", for example. I was wondering what your own assessment of the statement might be.
I think there are many innacuracies in that little blurb. That's just one.
Where can I get a complete videotape collection from the Gargoyles episodes? Does it exist?
Best animated series ever!!!!
Thanks. And I don't know.
After seeing He-Who-Shall-Not-Be-Named's request for a short summary of "Deadly Force," I thought I'd pitch something to both of you, Greg and Gore, in light of all these types of requests: Post a link to the Gargoyles Fan Website somewhere in Ask Greg. It has, of course, every episode of the series, bulleted, synopsised, and reviewed.
What is the link?
Correction for my last Ask Greg response. I accredited Demona's guilt, grief, and brief super-gargoyle aging appearance to the episode "Vows" when I meant it was in one of the "City of Stone" flashbacks. I apologize for any confusion.
At some point it just hit me to thank you. I got a 4 (out of 5, which is still pretty good) on the Language Advanced Placement exam. Since watching Gargoyles and writing about it while in seventh grade was strongly responsible, I decided that a "thank you" was in order, so...
You're very welcome, Duncan. I doubt I can take much credit, but I'm proud we were able to help at all. As a former (and still occasional) teacher, very proud.
I recently read not just "The King Must Die" (actually, the reading that I did for the upcoming GBC discussion was a rereading, since I'd originally read it some months before) but also "The Bull From the Sea" (I decided that I'd like to read the rest of Renault's take on Theseus). And I can certainly agree with you that both books are a very effective take on the Theseus story.
One bit that stood out to me was the impact that Hippolyta's death makes on Theseus. Renault, like you yourself, interpreted Theseus and Hippolyta's union as one of equals and one of the peaks in his life. So her death in battle is indeed devastating for him from just that alone. But the additional touch that Renault added on made the impact of Hippolyta's death all the more chilling, and fitted in all the better with Theseus's decline afterwards. For Renault makes it clear that Theseus is meant to make the "Kingly Sacrifice" (the leading thematic element of the two books) in the battle with the Amazons - but instead, he lives and Hippolyta is the "King" who dies willingly. The King has died, but the wrong king - and the impression that I received is that Theseus's not making the "Kingly Sacrifice" of himself in the battle is what sets his doom in motion thereafter, the fact that he has, in a sense, failed his duty.
The other element that particularly stood out to me - and again, struck me as having an effectively chilling touch to it - was the manner of Hippolytus's death, with Theseus for once abusing his gift from Poseidon to predict earthquakes and turning his prediction into a curse - leading to his permanent loss of the ability thereafter.
At any rate, I'm glad that you mentioned and recommended it to the folks here; I certainly was glad to read both books.
Todd, as usual we are very in sync. I was also very effected by those moments.
(My one caveat is that I feel strongly that Hippolyta was the traditional name of the Amazonian "king". Almost more of a title than a name. And that her true name was Antiope.)
I'm glad you liked the books. (Is anyone else reading them?)
Why did the FBI fire Matt? Did they just think that he was too much of a nutcase, or was there some darker reason (such as pressure from the Illuminati) involved?
One "Max Steel" question that I've been meaning to ask you for some time, over a matter that genuinely puzzled me. The story of how he became Max Steel was done, not in the very first episode of the series, but in the third one (at least, the third one from the point of view of intended order of release), via a flashback. And that always surprised me a little, since the origin story struck me as something that I would have expected to see in the first episode. It would have been as if "Gargoyles" had opened with Goliath and his clan already being in New York for some time and the story in "Awakening" being done as a flashback in a later episode (and I mean by the story in "Awakening", all of it, including the present-day parts such as the Cyberbiotics raid and the first battle with the Steel Clan). I was wondering why you took that particular route in the series.
It was largely a decision that came out of the decision that stated NO MULTI-PARTERS. Trying to introduce characters, locations, situations, etc. at the same time that you are introducing the origins of all that stuff is nearly impossible to do in 22 minutes. So we break up the story into two separate stories. And create a bit of intriguing mystery. (Or so I hoped.)
when Derek was mutated into a panther like mutate did you have "Mark of the Panther" in mind? i found it really great that Diane was telling this story about humans turning into panthers, which is kinda what happened to her son, and then is still surprised when the were-panthers change, and again has seen Derek as a pseudo-gargoyle and still is shocked by the gargoyles in Nigeria with Elisa!
We suspend our disbelief. And eventually, nothing seems too weird, I suppose. But from Diane's POV, I don't think that's automatic. It's a step-by-step process. One thing doesn't lead into another.
And no, we didn't have "Mark" in mind when we planned Talon. Talon developed out of a character called Catscan in our original development. But we did have Talon in mind when we wrote "Mark".
Where can I find pictures of the middle age Gargoyles?
I don't know. Where?
At times, have you considered NOT working on new Gargoyles stuff and just leaving the series as is? I would understand if you gave up, tho I'd be a little disappointed (among others). It would be a shame, but thats life. Tho it seems like you've come close already with one of the spin offs.
Sometimes I think it would be more healthy if I just gave up. Then if it came back it would be a pleasant surprise.
But I can't give up. Just can't.
Generally, what does an Executive producer do, as in preparing a show like Gargoyles?
Well, I wasn't an Executive Producer. Gargoyles didn't have any executive producers.
I was a Supervising Producer. I came up with all the springboards, reviewed all premises, outlines, scripts. Supervised Voice Recordings, edit sessions, sound mixes and on-line sessions. Gave notes on all designs, storyboards and animation. I was a busy boy.
Is there really a garden maze known as the "Brooklyn Botanical Gardens" in Brooklyn, NY? And is there really a dragon statue in the middle? Just wondering...
There is a Brooklyn Botanical Gardens. But we made up most of the rest. (That's my story and I'm sticking to it.)
In the beginning of "Temptation" episode, how did the Trio manage to find an empty warehouse and welding tools? And how did they manage to fix the motorcycle without any notice from bystanders or other people?
Well, they searched around until they found a place they could get into and use after dark. In a neighborhood where most people don't hang after the sun sets.
B&E, of course. I don't recommend it.
About Hunter's Moon 3, this is how I remembered the final battle: Goliath was pounding his fists on Jon's armor. His helm was cracking and was about break. Then Goliath rip the collar off and that's where Elisa came in to stop the fight.
That was the first time I saw the episode 5 years ago, at least how I remembered it. I seen it recently this year, but the scene changed: The pounding scene was removed and only the collar ripping was left. Did my memory play some tricks on me? Do you know if the scene I describe first was the original sequence or my tv station edited the scene?
It's been awhile for me too, I'm afraid. And my memory isn't quite that specific. My tapes tend to be the version originally aired. Not those later corrected or re-edited by Toon Disney. I'm slowly rewatching all the episodes. Remind me when I get close.
Or come to the Gathering in Los Angeles this June. Lots of tapes there.
I just read a question that interested me. I thought that I had seen all of the Garg episodes, but now I know that I haven't. I started watching the show last summer, on Toon Disney; I watched it every night, from Awakenings back to Awakenings. Anyway, the question asked why Toon Disney refused to air Dark Force. Never heard of it. Could you give us "rookies" a lil synopsis?
I think you mean "Deadly Force". Toon Disney does refuse to air this episode. In it, Broadway accidentally shoots Elisa with her own gun. She is rushed to a hospital and nearly dies.
(Question: Did you wonder in Enter Macbeth why Elisa was on crutches? Did you wonder what she was talking about in "The Edge" when she tries to get Chavez to NOT partner her with Matt?)
I as curious to know if gargoyles lived in North America before Columbus discovered it in 1492? I mean, surely the native americans (Indians) must have seen them. Because the episode involving Raven and Grandmother specifically indicates totem poles in the forms of gargoyles.
Actually, you weren't paying close attention. We made a point of saying the totem poles were not modeled on Gargoyles. (Raven lies about this, but Grandmother is clear. And by the end of the episode, it's also clear who to trust.)
Having said that, I have every reason to believe that Gargs lived in North America before 1492. After all, they clearly lived in South America before 1492.
Would a gargoyle be any different in space than a human? Does their physiology differ that much from ours if they were to be sent into space? And do gargoyles have a lesser tolerance for gravity then us seeing how they are more like birds and bats that have wings? (I would think their skeletal structure would be hollower than that of a human so they could generate lift)
As I've said before, nothing about Goliath's strength suggests a hollow skeleton to me.
Otherwise, there are going to be some differences. But not obvious stuff like gravity and oxygen and vaccuum.
you've said numerous times that there are no aquatic or amphibious gargoyles, however in "Ill Met by Midnight" as Katherine, Goliath, and everyone are arriving at the castle at the beginning of the ep there is a Avalon clan garg shown that looks extremely aquatic. he has what looks to be gills, fins, fishy looking eyes, webbed appendages, and on top of everything else is a aquamarine hue. i just thought i'd mention it...
I haven't seen that episode in a while. I'd have to look again.
And by the way, I've "said numerous times that there are no aquatic or amphibious gargoyles"? When? At any rate, it depends how you define "aquatic".
Thoughts about time travel:
There is a little controversy about time travel vs. free will. If the past is unchangeable -and also the future, for consequence- then there is _no_ free will?
On the contrary; The events in the past can't be changed, but they WERE and ARE done by us. That's easy to guilt the others or the timestream, but, quoting Rorschach, from Watchmen:
"That's not God who kill the children, nor the chance who shred they, nor the destine who feed the dogs with they. They're us. Only us". (I'm translating to english from a translation to the portuguese. :-)
Plus, on the contrary of the common sense, change the past is not use free will, but kill it: Demona betrayed Wyvern. If she came back and change this, she should be obstructing her OWN free will. And her responsability, to boot. And responsability is one of the series' themes.
This is a paradox, but, with time travel, what else did you want? The unchangeable past universe IS the free will universe. :-)
Oh, well, now back to my time travel questions:
1- Roughly, when was the Phoenix Gate "created"? Meaning when it droped in Avalon, starting the time loop.
2- If the Phoenix Gate is a "steam valve" and it exists among two time points (??? or before and 2198 or after), what was the steam valve before the Gate? And after?
Ps. I just wanted to say that I fully understood the time loops in Vows, Avalon II and M.I.A. and I loved then. Vows and Avalon were amazing and smart, and M.I.A. was just too fun: Goliath couldn't change the history, but he was so smart that he could trick it! Great work.
Before we get to your questions, Bruno, let me just say that I agree with you on your time travel/free will thing.
1. I don't want to reveal that yet. It's intrinsic to the whole TimeDancer story.
2. Stories for another day.
In your "Vows" ramble, you asked from were came "more's the pity".
Well, I was reading Richard III and found it in the scene 1, act 1: Hastings and Gloucester are talkin about Hastings being freed from the tower, and Clarence throwed there:
MORE PITY that the eagle should be mew'd,
While kites and buzzards prey at liberty.
Yeah. But is that the original? And how and when did it take the current form?
In "Double Jeopardy" Sevarius implied that Thailog's odd skin and hair color was due to the "artificial maturation rate". That said, would Thailog have been the same color as Goliath if he had been allowed to age "naturally"?
do all the clans of 1996 have beasts, or at least beast eggs?
Anyway this one questioning has been tugging me at sometime. and I just needed to know the answer to it. So, here it goes:
"Do gargoyles believe in Religon?"
I know it sounds strange.But, I have heard them at times....I think it was Hudson who said."By, the Dragon". Does that mean that the gargoyles DO believe in a higher power. Or if not..would they believe in
human religons' or something like that?
Thanks for your time.
Try checking out the "Gargoyles Customs" archive for a more complete answer.
The gargoyles have a religion of sorts. It's also slimly possible that some individuals might have in the past or the future believe in a human religion here or there.
ANd I think it was Iago who said, "By the Dragon."
What species were Zeus, Hades and Poseidon in the Gargoyles universe?
Since stroking hair is gargoyle equilvant to a kiss, all the times Goliath touched Elisa's hair was a kiss? And how long would it take him to get used to kissing with lips?
Just feeling a trifle silly with that thought. But I seem to remember Goliath touching her hair fondly before they noticed or decided to act on the feelings they have for each other.
Kissing is special, particularly romantic kissing. I'm not sure one wants to "get used to it" ever. It will always be special to Goliath.
And yes, everytime he touched her hair in any intimate way (as opposed to by accident or incidentally) it was the basic equivalent of a kiss. But by the way, it wasn't often.
Ok, Hi how are you/
This is driving me crazy. I hate going to sites when i don't know what they are talking about. In the achives you said something about Elisa and Golith dating not having to be each other.Was this a episode did i like miss a series or something. What about Delihla (i didn't spell that right)Please explain where did this come from are they your ideas or something.(i'm not dissing them, i'm just confused)Oh and i say pics with the gargs in the street with not panicing people where did that come from.
Oh, and from what i do understand about this one thing which is little,are you trying to break up the star couple. Saying Elisa and Jason could maybe work it out, or something about Morgan. I don't know i just need to know if i missed something or what.
"Elisa and Golith dating not having to be each other"
I don't know what that phrase means. That can't be an exact quote of mine, can it?
Proofreading would help, Tk.
But I gather you are referring to a story that I did NOT get around to doing. A story where Elisa and Goliath would temporarily break up. Where they would go on a double date on Halloween. Goliath with Delilah. Elisa with either Jason or Morgan. (I hadn't decided which.) And no, I wasn't breaking them up. The double date would be a fiasco -- for a number of reasons. And E & G would wind up a couple again.
Does that help?
Hey, um. Sorry about Question 2 in my Angela post.
I guess you DID say that you weren't gonna answer in questions about 2198 until the contest was over. (Although SOME people are already asking questions.
Here are some questions of my own.
1. Do Arthur and his comrades go on a quest to retrieve the Holy Grail. (I think I've seen yes in the archive). If so, does this pit the against Percival/Duval, the leader of the Illuminati.
2. Does Macbeth get involved.
1. Eventually and yes.
2. A bit.
Where does King Arthur expect to find Merlin if he does continue to persue him?
He's largely clueless, frankly. He tried to find him back in the day, and couldn't.
You know once upon a time -- particularly when Cary Bates and I lived in NYC and had no real life outside DC Comics and spent every free moment going to movies -- I used to see over two hundred movies a year. I'm not kidding.
But no longer.
The oscar nominations were announced. And I went down the entire list and realized I've only seen EIGHT of the nominated films. That's 8 out of ALL the films nominated in ANY category.
Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon
Meet the Parents
The Emperor's New Groove
Not that anyone asked, but here's my assesment of the eight. (Obviously, I can't speak to any of the others.)
Gladiator - I was really enjoying this film most of the way through. I never thought it was Oscar callibre, but I liked it --right up until the end. I thought the ending however was so preposterous and awful, it spoiled my enjoyment of the whole film. Blech.
Cast Away - I just thought this was plain awful all the way through. The only section I was interested in was what happened (SPOILERS) after he got off the island. But that was given preposterously short shrift. Double Blech.
Meet the Parents - I disliked this so intensely, I walked out of it partway through. Went to a bookstore while my wife and friend Tuppence finished watching the movie. This is only the second film I've walked out on in my entire life. (Not counting movies I had to leave because of baby-sitting emergencies or bomb threats.) Triple Blech.
102 Dalmations - Oh, how I wish I could have walked out on this. But I was there with my kids. They enjoyed it well enough at the time, but have already forgotten about it. Double Blech.
Now the good news.
Almost Famous - I really enjoyed this one. Very well-acted, well-written. Funny. I didn't LOVE it the way some of the critics did. But I was really surprised it didn't do better at the box office. Smile.
Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon - I really enjoyed this. Structurally, it's a bit odd. But I liked it a lot. Definitely one of the best films I saw this year... but as you can see, that's not saying much. Double Smile.
The Grinch - Another film I took my kids too. I enjoyed this one though. No, it's no classic the way the old Christmas special was. But there's a lot to recommend. And I had fun. Smile.
The Emperor's New Groove - A third film I took my kids too. This was a very pleasant surprise. A straight-forward simple story played for laughs. From the previews, I didn't think I'd like it. But, hey, I liked it a lot. Smile.
Now as for the nominations...
Picture - I have only two to choose from Gladiator and Dragon. Obviously I'd pick Dragon.
Actor - Russell Crowe over Tom Hanks. I liked Crowe's performance. (I just find it hard to believe it was the best performance this year.)
Actress - I saw none of the nominated performances.
Director - Again, I'll pick Ang Lee for Crouching over Ridley Scott for Gladiator.
Supporting Actor - Joaquin Phoenix by default. The only one of the performances I saw. But I thought he was much better in THE YARDS.
Supporting Actress - This is tough. I think I'd pick Frances McDormand over Kate Hudson (both from Almost Famous). But it's close.
Original Screenplay - Cameron Crowe's for Almost Famous over the three guys from Gladiator in a second.
Adapted Screenplay - The three guys from Crouching by default. (I don't think the screenplay was this movie's strong suit.) Does anyone remember if High Fidelity was a 2000 release? I loved that movie and can't believe it wasn't nominated.
Foreign Film - Crouching by default.
Art Direction - I think I will pick Grinch over Gladiator and Crouching.
Cinematography - Crouching over Gladiator.
Costume Design - Crouching over Gladiator, Grinch and 102 Dalmations.
Documentary Feature - I've seen none of these.
Documentary Short - I've seen none of these either.
Film Editing - Almost Famous over Crouching and Gladiator.
Make-up - Grinch by default.
Original Score - Gladiator over Crouching.
Original Song - "My Funny Friend and Me" by Sting and David Hartley from Emperor's Groove over "A Fool in Love" by Randy Newman from Parents and "A Love Before Time" from Crouching.
Animated Short Film - I've seen none of these. Which is odd.
Live Action Short Film - I've seen none of these. Which isn't odd.
Sound - Gladiator over Cast Away.
Sound Editing - I've seen neither of the nominees.
Visual FX - Gladiator by default.
Of course, there's a slim possibility that I'll see a couple more of the nominated films before the award show itself. I'll let you know if my opinions change.
But mostly I reiterate the word I started with. Pathetic.
I apologize for all the repetition of late, but I wanted this "Originial Development File" Archive to be as complete as possible.
Last pitch you saw was the tenth version, designed specifically for Tod McFarlane. Don't know what happened to version 11. But here's version twelve, marked FINAL. Not many changes that I notice. But worth a skim... (And this is the version I show on tape at the Gathering.)
GARGOYLES Pitch Twelfth & Final Pass (Weisman / 4-8-93)
1. Trio of typical stone GARGOYLES.
"These are GARGOYLES. Ugly, stone statues that squat on the roofs of old buildings. But there was a time, one thousand years ago, when gargoyles were real, living creatures. During the day, they slept...frozen in stone."
2. GOLIATH, the GARGOYLE-MASTER leading attack.
"But when the sun went down, GOLIATH, the GARGOYLE-MASTER would lead his gargoyle-warriors in defense of the king's castle."
3. Goliath reading in library, sitting on small gargoyles.
"And if there was no battle to be fought, he'd retreat to the library to read and learn, all the while making sure that the other gargoyles stayed out of trouble."
4. HUMANS scorning Goliath.
"For all these efforts, Goliath received no reward, no thanks or even kindness. In fact, the people of the castle treated all gargoyles with nothing but contempt."
5. Goliath, alone in the throneroom.
"Still Goliath could no more stop guarding the castle than breathing the air. It's part of a gargoyle's nature to be territorial, protective. And so for years, he maintained his lonely vigil. Then one night, Goliath was betrayed and lured away from his post."
6. SORCERER curses Goliath and the other gargoyles.
"The castle was overrun and sacked. Goliath and the surviving gargoyles were unfairly blamed. The kingdom's SORCERER laid a curse upon them, and they fell into a stone sleep--that lasted a thousand years."
7. Castle on the skyscraper.
"New York City, 1994. A rich and powerful man has decided there's a better place for a medieval castle than a picturesque hill in Scotland. He's moved the whole deal--lock, stock and gargoyle--to the top of the tallest skyscraper in Manhattan."
8. Police Detective ELISA CHAVEZ.
"All of which means absolutely nothing to New York City Police Detective, ELISA CHAVEZ. She doesn't care about castles, and she doesn't believe in curses. She's hot on the trail of a major badguy."
9. Goliath observes her ambushed on rooftop by THUGS.
"A trail that leads her right into an ambush. Fortunately, a shadowy figure sees what's happening and decides to help."
10. Reveal THE GARGOYLE, as he dives into fray.
"That shadowy figure is THE GARGOYLE."
11. Goliath battles three thugs.
"Now when you're as strong as Goliath, benchpressing two badguys is easy. And that stone-like hide of his makes him practically invulnerable..."
12. Goliath & Elisa, in moonlight.
"...To everything but Elisa's kindness. She is the first human being who's ever offered him understanding and friendship, hope..."
13. From the skyscraper, Elisa shows Manhattan to Goliath.
"...And a sense of purpose. She introduces him to his new home, Manhattan, and asks for his help in protecting it against modern-day barbarians."
"Fortunately, our hero doesn't have to face those barbarians alone. This is Goliath's old friend HUDSON, a veteran Gargoyle-Warrior. Hudson helps out by keeping an eye on the young Warriors-in-Training..."
15. BROOKLYN, LEXINGTON and BROADWAY.
"...BROOKLYN, LEXINGTON and BROADWAY. (Uh, they picked their own names.)"
16. BRONX, the DOG. (Multiple poses.)
"And then there's BRONX, the angst-ridden Gargoyle-dog. He's not a big fan of adventure."
17. Bronx (two poses) chewing on a fire hydrant and flying.
"He just likes to eat a lot, sleep a lot and make a general mess."
18. Goliath and Elisa on the subway.
"Now, Goliath has wider interests...but it can be hard for a seven-foot medieval monster to squeeze into the modern world."
"Especially with XAVIER around. Rich, powerful and arrogant, Xavier bought the gargoyles' castle. Now he thinks he owns the gargoyles as well."
20. Robot attacks Goliath.
"If something rotten is happening in New York...odds are Xavier's behind it."
21. Goliath battles DEMONA.
"But Goliath's greatest foe is the evil gargoyle DEMONA. Once she and Goliath were friends. But a thousand years ago, it was her betrayal that cost him the castle. Now she's his sworn enemy, and she won't rest until she owns the night..."
22. Stone version of Goliath in daylight.
"And the night is all that matters, because the gargoyles still sleep as stone statues during the day, finding an outdoor ledge just before sunrise and striking a pose that could give you nightmares."
23. Goliath with Elisa and the other Gargoyles.
"But when the sun goes down, they're our only protection against the city's dark terrors."
24. 'GARGOYLES' Logo.
"They are...the GARGOYLES."
25. KID at Disneyland.
"Joining the Disney Family in 1994."
After trying for a couple months, we went our seperate ways with our first writer. (Hopefully parting on good terms.)
Writer #2 was Eric Luke, another very talented guy. This document is largely a rehashing of what had already been done to that point, collated together for Eric's benefit as he started work on the pilot.
GARGOYLES March, 93
Notes on the opening to the Gargoyle T.V. Movie:
--We want to keep the story largely from Goliath's point of view. His problems. His tragedies. But we don't want him to be a morose character. He's optimistic. He believes that in time humans and gargoyles will learn to get along better. He has a sense of humor. He's heroic not dour.
--Hudson is Goliath's aide and advisor. He is NOT a baby-sitter to the kids. In fact, if Goliath requested him to act as baby-sitter, he'd probably refuse. From Hudson's point of view, Goliath's the gargoyle-master, and the kids are his responsibility.
--Anyway, we'd like to establish the kids independence from the get-go, to help establish them as being more teen-age in nature than real young. They don't need a chaperone. They're cocky and gung ho.
--We also feel strongly that the castle should be home to both the gargoyles and the humans in 994 A.D. We discussed the following back-back-story as rationale:
Long before 994, there was a gargoyle rookery high on a rocky promontory overlooking the sea. Medieval man sought out these rookeries as prime real estate for building their fortresses or castles. For one reason, the cliffside protected there backs, and the only accessible wall was easily manned by archers, etc. Secondly, medieval man knew that the gargoyles were instinctively territorial and protective of the rookery's inhabitants, whether those inhabitants were gargoyles or humans. If the humans of the castle could put up and co-exist with the gargoyles they'd have a built in group of warriors at night. And it was mutually beneficial: the gargoyles received human protection during the day.
Though not as rare in Europe as, say, the giraffe, even then Gargoyles and their rookeries were scarce. A castle-builder who couldn't find one to build on might carve stone gargoyles to fool and thus scare away would-be attackers. (Back then everyone knew about gargoyles.)
But our castle in Scotland was built on a rookery. And the gargoyles and humans have coexisted there for years. But as our story opens, relations are tense. Humanity as a race is taking on airs. To the humans, the gargoyles are uncouth. Grotesque. Ill-mannered. Nocturnal, and therefore noisy at night when humans are trying to sleep. Considered, at best, a necessary evil.
--The following "outline" is only designed to track the opening of the story and lay out the serious, emotional underpinning. It still needs to be injected with fun, humor, exciting action, etc. It comes to a tragic conclusion, but we aren't looking for 20 minutes of depressing tragedy. Obviously, it can be improved upon. Also, most of these scenes can be very quick.
I. Open with peasants struggling on foot up the hill toward the castle on the promontory. It is minutes from sunset.
A. Intro ROBBY (a peasant boy) and ROBBY'S MOM. She's hurrying her son along (with other peasants) so that they reach the safety of the castle walls before the advancing army of MARAUDERS.
1. They enter the castle. The gates are closed.
B. CAPTAIN of the Guards has all his archers at the ready on the castle battlements. We establish hideous stone gargoyle statues.
C. Outside the castle, just out of arrow range, the Marauding Army waits for sunset. It's a large force.
1. COLE, purely evil leader of the Marauders, is keeping his men in line. (Perhaps violently.)
2. One MARAUDER asks Cole why they wait: "What about the Gargoyles?"
a. Cole tells him that every castle in Scotland claims to have Gargoyles. Most are just statues. Soon it'll be dark. The archers won't be able to pick them off. They'll attack.
D. Darkness falls. Silently, the marauding horde climbs the hill. The Captain tells his men not to waste their arrows.
1. Marauders attack, perhaps with grappling hooks and ropes, their own archers, etc. Perhaps one grappling hook flies toward the largest of the stone gargoyles.
a. GOLIATH, the GARGOYLE-MASTER, suddenly comes to life, catching the hook. Play up the transformation big time. (Maybe as he awakens, he shatters a thin outer layer of stone, like shedding a new skin every night. Then again, maybe not.)
2. Goliath flies down upon the marauders, closely followed by many GARGOYLE WARRIORS. Fun action.
a. Maybe it looks for a moment as if Goliath has been dragged down by three or four marauders, but soon he's shrugged them off.
3. Prominent among the warriors is [DEMONA] a FEMALE GARGOYLE, that Goliath seems to favor.
4. Intro ELDER Gargoyle [HUDSON], who coaches from the battlements.
5. Also intro TRIO of "teen-age" Gargoyles [BROOKLYN, LEXINGTON, BROADWAY] and their GARGOYLE-DOG [BRONX]. One in particular [Lex] can't wait to be a gargoyle warrior himself.
a. The trio participates in action, but the way they fight brings in humor. More prankish. They make fools of enemy.
E. Gargoyles rout the Marauders who sound the retreat. The battle is over.
II. In throne room, intro the spoiled, beautiful, young QUEEN and her rich, foppish court.
A. Intro semi-dottering old WIZARD. Sweet, but largely ineffectual. Establish that his powers are on the wain. He needs to have his books of spells in front of him to perform any magic.
B. Captain enters with Goliath. They report the victory.
1. Though the Queen is polite on the surface, we can tell she took the victory for granted. We can tell she takes these two for granted. In fact, holds them in contempt.
a. Captain may be a bit of a pig. Tobacco-spitting kinda slob. Queen assumes Goliath's just like him.
b. Queen might also suggest that after this Marauder episode is done with, the Captain will be reporting to LORD FOPWORTH over here. Captain's clearly steamed.
2. Captain and Goliath exit, but before they're out of earshot, they hear the queen make snide, contemptuous comment about Goliath and Gargoyles.
C. Outside the throne room, the Captain and Goliath are joined by the old one [Hudson] and the female [Demona].
1. Captain is really burned up about the way Queen treats Goliath. Wants to know why Goliath puts up with it? Why he stays?
a. Female agrees.
b. Goliath responds on another level. He has the patience to wait for a better day. He sees a lot that's positive about humanity. And he's proud of his own race. Someday, things will get better. Besides, this is his ancestral home. The castle was built on Gargoyle Rookery. Gargoyles are instinctively and atavistically territorial beings. Where would he go?
c. Old Gargoyle is satisfied with answer. He and Goliath walk off.
d. We see that neither the Female nor the Captain find the situation satisfactory.
III. In open courtyard, where peasants are "camped out", we see Gargoyle dog and trio of young 'goyles wreaking havoc. A. They're waking people. Eating food, sloppily. Making a general mess. But not maliciously. They're just having a good time. (This should be a real fun, good time scene.)
1. It looks like fun to Robby the young peasant boy, and he moves to join them.
a. Robby's mom pulls him away. Gargoyles are dangerous and untrustworthy.
b. This really hurts the de facto leader of the trio [Lex]. He decides to live up to the gargoyle reputation and scare them.
c. He succeeds. Robby now believes Gargoyles are bad.
d. Goliath intervenes. Maybe even disciplines. (Though he's not humorless.) It's getting close to sunrise anyway.
2. Gargoyles all move to the battlements and strike a pose. They freeze into stone at daybreak. (We need to really play this up too.)
IV. Daytime in Cole's camp. Marauders are nursing their wounds.
A. Cole is visited by a mysterious shrouded figure who wants to make a deal. (Maybe to misdirect the audience, we will put this stranger in the voluminous robes of the Wizard.)
1. In exchange for a fair share of the profits, stranger promises to secure entry for Cole and his men.
a. And they won't have to worry about Goliath or his Gargoyles.
V. That night, Captain talks to Goliath, Female Gargoyle and Old One. (Perhaps in front of Queen, as well.)
A. Captain urges Goliath to take all his Gargoyles and chase Cole's army out of the county.
1. Goliath doesn't like the idea. He basically believes in DEFENSE, not OFFENSE.
2. Captain, with some support from Female, argues that the best Defense is a good Offense.
a. Besides, Goliath doesn't have to battle Cole's forces, he just has to put a good scare into them so they'll never come back.
3. Goliath reluctantly agrees, but he's not going to take all the gargoyles with him. He'll go alone.
4. Female takes him aside. It isn't safe. He could never fight off all of Cole's army alone. She's worried about him.
a. But Goliath has no intention of fighting. And he can be plenty scary enough, by himself. (Makes a scary gargoyle face to prove it.)
b. She says, at least, let me go with you for back-up.
c. He claims he needs her (his best warrior) to stay behind at the castle. (But it's clear that truthfully, he doesn't want to put her at needless risk.)
d. To make her feel better, he agrees to take Old One with him, in case something goes wrong. But the rest will maintain their nightly vigil.
5. Goliath and Old One take off after Marauders.
B. Cole gets word from the traitor: there's been a slight change in plans.
VI. Intercut between the following:
A. Goliath and Old Gargoyle follow the tracks of the Marauders by starlight.
1. Goliath is impressed by how fast the army has traveled in one day.
B. Another fun scene with the Trio and their dog, before they are chased off by frightened and annoyed humans.
1. They explore the bowels of the castle and find the ancient caverns of the Gargoyle rookery that the castle was built on.
C. The Captain is giving some odd orders to his night guards. Sending them away from weapons' room. Etc.
1. He is examining their bowstrings, etc.
VII. Goliath and Old Gargoyle catch up with "army", only to discover it is a small band of men running abreast without equipment.
A. Goliath realizes something's definitely wrong. He and the Old One head back to the castle. But it's almost dawn.
B. The sun comes up.
1. Goliath and Old One are frozen, en route back to castle.
2. Trio and Dog are frozen in bowels of castle.
3. Gargoyle warriors are frozen on parapets.
4. Archers take up their stations, unaware that their bows have been sabotaged.
5. The captain (i.e. the traitor) gives the signal for Cole's men to attack.
VIII. Cole and his army attack.
A. Each bowman gets off one shot, before their bowstrings snap. (The Captain had tampered with them.)
1. Soon the castle is overrun.
2. And it doesn't help that the Captain opens the gates as well. This is probably all we see. The rest [in brackets] is just for story-tracking purposes.
[ 3. The battle is short.
B. The castle is sacked.
1. Anything worth anything is taken by the marauders.
2. All the humans including the Queen and the Wizard and Robby and his mom are put in chains and dragged off.
C. Cole's men begin to destroy the stone Gargoyles with maces.
1. Captain tries to stop it. This wasn't part of the deal and isn't necessary anyway.
a. If Marauders leave territory with their slaves and booty, the gargoyles won't follow. It's not in their nature.
2. Cole isn't taking any chances. All the gargoyles are destroyed.
a. Ultimately, the Captain has no choice.]
IX. Fade to sunset. Goliath and Old One awaken and hightail it back to castle.
A. They arrive long after Cole has left. A small fire still burns here and there.
1. The castle has been sacked of all valuables.
2. There are no people.
3. And worst of all, the Gargoyles have all been destroyed, i.e. murdered.
a. They lie in stone rubble all around him. Partial pieces, etc.
b. There is no particular sign of the female; Goliath assumes that she is among the rubble. Big time FURY.
X. The trio and dog emerge from rookery caverns. (Maybe they were temporarily trapped there by damage done during the battle.) They are torn up by what they find.
A. Goliath and Old One are relieved that someone survived. But that doesn't abate their anger.
1. Together, the six gargoyles fly off to get their revenge.
XI. Cole's army has encamped for the night.
A. We see our Marauder taunt Robby and his mother outside in chains.
B. Inside his tent, Cole and the Captain discuss how much ransom they can get for the Queen.
1. They figure the wizard is probably worthless.
a. Wizard wishes he could just get his hands on his books of magic.
b. Cole taunts him with the books, burning them one by one. (Only one left.)
C. Outside the gargoyles attack. Lots of fun and action here.
1. Gargoyles are way out-numbered.
2. Old one is old. But he picks up a sword and holds his own.
3. Trio and Dog have little fighting experience.
a. Trio leader [Lex] makes use of some of the "scare" techniques that worked on the peasants in act one.
b. [Lex] saves Robby's mother from Marauder.
c. Robby saves him from one too.
4. Goliath is a holy terror. Wading into the hordes. Tossing them aside. Scaring the stuffing out of them.
D. Cole and Captain hear the noise and look outside.
1. Despite the overwhelming odds, the Gargoyles are winning.
2. Captain says they better get out now.
3. Cole dumps the last magic book and grabs the queen.
a. Wizard tries to stop him, but is pushed aside.
b. Cole says he'll never see the queen again.
c. Wizard assumes they're going to kill her.
4. Cole and Captain flee with Queen in tow.
5. Goliath sees them go. Follows alone.
E. Wizard stumbles out of tent with last magic book.
1. Battle is winding down.
a. Freed peasants and guards are now helping gargoyles.
b. Marauders retreat, scatter.
c. Queen is nowhere in sight.
2. Irrational Wizard blames gargoyles for causing the queen's death.
a. Using his spell book, he curses them. [See spell options below.]
XII. Goliath catches up with Captain and Cole.
A. Captain tries to reason with Goliath.
1. Tells him he never meant for Gargoyles to be destroyed.
2. Besides, what does Goliath owe the queen anyway. Now he can return to his rookery and be left in peace.
B. Goliath rejects Captain's excuses.
1. The Captain had taught him to go on offensive. "See what your lessons have wrought." Etc.
C. Goliath defeats (kills?) Cole and Captain.
1. Rescues grateful (and much changed and matured) Queen.
XIII. Goliath and Queen return too late.
A. Though it is still night, the other Gargoyles have been turned to stone.
B. Wizard feels like garbage when he finds out the truth.
1. But he can't undo the spell. Cole burned his other books.
C. Queen says that her people will not return to the cursed castle. They will start a new life/build a new castle elsewhere in the kingdom.
1. She sincerely invites Goliath to join them.
D. Goliath says no. He will return to the rookery.
E. Only gift that Wizard can offer is to cast the same spell on Goliath that he cast on the other gargoyles. (Or perhaps a slight variation.)
1. Goliath agrees to this.
XIV. The stone Gargoyles are perched on the abandoned castle walls by the humans. Robby waves goodbye.
A. One DAY, 1000 years later.
1. XAVIER is looking over his newly purchased ancient castle.
a. "Terrific," he says, "Now move it to Manhattan."
END OF PART ONE
[NOTE: DEMONA's story tracks as well. Like the Captain, she hates to see the way Goliath and the Gargoyles are treated by the spoiled Queen. She and the captain make a deal. They will convince Goliath to temporarily remove the Gargoyles from the castle. Cole will sack it and take away the humans as slaves, leaving the empty castle for Demona, Goliath and the rest of the Gargoyles.
Goliath screws up the plan by refusing to take all the Gargoyles away. Captain says, no problem. He'll sabotage his archers and the attack can take place during the day. He promises to protect the frozen Gargoyles.
Demona agrees, but just before dawn she gets nervous and flies away to hide.
She returns at some point (though Goliath won't see her). She sees the destroyed 'goyles and realizes that Goliath would never forgive that. She flies away to find a new life. Somehow, she will survive into the twentieth century, by which time, three factors will have turned her bitter and evil and eventually make her Goliath's worst enemy. (1) Her largely negative and criminal experiences since she last saw Goliath. (2) Goliath's inability to forgive her, (as much as he might wish he could). (3) Goliath's modern loyalty to humans, particularly Elisa Chavez.
In light of this, we should probably bring her back in the latter half of the telepic. She eventually teams up w/Xavier, raising the stakes, and tying the medieval stuff to the rest of the story. However, though we should plant the clues, we shouldn't give any real indication that she was part of the Captain/Cole conspiracy in Part One. All the revelations about her roll in the betrayal should wait until we see her again in 20th Century.]
For initial spell that Wizard casts upon Old One, Trio and Dog in anger...
1) Frozen in stone for 1000 years.
2) Frozen in stone 'til castle rests in the clouds.
3) Frozen in stone so long as this castle stands on this ground.
For spell Wizard casts upon Goliath, as the best he can do for him.
1) Same, or maybe the slight variation of 999 years, giving Goliath a headstart, and an ability to see if it's safe.
4) He will continue his endless cycle of sleeping as stone in day, guarding the castle and his friends at night until either 1), 2) or 3) occurs.
Advantages and Disadvantages to various choices:
The main question, is whether or not Goliath has been awake and alone every night for a thousand years. (Goliath option 4)). If he has, it would allow him to be at least passingly familiar that modern technology exists. I.e. when we get him to NYC and he sees an airplane, he won't think it's a dragon. Plus there's the tragedy of that much loneliness. And the possibility down the road of one or two flashback episodes (Goliath fights in WWII or something). Disadvantages include that it adds a layer of complication to the spell. And maybe we like the idea that he thinks an airplane is a dragon. (Although keep in mind, we can always play those beats with the other 'goyles.)
As to the other gargoyles, the main issue is when do you want them to wake up. If it's not until after the castle is installed at the top of the skyscraper, than option 3) doesn't work. 1000 years makes a nice round number, but is it a stiff coincidence that the 1000 years ends in NYC? Probably no more so than the Castle in the Clouds curse, though the latter may have more ambience.
And again, if we want Goliath awake BEFORE the castle arrives in NYC, i.e. on the boat, than we have to vary the spell with him to some degree or else it won't be possible.
Right now we're leaning toward Goliath Option 4) "the endless cycle" coupled w/ Option 2) "the castle in the clouds". There is some concern that the Wizard casting two spells may be awkward though. So it's still open for discussion.
Hey I'm Back, not that it really matters much.
Anyway,ok i hav eto ramble about something and i hope it won't affend you or anyone who reads this.
The rumor of a live action movie has been around. (don't get annoyed i haven't said anything yet) I think that great,great that the story is being (excuse the word) resurected.(not that is was ever gone in the eyes of the fans)But does it have to be a live action movie. I just think that kind of ruins the story we (as the fans) have come to love.unless you were going to have the same cast for the parts as you did the voices. Sound is a big memory trigger and for all the people who watched it before want it to be like they knew it. I personally hate it when a story continues however it does and the voices or character change. I don't know maybe it is just me. I just think that there would be nothing wrong with an animated one, I mean the show was animated to begin with. I also really feel strongly on the voice thing. Voices should stay the same.I think that a live action might reck the story. Like (and forgive me for using this example some people can't stand it)the Harry Potter thing, brilliant books that the world fell in love with ,but the movie is going tobe live and i think that recks it. We no longer can imagine what the character are like because we will be told. I don't know, am i making any sense? Please tell me what you think, what are your views on this, what do you hope for the movie, what do you hope doesn't happen, what do you want. And please tell me if what i'm saying makes sense, please rip it apart and criteac it.
Thank you so much for listening.
I'd love to do an animated movie that CONTINUES the story. But that's not being presented as an option.
So instead, I believe, they are planning a Live-Action movie that ADAPTS the story (at least to some degree). Sometimes this works. (Superman the Motion Picture). Sometimes it doesn't. (The Shadow.) So in theory, I have no objections, and in fact am rooting for the picture, for both its creative and commercial success -- if for no other reason than it increases the odds of the animated tv series coming back.
As to the actors, well, I would hope that they cast Keith as Goliath, Marina as Demona, Salli as Elisa, Jeff as Brooklyn, etc. Assuming all those characters are still in the movie script. Of course, I have no control over that, but I can dream...
am i correct in these assumptions of what beasts DNA was used to mutate the following characters:
Wolf - wolf
Talon - panther, bat, e. eel
Claw - tiger, bat, e. eel
Fang - couger?, bat, e.eel
Maggie the Cat - lion, bat, e. eel
Yeah, that sounds right. Cougar or Mountain Lion for Fang.
Why did Xanatos find he Grimorum Arcanorum?
Did Dmona help him finding the book?
Why? Do you mean how?
And, no, Demona wasn't involved in finding the book, just in interpreting it once it was acquired.
Hi Greg! Me again, Mel. Celestial...this time with a request. Do you mind posting your answers(to my questions) to me through email@example.com? Can't find the light I seek 'cause your answer Archive is so confusing to me! Please!!! I still need to know 'bout the basics in animation of which my best bud and I intend to take this year. We've been dreamin' to animate our own cartoon for years(oh yeah, we've done some major sketches on the story and the characters and I think that we're ready to take it to the screen), so help us in making our dreams a reality? Honestly, your cartoon(The GARGOYLES!!! BIG CHEERS!!!) is the first to inspire me into animation(yeah, I do watch other cartoons, but I like yours the best 'till today!) and my buddy insisted me, or rather convinced me, into the idea. So will ya? Like, tell me about 2D animation and the works? GArgs question shall come later......Thanks! =)
No. I'm sorry. As I've said over and over before, if I started personally responding to you, how could I justify NOT personally responding to everyone. That would (a) create an overwhelming amount of work for me as people's questions would start to repeat even more than they do now and (b) destroy the effectiveness of this community forum as no one would get to share the answers.
Navigating the archive is incredibly simple, really. Even for a computer illiterate guy such as myself. Go to the "Questions answered archive" link and CLICK. Then choose one of many archives (such as "Animation", a topic you seem interested in) and CLICK on that. Or just ask your question (try and be more specific than "Tell me about Animation", a topic I could spend months on and still not give you everything you need, as I'm not an animator) then check out "Greg's Latest Responses" periodically. Or just click on the archive "RESPONSES 2001 - 2 (Feb)" for answers to almost any question I answered this month. See, Mel, it's not that hard or that confusing. No more excuses.
Scientists say that if humans survive for a couple thousand more years we could evolve to be taller, our fingers longer, and our brains larger. We could sort of resemble the alien from the episode 'Sentinels". What would gargoyles evolve to become or look like thousands of years from now (thinking chronologically and evolutionary) ?
just wondering about the Gargoyle videos for sale on the net
on the Amazon site ...
1)did you have anything to do with them?
2)do you know anything about them ..if so do all the videos
cover all the episodes(but squashed down of course)
also do you know if they are any good?
thanks - Jess
1. I'm not sure what's for sale, so I can't answer whether I had anything to do with them specifically. But if it's the videos that Disney released from the show's first season then, yes, I was a co-producer and supervising story editor of those episodes.
2. As far as I know, the only videos that Disney has released are a cut down version of the five part pilot. And four more videos that contain the eight remaining episodes of the first season. If that's what we're talking about, I think those shows are VERY good. (But of course, I'm biased.)
Great art! How about a stained glass pattern book of various gargoyles? No pattern book is available and people are looking for one! You probably already have the connections and definately have the reputation! If you have a pattern already, I'd love to put it into glass and let you use the photos/graphics. Let me know, please. Thanks, Kelly firstname.lastname@example.org
No personal e-mail responses. Sorry.
And I'm not sure what you mean by patterns? Model sheets?
And I think you overestimate my "connections and.. reputation".
Is there a way to obtain detailed pictures of castle wyvern. I have plans on building an actual castle and I would like to use the castle as a guide line for the designers. I would greatly appreatiate it. Its such a beautyful castle to have. If you want to e-mail me directly you can reach me at email@example.com
No direct e-mail responses. Sorry.
And I don't have that info anyway.
My advise: watch the show, do your best and fill in the rest using your imagination.
IS IT MY IMAGINATION or have I suddenly gotten a TON of requests for personal e-mail responses? Like a new common thread.
CITY OF STONE PART 2
What can I say about the first few harrowing minutes that you haven't already pointed out? I knew Xanatos would be able to pull them out of the drop of course. And you're right, his lines here are great.
I like Brooklyn's back at the Clock Tower as well, simply for the dramatic irony.
Ahhh, so THAT'S why Broadway didn't have a single line in the CITY OF STONE multi-parter! (seriously, I noticed that little fact on one of my re-viewings) As with Xanatos' chopper pilot being Fox, the "blind man" who helps clue in the gargoyles being Jeffrey worked better for me--personalized things more. And in this case, cut down on the "coincidence factor". On top of that, Jeffery's just one heck of a great character. I love how he remains pretty aware that the gargoyles are a little more in touch with what's going on, but doesn't press it too hard. Also, one of my famous "between character" beats, after Brooklyn blurts out a question:
Jeffrey: (amused)"Your friend is impatient."
Hudson: "The curse of youth."
I don't know why, but I like that little exchange. It just seems fitting.
Brooklyn's hatred of Demona comes off as strong as ever, and I like how Goliath handles that particular problem.
Demona and the slaughter...one of the most chilling and memorable moments in GARGOYLES. It sure goes farther than most other American animated series I'm familar with. The gal with her arms shot off "LESS HARSH?" Yeah. Sure. Whatever.
PERSON 1: "Um, instead of killing this one, don't you think you could just mutilate her body instead?"
PERSON 2: (evil villain voice) "YEAH, heh heh heh heh heh heh--*cough*ahem* Whatever you say."
Man I would have loved being privy to some of these S&P conversations.
I did wonder why Macbeth wore the Hunter's mask, but it wasn't an extremely pressing issue for me. Mac had his reasons--he ALWAYS has his reasons. I did like the new "eye-less" design. It also seemed to have a pretty clear metallic sheen...or I could be wrong.
Bodhe's switch from "big man" to "yes man" in the flashback I had noticed, but only dimly. I knew he was definitely shifting tactics to get what he thought was the best outcome...and Macbeth always listens to him. That scene on the hill is always difficult for me to watch. The voice acting and animation of the characters are quite good, and man I always feel frustrated for Macbeth.
You are right about Emma Samms. She didn't leave too much of an impression on me until Part 4, but that's a ways off yet.
Duncan, the @$$hole--that's how I'll always remember him from this. Of course he gets a bit of his own from Gillcomgain in that one scene--one of my favs in this episode I might add. Then Duncan comes up with the whole "He fooled me completely" routine for Macbeth--who buys it.
I knew Demona's "Never again" line was in reference to the Captain's betrayal, and I always liked that touch. I also like when Demona says "I make no promises" in reference to allying with a human, and the Weird Sisters smile.
Gillcomgain didn't need to crush the rose to make me feel okay about hating him--I was cheerfully doing it myself already.
Macbeth fights rather disappointingly in his battle with Gil, I must admit, but he did seem to have the upper hand when Gruoch came out and made the perfect hostage.
I suppose the two "Lovers almost fall over edge" scenes may have been a bit much for some, but they were different enough that it came across more as "parallel"(sp?) than "repeat".
Ah, the unmasking, and the revelation. Demona didn't remember scarring him. I wonder if this little revelation, an action of her's she didn't even remember creating her most hated adversary, had any impact on her. Did she think he was lying, or mistaken?
I don't know why, but I kind of like the Hunter's death more than most other "falling-deaths". Maybe it's because Demona THWACKED him down with her tail, or just that Jim Cummings gives such a great death yell (seriously, I really like it).
Demona thanks a human. A small thing, but of great importance considering what she will become. Still, she seems a bit glad that she doesn't owe Macbeth, seeing that he was the one first in her debt.
The second wedding, boy, everything about it is happier than the first one...except Duncan up in the tower. Nice, chilling little scene there between father and son.
Though the "talking, crumbling triplet statues" is pretty chilling in its own right. I liked that Goliath got mad enough to consider killing Demona--just seemed more natural.
I love Xanatos saving Owen during the fight with Demona--the bad guy saves his side kick. Not something you see very often.
I, unfortunately, did not get the idea that shutting off the broadcast would reverse the spell. Maybe this was because I didn't expect it to be that easy to reverse ANY spell (can we say "castle rises above the clouds"?). Also, since the flashback story didn't seem completely finished, I thought there was more of the multi-parter to go. Anyway, now Xanatos' line, "That should do it, eh Owen? Terrific" makes more sense to me. I had thought that maybe Xanatos had momentarily forgotten that Owen was stone, but it just didn't quite fit.
I DID however, get the idea that Demona and Macbeth feel each other's pain right from where it was introduced. The fight, while good, really just seemed like added candy around that juicy revelation. I was ready to learn the background about the connection.
Like Todd, one of my favorite things about the ending, where the hero and villain agree to team up, is that the villain suggests the alliance. "Do you want vengence, or a solution?" Xanatos remains so pragmatic here it's astounding. And for the record, I personally do like the fade-out on the handshake.
Waiting for Part 3
I don't think Demona thought Gil was lying OR mistaken. She figured she did scratch him at some point. She just didn't care. It was of no significance.
Thanks for the comments. Keep 'em coming.
(The Guppi) asked:
---What does the night sky look like, from Avalon?
---I don't understand the question. Like the night sky.
I think that (The Guppi) meant what about the constellations? From normal earth one can find out the latitude (or is it longitude?) of one's position if one's learned how. Even if one hasn't learned one could probably easily understand if he's in the Northern or the Southern hemisphere.
So do the constellations of Avalon correspond to those of "our" Earth? What does the night sky look like from Avalon? :-)
Like the night sky from a unique point of view.
Some time ago, I heard a fellow "Gargoyles" fan say that he considered Matt something of a hypocrite in that, while he was setting out to expose the Illuminati to the world, he was willingly joining in the efforts to keep the gargoyles a secret and hiding them, even after he became the head of the Gargoyle Task Force - and also condemned Elisa for keeping the gargoyles a secret, especially from Captain Chavez. I didn't agree with that person, feeling that there was a difference between exposing a ruthless and machiavellian secret society that's meddling in everybody's lives and exposing a group of extremely rare beings who have to hide from the world because most humans consider them monsters and would hunt them down if they knew about them, but I felt vaguely bothered by it, and thought that I'd ask you what your thoughts on the matter were.
My reasoning is similar to yours, but I can also live with the notion that Matt is in fact being a bit of a hypocrite -- for a good cause.
As a writer, I LIKE the stress that dilemma will eventually cause. Human beings are complex. We contain multitudes.
What is your general views on clipshows? I know when you worked on Starship Troopers, they did a few to make up for the slow production and episodes airing in the wrong order?
No, that's not what happened. On Starship, they did a few clipshows as replacements -- to save money so that they wouldn't have to produce the expensive last three episodes (that ended the war) -- allowing them to ultimately deliver 40 "episodes" as required by their contract.
Occassionally, a clip-show can be mildly entertaining. The Simpsons have done a few good ones. Friends did one that I kinda liked. But generally, I dislike them. And I particularly didn't care for the Starship clipshows. But I'm biased, as those last three episodes (that didn't get made because of them) were mine.
Seriously, how'd you get noticed by the world of your high-qualitied animations, A-Z starting from college? What inspired you to start the career as a cartoon animator? Do prefer 2D or 3D? What gave you the inspirations to start a cartoon????????
O.K. First off, I'm NOT an animator. I'm a writer. And largely, at the time, I followed the work and the opportunities. I got a job in animation and followed that course until it eventually led me to create Gargoyles. But it was in that order, not the other way around.
As for 2D and 3D, I have no absolute preference. I like good animation, no matter the format. I like well-told stories. Some subject matter works better in 2D, some in 3D. And I like doing shows where the content and the format are working together as opposed to at odds.
Given what you learned from STARSHIP TROOPERS and MAX STEEL -- if you were told that you could do GARGOYLES again but only if it could be done in 3D Animation would you? Do you think GARGOYLES could even work in 3D?
(I know it's a hypothetical, but this was the main selling point that got VOLTRON back on the air after 10 years as VOLTRON: THE THIRD DIMENSION for 26 episodes.)
BTW for the person who asked what program MAX STEEL is rendered in -- I know Netter Digital (now defunct) used Lightwave, and that Foundation Imaging used Lightwave for season one (as well as for the work they did on STARSHIP TROOPERS). I presume its still being used for the current season but not sure. Lightwave's major competitor is a program called Maya.
Sorry if I wandered too far off topic, Greg, but since I knew this came up thought I'd answer it for the archives.
Yes, I think Gargoyles could work in 3-D. And if that was my only option for bringing it back, I'd jump at the chance.
If I had multiple options, however, I'd use the animation style that best suited the subject matter of the series.
in "Awakenings, part 1" when Tom first comes up to the trio and they have that talk about calling each other friend (by the way, this is one of my fav scenes in the series) and then the gargs scare the humans and everything, what was Tom thinking? i know he really liked the gargs and wanted to be their friends but if these "monsters" than turned around and purposely frightned my mother, i'd be pretty upset. i don't know Tom's background but i'm sure that he's had a rough life. he's a refugee, so he has lost his home, we never see his father so i assume given the time period that he is dead and now these creatures are threatening his mom! Tom is a smart kid not to follow so many of his role models, including his mother, into believing that the gargs are demons, etc. and even after this he still calls the gargs his friends. what are your thoughts of young Tom and this incident?
I think Tom saw the whole thing. Saw that the gargs were insulted and hurt. Saw that they were fooling around and then got punished for it. Tom loves his Mom, but he thought she was wrong.
what other spells besides the sleep counter spell were on the page of the Grimorum that Hakon burned? if you have this planned out, i'll be surprised so i really don't expect a big answer!
I didn't have anything too specific in mind.
You'd mentioned in the archive that gargoyles may be capable of having twins, yet it would be extremely, extremely rare. My question is, if a gargoyle did have twins, would they be born from the same egg, or would two eggs be laid?
It's so rare, I hate to answer this. But I'd say one egg.
But let me emphasize that I don't see this happening naturally more than once every few hundred years.
Are the wyrd sisters the mythological
are they classical moon goddesses selene, luna and pheobe or just named after them?
if they are these figures, do they have different forms? (personality traits?) for different names?
Fates, norns, furies, moon goddesses - yes.
Sirens - No.
Horae? What are those again?
And they have many different forms. We've seen at least four on the show (plus multiple costume changes).
Do you think our technology will progress further than the magic of Oberon's children? When will Oberon's children reach the limitations of their magic? Would any of them possibly decide to live amongst us mortals and begin thinking scientifically, like an outcast fae, that would prefer sceince over sorcery?
1. Apples and oranges.
2. Who says they will?
3. To some extent, Titania has done this already.
Why did you decide to change Tom's name from Robby to it's present form?
I didn't. One of our writers, probably Michael Reaves changed the name. I never knew why, but it seemed petty to insist on changing it back.
In your latest beat sheet for the series opener, I see that the idea of the Trio being young and inexperienced was still prominant. I understand where you came from in eventually changing that, but when I first watched AWAKENING I was distraught by the Trio. Every gargoyle we saw was a full-fledged warrior. Where _were_ the inexperienced kids? The elderly? It seemed slightly out-of-sync that the Trio were such able-bodied fighters. Was the Viking attack a real threat or wasn't it?
That is just my original impression of the events of the initial Viking attack. Later on, when the gang counterattacks the camp, I can understand their participation.
I guess the battle just came off too light-heartedly when we glimped the Trio, starkly contrasting with characters like Goliath's and Demona's scenes. A real sense of danger is added by Hakon drawing Goliath's blood, boulders crashing into stone, refugees huddling about, the Captain barking orders, etc. But then we have the Trio gallavanting through the battle like it's, as Brooklyn puts it, just "fun."
I think their innocense could have been portrayed in a way that didn't detract from the realism that was so effectively installed earlier on.
This isn't intended to come off as pure criticism. AWAKENINGS was brilliant, especially Part 1. But I thought I'd mention my first impressions.
Another little thing I noticed from the beat sheet is that the flashback originally began showing the refugees entering the castle, with the Marauders/Vikings on their tail, and then both parties camp for the day till dusk. This struck me in two ways: First, it gave me a better grip of realism. Enemy attackers camping right outside the castle, both sides waiting for the battle to begin... that could've added a cool flavor to things, and immerse us more into the medieval setting. Secondly, showing the refugees herded into the castle beforehand would've better clarified the events surrounding the battle. In the final product, we jump straight into the fight and, as a result, a reason is not even necessarily needed. The Captain's off-hand comment about refugees comes off as superfluous. I remember shrugging. 'That's nice' I thought. We were in the battle. Who needed backstory? Of course, the refugees were an important component, for the sake of Tom and his mother, and to better portray the environment of 10th century Scotland. If we'd seen the prologue to the battle, that's included in the beat sheet, I think it would've been much more effective.
I guess what this comes down to in the end is my earlier message I sent to you, in which I asked about trimming episodes with Last Time and Next Time segments. You defended, saying they were useful for tightening the episodes, but I put forth, as shown here, that some valuable stuff can be lost. Of course, it's doubtful you would've wanted or could've gotten a 6th Part to AWAKENINGS, but don't you think you could use ANY extra time you have to better flesh things out?
The trio are new to this warrior thing at the time of the Viking attack. Brooklyn takes it more seriously, and unfortunately we don't see much with Lex (not enough time in the episode). Broadway enjoys the battle and doesn't take it as seriously as he should. We did this on purpose in order to contrast his response in the second battle at the Viking encampment.
I don't think the realism was damaged (though, of course, you're entitled to your opinion). I just think we were showing a variety of responses to the stimuli at hand.
And we did show the elderly -- in the person of Hudson. We couldn't show everyone, so he stood in for all of his generation that still survived. The only group we didn't show at all were kids (Bronx's age). It was felt that it would just be too brutal to establish and show these kids -- only to have them smashed later.
As for the prologue, well, I liked it too. But talk about superfluous...
I mean, what would you have been willing to cut from the episode in exchange for adding that prologue. It's not like I can say, "Hey, we want this prologue. Let's animate an additional three minutes here." Ultimately we have an absolute time limit to every episode. A footage limit (based on budget concerns) that we are allowed to send overseas to be animated. Something had to go. And I think the Captain's line covers the necessary info. It might not be elegant. But it's servicable.
But don't start on the Previously and Next Time segments. They don't count. What I'm talking about is how much we were allowed to ANIMATE at our budget. That was limited to about twenty-two minutes and thirty seconds. Putting entire new sequences in would require us to speed up the pacing of everything else. Using thirty seconds for a PREVIOUSLY segment allows us to tighten pacing and cut out bad frames of animation once something is animated. Because, the truth is, nothing ever came back to us PERFECT. NOTHING.
So AGAIN, had I cut all those previously and next time segments you would not have gotten any extra scenes. You just would have had the scenes you saw with some bad animation and pacing left in. And if there's still bad animation and pacing in there -- well, trust me, we used those thirty seconds to cut out the worst of it.
We clear now?
Would the Loch Ness Monsters ever be featured in Dark Ages or Timedancer?
A question about rookery generations...
1. If the Wyvern massacre had not happened, would the Trio normally have been considered rookery parents to the eggs that would have hatched in 998? Or was the generation of the first rookery parents the one immediately older than them? (Goliath, Demona, ColdTrio, etc)
In short are rookery parents 40 or 60 years older than their first rookery children?
2. What if one of the gargoyles had mated really young (teen pregnancy) and contributed an egg by the time she was biologically 15? Ten years later would she *not* be considered a rookery mother even though she had biologically contributed an egg? Or would she be treated as an exception among her generation?
3. For that matter would Iago be considered a rookery father to the eggs simply because of his generation, even though he was mateless and hadn't contributed an egg himself? Or not?
2. Gargoyle females aren't generally fertile by age 30 (biological age 15). This decision, frankly, was probably S&P driven originally, but I'll stick with it now. Garg females generally lay three eggs in a lifetime at age 50, 70 and 90 (biological age 25, 35 and 45). This further separates them from human biology, which I kinda like. And keep in mind, sex drive isn't limited to fertile cycles.
3. First off, did I ever say Iago was mateless? But to answer your question, Iago would likely have been viewed as a Rookery Father (or at least Rookery Uncle -- though there would be no such terminology) UNLESS he made a personal point of not accepting that responsibility.
i'd just like to make a comment about gargoyles kissing. i think that stroking the brow ridges or hair is an extremely intelligent and important things in the garg series. first of all, it gives them some culture very different from humans and second, given that many gargs have beaks kissing becomes kinda hard to do. i'm surprised that Broadway and Angela kiss but i understand Greg's explanation that this is because of human influences on these two. good job, Greg, these subtle differences between humans and gargs really gives depth to the show!
i have a question about gargoyle customs. you've said that Opheila is Gabriel's second in command and for a time, Demona was Goliath's second, is it common among gargs to choose their mate as second? if so, isn't that unfair to the other gargs hoping to become second, or am i thinking too much like a human?
You're generally thinking too much like a human.
The bigger issue over time is age. A second should be in a position to be groomed to take over for his leader, either in case of an emergency (as when Brooklyn took over for Goliath during the World Tour) or in the case of succession, as when the older Hudson stepped down in favor of the younger Goliath.
Had things gone differently at Wyvern, eventually either Demona would have stepped down to allow a new second to be chosen from the younger generation (most likely Brooklyn) OR Goliath would have stepped aside to allow Demona to lead and chose a new younger Second (again, most likely Brooklyn).
It's largely a meritocracy otherwise. Hudson chose Goliath as his second based on a myriad of positive qualities but primarily integrity, intelligence, natural leadership abilities and a genuine ferocity in battle.
Goliath in turn selected Demona for the same qualities. *He was just mistaken about the integrity.*
As for Avalon, the situation is a bit different, as all the gargs there are of the same generation. Originally Gabriel was chosen as leader and one of his many rookery-siblings Angela was chosen as his second. When Angela left, Gabriel did select his mate as his second, at least for the time being. But you can bet Ophelia was qualified -- look how she performed even when wounded in Avalon Part Three -- or he would not have chosen her. Does nepotism play a part. Possibly. But I'd think that the qualities necessary would have to be even more obvious to avoid charges of nepotism.
In London, Una is the leader of the clan. Her second, whom we have not yet met, is of a younger generation and generally runs things at their more rural (or at least suburban) estate.
In Japan, Kai was the leader. Yama, of a younger generation, was his second. After Yama's banishment, Yama's mate Sora was probably chosen as Second (though don't hold me to that). Again Sora's chosen for her attributes and (relative) youth. Someday -- short of a catastrophe taking place -- she will lead the clan in Kai's place.
In Guatemala, Zafiro is the leader. His second is not his mate Obsidiana, but Turquesa, Jade's mate. They are all of the same generation, but they are also the only gargs alive down there at the moment. (Not counting the eggs.)