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Follow up to your question about Shari and Claw in my Issue 3-5 review:
Why I thought Shari and Claw should have left together is that the last time we see them in Issue 4, Claw is slumped over Shari's shoulder. Her reference is "And since Claw here isn't much of a storyteller, I'll go." The fact she is visually carrying Claw implies an intenet to take him as visual proof of what has happened, but she'll be the one to provide the words, especially given her emphasis on Claw in the panel's dialogue besides just supporting him physically. It certaintly wasn't required, I suppose, but somehow I had expected this to be what Shari would do.
Well... Claw isn't exactly a subtle visual aid...
I really enjoyed issue #6 even with the missing page.
Angela telling Colstone her assumption about his biological children seemed a bit forward, but that's part of who Angela is. Did she have any knowledge about who Coldstone was before she met him?
Coldstone's immediate reaction to the news of his son, as well as his later reasonings for attacking Goliath and company, seem to show some genuine care and concern specifically towards his biological child. That surprised me. When Goliath first meets Angela he expresses that gargoyle children of the clan and not of individuals. Angela feels the biological relationship carries more weight; probably influenced by the humans who raised her. Coldstone wasn't raised by humans, but by Gargoyles. (I'm assuming that, but it seems a safe assumption. Is it?) Why doesn't Coldstone have a similar view to that of Goliath? Did many others in the Wyvern clan share Coldstone and Angela's feelings or is it a small minority? Would/Could such feelings be openly expressed (in the Wyvern clan)?
Thanks for all the time you put into us fans. It's a really unique and special thing. Good luck with Bad Guys! I can't wait!
Presumably, Angela had by this time in the World Tour heard many tales of Manhattan, so may have known about Coldstone.
I'm not sure I agree with your characterization of Coldstone and his reaction to Angela's statements about Gabriel.
I got Gargoyles Issue #6 yesterday and just pre-ordered the collection of the first six issues.
It was a nice breather issue, well somewhat, they still got into a fight.
Thailog as a Roman having grapes fed to him, someone is getting a bit megalomanic :D
The world travelling trio ending up in a big cooking pot just to find out they are in an icy climate.
The Monks where interesting, I hope we see them again.
And did these monks belong to Shambhala or is the monastery in another place?
This particular monastery is not in Shambahla.
My review/comments/thoughts on #6- "Reunion"
I'm not going to go into the errors-it's already been talked about and I know it's being fixed. I did notice the page 12 error right away.
Art is nice-Gordon Purcell did a good job and I wouldn't mind seeing him working on the book again. He's especially good with the human characters. The only complaint I have is that the pencil lines are a little too unfinished and choppy in some panels. It distracted me a few times and interrupted my train of thought from the story.
And hats off to Dustin Evans for his coloring work-great color palette and he did a good job with the lighting and shadows.
Good story, it fits in nicely with previous episodes and comic issues. A lot of people have said that the story feels too rushed. I don't think it feels rushed so much as we're only seeing just a small snippet of what happened.
I guess the first two pages are there to assure the audience all is well with Goliath and Maggie. But it feels a little awkward to me. I don't understand why Angela is in such a good mood-sure nobody died, but they were attacked and essentially driven from their home-as Brooklyn says, that's not really cause for celebration. (Also, how did they find out about Maggie?)
Shari and Thailog- What the heck is going on there? :P. Lol, I love the toga! Acting out the part of a Roman Emperor-Hilarious.
heh, and I thought the pool in Arizona was weird!
I like Elisa's line about Hawaii and her aggravated stance on the next page. It's pretty clear that by now Elisa is pretty fed up with the World Tour-and it seems like this isn't one of her favorite adventures. That girl deserves a tropical vacation.
This place must be COLD if Goliath, Angela, and even Bronx feel the need to dress warmly. It's cool seeing Goliath wearing something other than just his loincloth, and I love Bronx's doggie vest :)
Yetis, lol. I thought we were going to get to see real ones ;)
Master Dawa is an interesting character who has some good lines-I hope we see more of him...But how did he and Sangpo get to that cave before Goliath and company lol?
I like Goliath's concern for Elisa in the cold-reminiscent of "Eye of the Storm"
YES! Jalapena rears its head yet again ;) Who's saying it though? I'm guessing it was Elisa. (I don't think Angela has said it in the series yet)
I like Coldstone's reaction to Angela's telling him about Gabriel. I can't help wondering if there is some interest in the biological part, considering what he/she/they have become.
I'm disappointed in Coldstone/Othello here though. I thought his actions were too violent and unnecessary-particularly with grabbing Elisa by the neck. I understand his reasons, but I don't understand why he couldn't just have a long talk with them about his plight and why he can't go with them. (It's not as if they can force him anyway).
I guess Coldstone and the monks shipped the travellers off to Shambahla. I had no idea this was a mythical place until people in the comment room brought it up. I love learning about new mythical places though, and I've since looked it up.
I also wonder along with thailog what will come of this adventure. And I'm ashamed to say that I'm curious to know if Shari took a peek under his toga after he turned to stone ;).
I don't think we've heard from the Scarab Corp. since "Awakenings." Nice little touch.
Xanatos working with Coldsteel. I'm not surprised. After all, if he built those robots just for Goliath, Othello, and Desdemona's benefit, he wouldn't even have built a robot for Iago. I'm guessing this has something to do with Xanatos' Illumniati assignment.
Overall, a good story which leaves a lot more questions in my mind. I like how the past and present stories intermingle nicely, and it all fits together rather well. Really looking forward to number 7! Great job, Greg! And keep em' coming :D
A little time has passed, enough to have learned about Maggie's condition.
"Driven from their home"? I don't see that, really. Freed from being trapped in their home, I think.
I'm not sure Elisa was truly fed up; all of us grouse -- it's human nature.
Dawa and Sangpo will reappear.
And they didn't get to the cave before Goliath and company. Not sure where you got that...?
Elisa said Jalapeña.
The travelers can't force Coldstone to go with them, but if they see it as their quest, they can refuse to depart without him.
RECAP was also from Scarab.
How did the Avalon travellers in issue 6 get from the wash basin of the monastery to Shambhalla? Is there suppose to be another unpublished part in the adventure that the ending is teasing about?
Like several others, I'm willing to forgive the printing errors on Issue 6. In fact, the only one I even noticed was Page 12, and even then just the bottom panel.
And Coldstone's decision didn't surprise me. He'd already made a choice when he left the Manhattan Clan in the first place. This one wasn't all that different.
And so, to you and to all of the Comic Clan...keep up the good work.
AAAAHHHH! Coldsteel's back in town.
Coldstone and Coldfire can't be far behind. I often wondered why Xanatos would create such a powerful body for "Iago" but I realized, Remembered in this issue that Xanatos may not be directly working against Goliath, that doesn't make him friendly. (My mind flashed back to "Our enemies conspire together for control of this body")
On to the comic...I think that that was THE weirdest Avalonian arrival I have ever seen. (Though I'm sure that Tom prolly went through a few odd ones in his quest for Goliath over the centuries)
Sangpo wouldn't know a yeti if it bit him on the butt :) Master Dawa was a very amusing monk, and mentally I picked out a set of voice actors I like to "play" them in my head.
The red and white eyes told me it was Coldstone. (That and the fact that I realized that this was the "lost" Marvel Comics story)
The misprinted scene was distracting for me, but I was able to descern from the dialog what was supposed to be happening. I hope that you post that address for the replacement comic or something.
"Biological Son" that's what did it. I think that Coldstone might have been willing, and certainly wanted to come with G and the Avalon crew, but the thought of putting his children in danger...it was just too much for him. So he posed as Iago.
Shambala!!! I know that here in the west we call it Shangri-la! Did anything interesting happen there, or did Elisa take them straight back to Avalon.
Thailog's amusment amuses me. That Shari girl is scary, she knows just how to get his goat right before he turns to stone. On a side note, for some reason he didn't see his Toga as part of him so it didn't go stone? He'll have to get a new one at sunset, and they can't be cheap.
Guess that's all for now, at least on Reunion. Can't wait for Bad Guys. (Mid November?)
You asked if anything interesting happened in Shambahla...?
I like to think so.
I never even noticed the errors in Issue #6. However, I know we all want as great quality as we can get in the book.
I appreciate EVERYTHIGN you do for the fandom, and just to have Issue #6 (Number SIX yet!) in my hands is wonderful enough! I can take an error or three. With issues comming out, I can live again! (Bad pun, I know.)
From the very bottom of my fandom heart, here is a fond THANK YOU for all you have done for us this past year!
You're very welcome.
I'd just like to move the conversation beyond the production errors now. What's done is done.
Thanks for informing us about #6. I do not blame you in the slightest, nor does it ruin my enjoyment of the story. It's pretty interesting to finally have "The Lost Marvel Tale". In all seriousness, I managed to obtain all of Marvel Comics Gargoyles.
Comments and Questions:
1. Angela's opening line reminds me of Hudson's line from Avalon Part 1. Not sure if that was the intent, but nice.
2. Probably answered my own question, but Dawa also known as The Zen Master, correct?
3. Like some of the other comments, I liked Dawa's line "If that doesn't work, I'll translate later".
4. I had a feeling, Coldstone was going to find out about the rookery eggs when I heard about this story. It was still worth reading, especially since we have his relation to Gabe as offical canon now.
5. Aside from the scenes taking place in the present day, are there any other differences between the story when it was first written to the finished product (Any scenes dropped)?
Good job on the story. Also, Gordon's artwork was pretty good as well.
1. I didn't have that in my conscious mind, but it's all swirling around in my head, so who knows?
2. He's "Master Dawa". I don't know that I'd call him "The Zen Master".
3. Thanks. He's fun to write.
5. Yes. To fit the Thailog/Shari and Xanatos/Coldsteel stuff in, I had to cut some business with a couple mountain climbers, plus a little Twilight Zone kicker at the end.
In the sixth and latest issue of the new gargoyles comic the same page is used twice. This page is the one where Goliath and Coldstone meet up in the cave and Coldstone throws Goliath over his shoulder. The first time we see this page the dialogue does not seem to correspond with the picture, was this a mistake? Will you be reprinting the comic with the correct pages and dialogue? If not will we be able to see the page online? Should questions about the comic be left at AskGreg or will there be a place to do this at Creature Comics? I have thoroughly enjoyed reading the new adventures of the gargoyles and cannot wait to start reading Bad Guys. I read somewhere that Bad Guys might become a new animated series, is this true?
By the time you posted this, I had already responded to all these questions. I'd once again like to ask EVERYONE to read responses/archives/faqs and even check things out at the Station 8 comment room before posting here. I'm trying to avoid creating a huge backlog here.
As to Bad Guys becoming a new animated series... no, it's not true. Where did you read this?
I just read your apology for Gargoyles #6. Yes, I think it was the weakest comic thus far, and yes, I'm glad to know it's not unnoticed by SLG and yourself. But that being said, you seemed really down about it, and I wanted to give you at least one fan's response to your apology. I really appreciate your integrity,(Nice to know you stand by Renard's words!)and I won't pretend that the issue was as well done as the others. That being said, it's in a very very large part of you that we have an issue #6. Or an issue #1, or anything after Hunter's Moon Part Three. You mention not expecting our unlimited patience, but you need to know, you already had mine. Ten years from the last good episode of Gargoyles, you came through in spades. You did the impossible, and you brought Gargoyles back to me, and all the Garg fans out there. Thanks to your hard work, I finally got to see Goliath and Elisa proclaim their love for each other. A moment that brought me closer to tears then anything else in years. Thanks to you I've seen a little more of what would happen to the Manhattan Clan after finally reclaiming their old home, and forcing an alliance of sorts with Xanatos. I saw more of the Illuminati, and perhaps the best Thailog story to date. And soon, thanks to you, I'll see Bad Guys, and quite possibly the other Gargoyles spin offs that I honestly never thought would happen after the show's cancellation. As I write this I see that a lot of that is, in fact, thanks to YOUR "unlimited patience" as well as your refusal to give in and let Gargoyles die. Believe me, if you never write another Gargoyles story again, I'll consider these six issues a worthy return on my patience. Please know that all you have done for Gargoyles and it's fans is far from unnoticed. And while I can only speak for myself, I think all Gargoyles fans would agree me. So what? You stumbled a little along the way bringing us something we had all but given up hope of ever seeing. YOUR "unlimited patience" has shown us the impossible is possible. Why would we give you anything short of our own in return?
Just to be clear, I'm apologizing for production errors. When you say the issue was not "as well done as the others" or "the weakest comic thus far", that's not an opinion I share, though of course you're entitled to yours.
Otherwise, thanks for your kind words.
Questions about issue #6
1. In this issue, I noticed that Shari, #9, had black around her eyes. I scanned through the previous issues and noticed she didn't have this before. Was this an artistic error or is it part of her look?
2. On the next to last page, I noticed that Thailog turned to stone, but his clothing did not. Was this deliberate or an artistic error?
1. Neither. It's artistic interpretation.
2. Deliberate. A choice I made at the script stage.
My review of issue #6
Where do I begin? This is obviously an immediate follow-up to the previous issue, which I enjoy. I enjoyed seeing Thailog in yet another change of clothes. It seemed quite plausible for the Society to be aware of the travelers' trips around the world and put together that Avalon was sending them places. I found the entry point for the travelers to be quite . . entertaining. It was also nice for humans to be treating gargoyles with respect, even if that was an order. It was nice to see Coldstone's reaction to seeing Angela and Coldstone's natural curiosity about how he was found. It's nice to know that Angela recognizes Coldstone as Gabriel's hatchling. At this point, it's nice follow-up to High Noon that Coldstone does not want to rejoin his clan out of fear of causing them injury. The way that he convinces them that the evil one has taken over is quite good. It's interesting the way that Coldstone brought them down. Then it's nice to learn where they really were as well as nice to add another mythic place to the gargoyle's universe. Also, it's very nice for Thailog to be outsmarted for once, showing that he can be. The ending with Coldsteel was quite interesting and also quite trusting of David Xanatos.
Overall, I really enjoyed this story. When I picked up comic book, I inquired about being the only one in my area who ordered Gargoyles comics. I had a pleasant surprise to find there was one other. Next time I go to the comic book store, I plan on leaving contact information so this other person can contact me.
My thoughts/review on #6.
It's unfortunate that this one was plagued with production errors (especially the wrong pictures on one page), and I hope that future issues won't have that problem. But you've already covered that part, so I won't say more about it.
The flashback story felt a little hurried, in order to get it into one issue, but was still interesting. Master Dawa made a good new character; I especially liked his verbal wit with such lines as "Their souls are fortunate that their bodies are such lousy shots" and "Listen with your heart, Sangpo... if that doesn't work, I'll translate later."
The revelation that Iago hadn't taken over Coldstone's body, but that Coldstone pretended that he had to prevent Goliath from bringing him back to the clan (and thus potentially endangering the other gargoyles when Iago *did* succeed in taking over Coldstone again), was also well-handled.
And I was amused by the opening of the flashback, with the skiff arriving in a laundry pot, since it reminded me of a few discussions that I'd seen in Gargoyles forums as to how small a body of water Avalon could transport one to.
While the "present-day" part of the story wasn't advanced much, we still got some enjoyable tidbits. It seems that Thailog has finally met his match in Shari, something which makes this new character all the more interesting. And I'm definitely looking forward to seeing how things go between Xanatos and Coldsteel. (It seems that his motives for providing robotic bodies for the other two souls inside Coldstone weren't as altruistic as he claimed. Though, knowing Xanatos, that shouldn't be such a surprise.)
At any rate, a good story; I just wish that there hadn't been as many production errors. And I hope that we don't see any (or none of this magnitude) in future issues.
Just had to end the post with another mention of the errors, even though you already mentioned them -- and as you said I already covered them -- and you wrote " I won't say more about it." at the top of the post.
You guys are going to make Cranky Greg return.
I thought I'd follow up on another questioner's comment, on the huge problem with issue 6. If you've seen a print copy of it (not sure if you get one gratis or not), pages 12 and 16 are identical, picture-wise: only the dialogue and captions differ. And considering the dialogue for page 12, it's obvious that this was not intentional. I realize it's not your department, but I figured you'd know who to inform. I just hope SLG hasn't started printing the trade paperback yet, with that mistake still in it...
I should probably ask a question, since that's what this board is for... But I don't have any questions (at least no sane ones) at the moment. But thank you so much for whatever backdoor dealings you engaged in to get Gargoyles stories going again! I'm absolutely loving the series, especially with the offhand comment of adding another specie-of-legend to the mix with the Yeti... The mythology you've created is what made me fall in love with Gargoyles originally, and I'm very very glad to see you haven't lost your touch in the meantime. Thanks again!
My friend, Dan, collects thousands upon thousands of comics and he has seen his share of mistakes, but never to the magnitude of the production error that occurred on page 12 of Gargoyles #6.
I know you're the talent when it comes to the Gargoyles comic and seemingly have little to no control over the production of it once it's in SLG's hands, but is there anything that can be done to prevent the continuation of mistakes? Is shopping around for a different publisher an option at this point?
4 mistakes in 6 issues is 2/3 mistakes. If my TV only worked 1/3 of the time, I would return it and never buy that brand of TV again.
--Shopping around for a different publisher is neither an option nor a desire on my part.
--Your friend Dan may have thousands upon thousands of comics, but I've been in and around this business for twenty-four years, and I've seen WAY worse errors... which is not meant to forgive or even explain why we had so many in this issue... but I could do without the hyperbole, thanks, as well as the completely bogus math.
--As for what can be done, we've put some safety measures in place to try to insure that this sort of thing never happens again.
--Finally, I do appreciate your patience, and I like to think that the virtues of the issue (let alone the series as a whole) still outweigh the errors. But at the end of the day, if you feel like we're too defective to put up with, then I'll understand and watch you go with much regret.
Okay, let me get this out of the way. I thought this was the weakest issue so far. I understand you've been wanting to use this script for a while, and I'm sure the pay-off will be worth it, but this one just didn't quite add up for me.
First off, there seems to be a problem with page twelve. Goliath is attacking Coldstone while the monks are speaking. Is this a mistake? Because on the next page, Goliath is talking to Coldstone calmly, and the panel is repeated later.
I also did not care for the coloring. I did like Purcell's pencils, but the Evans' coloring just did not do it justice. Sorry.
Okay, with that out of the way... I liked a lot. I enjoyed finally seeing the Coldstone in the Himalayas story. Although I am wondering why Avalon sent them there, as they did not accomplish much. The monks were fun.
Thailog really amused me, though. I see he likes playing Roman Emperor. Which one? Not Caligula I hope? ;) What I also liked was, after seeing Thailog play Xanatos, Sevarius, Goliath, Demona, Macbeth, and everyone. He outsmarted everyone, we finally see Shari being able to almost make him flinch. She's playing him, it's obvious, all while she feeds him grapes and pours him wine.
Speaking of Shari. Okay, I know she's very high in the pyramid, but how does she know about the travelers' visit to Tibet? I know you won't answer, but I'm beginning to think she's the most ominous of the new characters you've introduced. Quincy may outrank her, but there's just something about Shari that is frightening.
I enjoyed the ending. Xanatos and Coldsteel. *Que ominous music* Well, who said Xanatos was a good guy? I like this, I often wondered why he gave Iago a powerful body like that, now we know. He obviously gained something... Goliath is not going to like this.
Sorry if I was hard on this issue, I did enjoy it. But, if I don't criticize when I need to, I can't be honest when I praise.
I find it interesting that you only noticed that the panel is repeated as opposed to the entire page.
Anyway, the issue is problematic from a production stand point, as I've already noted. But I'm glad you found things to like in it.
Hi, Greg! Glad to finally get the issue 6, and to finally see something we fans have known of for a while, but never got the details. So that's what Coldsteel was doing all this time. And good to see another place from legend exists in the Gargoyles universe, I just wish there was more space and time to see more. Ah well, each medium has its pros and cons. There's a number of other things I liked about this issue, that can be summed up with one word: characters. For instance, I found the demand from Thailog to Shari for a story, and her feeding him grapes, rather funny because she outranks him. I think she's just mollifying him for now. I am glad that Angela recognizes the differences about parental concerns about biological relationships, but still barrels ahead with her guess about Gabriel's relationship to Coldstone. And his follow-up comment, quoting the "biological" but still saying son, which was most important. I kind of wonder how much Desdemona overheard and if some of that pause was her taking it in as well. Reminded once again, when Coldstone mentions his concern about children with the image of Angela, how important the clan's eggs really were to the clan. I'm like many on the site and curious about the revelation at the end. What could Xanatos have to do with Coldsteel, and will the later be cooperative?
Hang tight. You're just an issue away from learning more about your last question.
My issue #6 Review.
Thanks for another great issue, Greg.
STORY - First off, kudos on the story. Having Coldstone show up was a great idea, and well executed. I liked the expression on his/her/its' face upon learning about Gabriel, and I didn't see the twist coming. I had thought his emotions there HAD made him actually turn evil. Good plot crunch, that.
For a minute there, I actually thought he was going to kill Elisa. Brutal. But that's 'Coldsteel' for you.
I was also curious as to his (Coldstone's) exact connection with the natives, and what their relationship was, not to mention their treatment of him afterwards, but maybe someday, we'll learn more in a future issue.
Thailog was as kickass as ever.
It seems to me that Brooklyn was still a little depressed, seeing Angela and Broadway like that. He made the excuse about 'Thailog still out'. Is that the real reason he walked away, or was he lying to them? Either way, I have to say, Poor Guy.
Once again, story threads were left hanging for future issues, and I can't wait to see where they go over time. I recall hearing somewhere that this issue was based on a script you'd written for the old Marvel Comics series. Is that true?
art - Not as perfect as Issue #5 was, but better then #3 and #4 were. Decently drawn, and the coloring works primo. Nicely done. Hats off to Stephanie Lostimolo and Dustin Evans.
Bottom Line? Nice, sensible, one-shot, with, as usual, hints of future plotlines contained within, and great characterization. Thailog continues to reign highly as one of my favorite villians, and having a flashback to a previously unseen Avalon tale was clever. Hats off to an excellent story. The art, though not the greatest. was still pleasing to the eyes. If awards could be presented for artwork, Evans and Lostimolo would deserve to win big.
And you, Greg Weisman, would, once again, be #1 in 'Best Writer'.
Until #7. :D
Yes, most of this issue was written originally for the Marvel book (which I was scheduled to take over) before it folded along with all of Marvel's Disney licenses. I adapted it to fit our current continuity. Glad you liked it.
Okay. I'm embarrassed. As many of you already know, there are a number of production errors in issue #6. I have already received what I believe is a heartfelt apology from SLG, and I'm personally passing this apology on to you fans... and adding one of my own.
Here, as far as I can tell, is the rundown of the errors in Gargoyles #6:
PAGE ONE. The logo and title ("Gargoyles Clan-Building Chapter Six: Reunion") have once again been left off the book.
PAGE TWELVE. Although the correct lettering overlay was used, the art is incorrect -- and is in fact a reprint of page 16.
PAGE TWENTY-THREE. An uncorrected version of the page with the wrong "SCARAB" logo was used.
BACK COVER. The add for the trade paperback leaves Nir Paniry's name off, which is frankly inexcusable. Also Stephanie is still listed as doing tones on Bad Guys, but Karine did her own tones.
ETCHED IN STONE. In addition, the blurb for issue #7 lists Dustin Evans as that upcoming issue's colorist, but the colors for #7 are now being done by Robby Bevard. Dustin was colorist at the time I wrote that Etched in Stone, but since then the situation has changed. So that's not really an error... just consider this an update.
Guys, believe me, I am well aware how unprofessional all this makes us look. I recognize that the fans are NOT expected to have unlimited patience with all our screw-ups -- be they production errors or late deliveries. I've been told that SLG is going to reprint the issue and that exchanges will be possible. In the meantime, I'm looking for a way to post the correct pages (which exist, I swear) somewhere practical on the internet so you guys can at least see what you've missed. And of course, everything WILL be correct in the Trade Paperback (though that's hardly the inducement to buy that I was looking for).
All I can say is that we will try to do better. Truly. I know that must sound hollow, but I'll now be looking over galleys personally. Honestly, if ALL the mistakes on the book were mine, I'd feel a LOT better. And as always, I'm ready to take full responsibility for any creative stuff you don't like. That is on me.
Finally, for the record, Angela's costume on the cover is NOT an error but a creative choice made by Greg Guler (i.e. the man who designed BOTH versions of her costume). He was aware that the "scene" he was depicting was from a flashback but made the creative decision to go with the new costume on the cover. Note that covers are not canon. Covers are the FINAL ADVERTISEMENT/INDUCEMENT to get people to buy the book. Greg felt that the new costume would make for a better inducement. We discussed it, and I agreed.
Again, I'm so sorry about all this.
October 10th, 2007