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1. Given that the Third Race apparently knows about King Arthur's burial on Avalon (the Weird Sisters asked "Where's the sleeping king?" during their battle with the Magus in "Avalon, Part 3"), what is the significance of Oberon's referring to Titania as his "Once and Future Queen" in "Ill Met By Moonlight?"
2. On this question http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?qid=1414 Todd Jensen mentioned a little bit about Merlin's life according to legend, including his encounter with King Vortigern. An eighteenth-century forger named William Henry Ireland wrote a play about Vortigern's life that he falsely attributed to William Shakespeare, on the grounds that Vortigern's story was so tragic, Shakespeare ought to have written about it. Given that King Arthur appears to have a prominent role in the Gargoyles Universe, and given also your love of Shakespeare, I'm especially curious to learn what role Vortigern has in the Gargoyles Universe.
By the way, I'm even more eager to learn what Shakespeare's story is in the Gargoyles Universe, than what Titania whispered to Fox.
1. You're assuming Oberon knows the title of the book "Once and Future King"?
2. No Spoilers.
Hey, Greg! I haven't been on the site in a while. It was my pleasure to briefly meet you at San Francisco's last (to date) Wonder Con back in 2010.
I also wanted to say that I started reading about Arthurian lore due to your work, as well as Fables. Here's my question: Is The Gargoyles' Universe Peredur Fab Ragnal an Arthurian Survivor?
I had remembered you had stated that nothing had changed from the Arthurian Survivor contest results and you had only stated that Mr. Duval was The Illuminati's founder, not The Illuminati's Number One, as Peredur turned out to have likely been. (I'm thinking Mr. Duval is still Sir Percival, and Peredur is something else.)
This has been asked and answered to the extent that I intend to answer at this time. See the archives...
In the gargs universe, was Excalibur an ordinary sword that had something "done" to it to make it special? Or was it created to be Excalibur from its beginning? Thank you! :-)
I've been a fan since 1994. Now I'm 24 and still a huge fan. My question is this:
At any time were/are you going to introduce Guinevere or Lancelot into King Arthur's past? Were you saving them for the future? Like the King Arthur spinoff? I know you have the whole "Bastard" character down, yet were you ever going to bring Mordred to light or did you decide that it'd be considered more complicated?
I had/have plans for all of the above.
Heya Greg! I have a quick question RE a fairly obscure adaption of the Arthurian mythos and your knowledge there-of.
Have you ever seen the episode of the '80s Twilight Zone series called "The Last Defender of Camelot"? If you haven't, to give an explanation without spoiling too much, it involves Lancelot, Morgan La Fay, Merlin and a modern boy named Tom *cough cough*. I was a little surprised to see many of the key themes that show up in Gargoyles, such as immortality, and how power and good intentions can lead one astray.
If you haven't seen it, and it wasn't an influence, I'd recommend checking it out if you should get the chance. Despite a certain cheestasticness and pretty bad special effects, there's some really solid and interesting writing.
It just struck me as an odd coincidence how the tone reminded me so much of Gargoyles at times (in the best possible way. It brought a smile to my face.) Though working from the same source material, not to mention pretty universal themes, some similarities would be inevitable. I guess I'm just curious as to whether it was kismet, or a case of one work having an influence, however small, on the other.
I wish you all the best and am waiting with bated breath for Young Justice's premiere!
I have seen the episode... or at least a chunk of it... but only recently. It didn't influence Gargoyles, though I'm sure both had common influences.
I've seriously become reobssed after finding this sight thank you so much for doing all you have for not leting gargoyles die. Now that I've complemented you how bout anouther question. What role will the Lady of the Lake play in the Pendragon spinoff? And how did know to go from london to newyork to find Auther
so far in advance?
I'm not going to get into the specifics of the Lady's role at this time. And, perhaps you're putting the cart before the horse with your second question. She wasn't looking for Arthur.
Mr. Weisman, I was recently re-watching Excalibur (the bloody 1981 Arthurian adaptation), and was inspired to ask two questions of you:
1. When Quinevere is accused by Sir Gawain (whom I noticed was a young Liam Neeson) and Arthur is unable to act as her champion because the law demands he be her judge, he tells Quinevere (of her and Lancelot) "You are the two people I love most in this world." Having recently read Clan-Building Vol. 2, I was struck by the fact that this is what Peredur said to Duval and Blanchefleur, his wife and his best friend. Was that an intentional parallel, or is it just a coincidence?
2. The Excalibur film is noted for being one of the few Arthurian adaptations that didn't flinch from presenting the more violent and sexual aspects of the stories, which many other adaptations have glossed over or eliminated. I remember the copy my Father taped, and how he'd (roughly) attempted to edit the more graphic scenes (something my little brothers and I found amusing at the time). In his defense, we were quite young. But the question of how you'd have dealt with some of these aspects can into my mind. Obviously, even with the comic, you'd have to be more circumspect than an R-rated film, but even then, how much of, say Lancelot and Quinevere's infidelity would you have shown. Another example would be how Merlin arranged for Uther to be with Igraine, in return for their child (which, when I re-watched the film, couldn't help but remind me of Merlin's father and the events of The Gathering episodes). At the far end of the scale, some of the legend cycles have it that Arthur pulled a Pharaoh, ordering the death of the first-born in an attempt to eliminate a young Mordred, an act that, even in context of the time he lived in, makes him difficult to redeem. How much of these elements would have dealt with?
P.S.-In a previous post, I mistakely used "who's" when I should have used "whose." My apologies.
1. It was an intentional reference to the Arthur/Guinevere/Lancelot relationship. Not necessarily a parallel. And not necessarily a specific reference to Excalibur, since I've seen those sentiments in many other Arthurian adaptations, including "The Once and Future King" and the musical "Camelot" which is based upon it.
2. Everything would have been dealt with. Whether "off-screen" or "on" is the question.
Nine years ago (has it been that long?) there was an Arthurian survivors contest here at "Ask Greg". With the recent "Stone of Destiny" storyline in which Percival seems to have been split into Duval and Peredur, I'm wondering if what change have occurred on the list of Arthurian survivors.
Just to refresh your memory (and for those who don't remember it at all), here's the list as of nine years ago:
1. King Arthur Pendragon. Slept under a spell in the Hollow Hill.
2. Merlin. Son of Oberon by a mortal woman. Imprisoned in the Crystal Cave.
3. The Lady of the Lake. One of the Oberati.
4. Sir Percival. The Fisher King. Mr. Duval. Founder of the Illuminati. Spends a lot of time in Castle Carbonek, a sort of mini-traveling-Avalon, where time passes differently. Also uses the Holy Grail to maintain his youth, though at a very real physical cost, due to his, shall we say, sins.
5. Lady Blanchefleur. Percival's wife. Queen of Castle Carbonek. She lives there and uses the Grail. The only cost being her estrangement from Percival.
6. Morgana le Fay. A changling in the old-fashioned sense.
7. Nimue. A sorceress with connections to Merlin, the Oberati and Morgana. (Think about it.)
8. The Green Knight. An Oberati.
So what, if anything, has changed in the past decade? Are there still only eight survivors? If we replace "Percival" with "Peredur" and take out the reference to Mr Duval is the list still accurate?
(By the way, I loved both Gargoyles: Clan-Building and Bad Guys: Redemption, and I'm looking forward to more in the future!)
I thought I'd give you a report on spreading the word.
Since King Arthur features in the first half of "Clan-Building: Volume Two", I gave a brief report on the book on an Arthurian mailing list I subscribe to, "Renditions of Camelot", focusing on the elements involving him. (It helped that we'd read Roger Lancelyn Green earlier this year, and a lot of the list members had enjoyed him. I told them about your fondness for Green, and even mentioned how you included a specific reference to him in the book:
"Peredur fab Ragnal" - Green makes Percival the son of Gawain and Ragnell.
* SPOILERS END *
I also mentioned Arthur's consultation of Malory, and the Stone's "Sword in the Stone" role (though I left the revelation of Percival/Peredur's involvement a surprise, saying only that the Illuminati leadership turns out to have links to King Arthur).
I also briefly mentioned the medieval elements of #10 through #12, since I thought they might interest Arthurian buffs, even if Arthur wasn't involved here. And I made a similar report to a forum for the Arthurian role-playing game "King Arthur Pendragon".
I don't know how many people will buy the book based on my reviews, but spreading the word certainly doesn't hurt.
No, it HELPS!!!
Thank you, I appreciate those efforts tremendously.
I'm in college and my British Literature seminar class is over Arthurian legends and we can write on anything involving the legends and themes and I decided to write about the Arthurian themes in Gargoyles as I am a huge fan-so I guess my question is do you have any input that I might be able to use?
Thanks so much!
ANY input? Um... probably? I wish you had been more specific. Cuz I'm not inclined to write a small dissertation for you here. (Especially since you posted this back in April, so I'm going to assume that by late June (when I'm answering) your class is over. ) But I would have been happy to answer specific questions. If you still have any, and you're not in a hurry, feel free to post specific questions on the subject.
I was recently rereading Roger Lancelyn Green's retelling of the Arthurian cycle (it was the January 2009 book for an Arthurian book club that I recently joined), and found this passage at the end of the section on the Quest for the Holy Grail:
"But when the last battle had been fought and the realm of Logres was no more, Percivale's kingdom made still a little light in the darkness of a Britain conquered and laid waste by the barbarians." (p. 248 of the old Puffin Books edition I bought as a boy).
Was this passage the inspiration (or at least, *an* inspiration) for your idea of Percival/Duval founding the Illuminati?
Questions concerning Avalon Parts 1 - 3:
1) Will we see the adventures of Tom in any of the Gargoyles Spinoffs or main comic?
2) Will there be any repercussions for waking up King Arthur "early" and will we see those repercussions in the comics? If so, which comic?
3) Who's face is represented on the front of the Avalon boats?
4) Who's face is represented at the watery gateway to Avalon, where Magus turned the Weird Sisters into owls?
5) Do all 36 Avalon Gargoyles survive the Archmage's assault?
6) Any chance the magic in the sleeping hill will one day revive Magus or is he dead and gone forever?
1. Yes, eventually.
2. Yes. Pendragon, among others.
3. Not revealing that at this time.
6. Who am I to kill hope? Hope lives eternal. The Magus, on the other hand, is dead.
While the notion of mists surrounding the skiff on its journeys from and to Avalon during the World Tour was something that the story needed anyway, to give the proper sense of mystery about travelling to Oberon's isle and back again, I've sometimes wondered whether that concept was also intended as a visual reference to the title of Marion Zimmer Bradley's "The Mists of Avalon". Do you know if the name of her book was an influence there (obviously not the book itself, since Bradley's Avalon is very different from the Avalon of "Gargoyles")?
I"ve never read Bradley's book. It was given to me as a gift, but I've been reluctant to read yet another modern treatment of the legend, so as not to color my own. Of course, I do know the title, so it's theoretically possible it influenced me, but I think it's much more likely that the choice was a pragmatic necessity combined with a cool moody choice.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
Arthur is crowned King of Britain.
Hakon the Viking lays siege to Castle Wyvern, but is driven away by the Wyvern Clan of gargoyles. The Captain of the Guard invites Goliath and Demona to the celebratory feast. Princess Katharine is most seriously displeased. She demotes the Captain, declaring that from now on he will report to the Magus, who later prepares a spell to deal with the gargoyle clan, should they get out of hand. Seeing that Goliath will continue to tolerate human prejudice, Demona and the Captain find an excuse to temporarily lure the gargoyles away, so that the castle can be sacked and the humans taken away by Hakon, leaving Castle Wyvern to the gargoyles once more.
Michaelmas. Constantine III is so furious he initiates a plan to destroy all the gargoyles in Scotland.
Macbeth is made High King of Scotland. He swears on the Stone of Destiny, to protect Scotland and serve her people. Macbeth names Demona and publicly rewards her and her gargoyles, welcoming them as his allies into his home and castle. Demona becomes his primary advisor. Thorfinn is rewarded with basic autonomy over Orkney, in practice if not in name.
Xanatos inspects his castle atop the Eyrie Building. He wants everything to be perfect before he attempts to wake the gargoyles.
I asked a question about Pendragon before, but didn't really get into why I asked it. Although I have a lifelong love of mythology, I'd never been interested in Arthurian legends before. I had read The Sword and the Stone in high school, but not the rest of T.H. White's book. However, since getting into Gargoyles I've become interested in Arthurian legend and have read a lot, mostly online. I recently managed to borrow a copy of R.L. Green's book and liked it. I agree with you that his version of Gawain is a very likable character. Making him Percival's father was a strange idea to me, though. I'm currently working my way through the rest of The Once And Future King.
Looking through the archives, it seems like you might not be aware of how close some of your interpretations come to very early pre-Malory versions of the Arthurian legends. For example, according to what I have read, Excalibur was originally considered to be the Sword in the Stone, and they were not considered two separate swords until the 1230s. Also, your choice to make Morgan le Fay a changeling is particularly fitting because although she is usually described as Arthur's sister, she is also often an inhabitant of Avalon and in her first appearance, she is one of the noble ladies of Avalon or even its queen.
Man, I'm forgetting my actual question. I do have one. Um...
Oh yeah. A long time ago, somebody (probably Todd) asked you about the lions and other creatures in Malory. Have you heard of the story of Owain (Yvain/Uwain/Owein) and the Lion? I don't know whether Malory included that story, but a version of it is in R.L. Green's book, although Green gives the adventure to Percival instead of Owain.
I've read both Green and Mallory, and know both versions of the story.
I don't believe these questions have been asked before.
1. How does Duval remember King Arthur's reign, what is his current (as of 1996) opinion of King Arthur and his reign?
2. As of Issue #4 of the SLG Comic, does Duval know that King Arthur has been awakened?
1. I'm not answering this at this time.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
Arthur encounters Griff and the Stone of Destiny at Westminster Abbey. The Stone transports Arthur and Griff to Manhattan, where Macbeth is waiting. Macbeth is temporarily forced to flee when Hudson and the Trio intervene. The four Manhattan gargoyles join forces with Arthur and Griff to help Arthur find Excalibur. In Central Park, they encounter the Lady of the Lake, who gives them another clue to the sword's whereabouts. But Macbeth uses a Will-o-the-Wisp to listen in. He becomes determined to find Excalibur first. The quest takes them all to the Brooklyn Botanical Gardens, where Macbeth accidentally brings a giant stone dragon to life by removing a copy of Excalibur from its grip. Arthur destroys the dragon and finds the true Excalibur inside the stone beast. Macbeth swears allegiance to Arthur. Just before sunrise, Arthur knights Griff. And after the sun sets, Arthur and Griff depart on a new quest - to find Merlin. Meanwhile, Goliath, Elisa, Angela and Bronx also depart Avalon and are drawn to Norway by the power of Odin, who appears to them in the form of an old man and tries to get Goliath to trade the Eye of Odin for a coat to keep Elisa warm. Elisa and Goliath agree to pass on his offer. But Elisa is on the verge of hypothermia. She takes shelter with local farmer Erik Sturluson and his son Gunther.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
In Manhattan, Macbeth and his flunkies, Banquo and Fleance, prepare for the Harmonic Convergence. And on Avalon, King Arthur decides to leave in order to find Excalibur. He arrives in London.
I was hesitant about making this comment for a while, since I was afraid that it might be read as an idea. But I finally decided (especially since it only uses information directly from "A Lighthouse in the Sea of Time") that it was probably safe.
You mentioned in your ramble on "A Lighthouse in the Sea of Time" that the significance of the inscription on the chest containing Merlin's Scrolls, "The seeker of knowledge has nothing to fear; the destroyer everything" was that the chest was magically warded so that anybody intending to destroy the Scrolls in the manner of Hakon burning pages from the Grimorium Arcanorum would apparently have met an unpleasant fate (and that it was a good thing for Morwood-Smythe and Duane that they were seekers of knowledge). But I found myself seeing another significance to those words beside that.
Macbeth's purpose in stealing the Scrolls was to use the magic that he believed was in them for his own purposes, apparently as part of his hunt for Demona. Goliath clearly feared that others would be after Merlin's magic for the same reason (such as Xanatos - and indeed, we've seen at least two other magic-workers in the series who would have no doubt been eager to exploit the spells that Merlin's Scrolls were thought to contain for their own dark ends). I believe that you could term anyone seeking to put the Scrolls to such use a "destroyer".
But it turns out that the Scrolls are of no value to a "destroyer" in that sense, but only to the "seeker of knowledge" - for what they contain is not Merlin's spells but his memoirs about his life and his tutoring the young King Arthur. Such information seemed useless to Macbeth, but a "seeker of knowledge" would indeed have found them invaluable - an eye-witness account of King Arthur's times, written by Merlin himself! So indeed, in a different sense than you mentioned in the ramble, the search for the Scrolls of Merlin would only be rewarding to the "seeker of knowledge" and not to the "destroyer".
I like that analysis... and it fits in with plans I have. Stay tuned...
I've got a few oppinions/questions about Oberon. Many fans seem to veiw him as a 'bad guy'. I really don't see him as such. Yeah, he's immature,(the kind of person you don't know wether to laugh at or stranggle at times) but he's a KING. In his mind, he's supposed to get what he wants. For the most part, I often dissagree with his judgement, but I try to look at it from his point of veiw too.
For example, his punishments for the Banshee and Puck (expecialy for Puck) made many fans unhappy with him. I agree, they were harsh.... very harsh. However, I have to remember his feelings of superiority as a lord and the way HE sees it.
I interpreted his POV when punishing the Banshee and Puck to think himself pretty fair. Girl yells a lot, make her shut up. Servant doesn't want to come back to Avalon, fine, banish him. Servant wants to play mortal, fine, take away his powers. Heck, maybe he was event thinking ahead. If he ever desides to change his mind, a harsh punishment might have been better. He could always chalk it it up to being merciful or to have been 'teaching them a lesson'. Or, the subject is so releaved about having the punishment lifted they don't take the time to wonder WHY Oberon changed his mind. Don't look a gift horse in the mouth, if you will. That way, Oberon saves face. I supose I should get to the questions now.
1. During the series, will Oberon be given the chance to mature?
2. How does the poor guy keep order in his kingdom? When almost all you subjects are magical, that must be tough. Makes you wonder how he finds time to sleep...
3. You've said Oberon loves his children, does that include Merlin?
1. I like to think all our characters evolve, some for the better, some for the worse.
2. There's no one method. But being Joe Most-Powerful helps a lot.
3. Life is complicated.
Generally, I'd like to say I agree with much of your analysis of the character.
Why did Macbeth want the Scrolls of Merlin? That was never answered in the episode Lighthouse in a Sea of Time.
Yes, it was, actually. He thought they'd contain powerful magical spells... useful (potentially) in his conflict with/hunt for Demona.
Macbeth said to King Arthur that he was too long a king to serve another. Does this mean that he's never served or worked for anyone post-1057?
No, it doesn't necessarily mean that.
I was rewatching 'Lighthouses in the Sea of Time' and noticed that down in the dig-site the archaeologists (Lydia and Arthur, right?) passed a harp that seemed to play music and shine at their passing. Later I noticed that on the seal of the Scrolls of Merlin there was a symbol that seemed to be in the shape of this harp. So...
1. Was the harp pictured on the seal, or was it just a fluke?
2. What *was* this harp?
3. Who put the harp down there in the cavern?
4. Did this harp belong to Merlin?
Thanks you for any reply. I'm really enjoying rewatching all these episodes on DVD (episodes aired in New Zealand with several scenes cut to fit them into a smaller time period, so it's been great seeing all the extra snippets!)
1. Been a while since I've seen the episode myself, but if you're describing it correctly, it was clearly not a fluke.
2. More of a lyre actually, as I recall.
Was Merlin's conception/birth intentional on the part of Oberon? What I mean is did Oberon deliberately seek out to have a son who was half mortal in the case of Merlin?
I mostly think he was hot for Merlin's mom.
I thought that I'd better rephrase my Questing Beast comment/question, since I realized that I didn't state it too carefully. What my query was about, properly, was about the Beast still being alive in the present-day of the Gargoyles Universe. As I'd mentioned before, I'd assumed until you mentioned it that it wasn't, since it wasn't on the Arthurian Survivors list, so I'd assumed that it was deceased, like Lancelot, Guinevere, Gawain, Mordred, etc.
So is the Questing Beast's absence from the Arthurian Survivors list simply a case of it not counting as an "Arthurian character" in the same way as Arthur, Merlin, Percival, Blanchefleur, etc. - being rather an animal (though certainly a very remarkable animal)? That's what I'm assuming, but I just wanted to be certain about that.
I refuse to make you certain of anything in this life. I can't handle the responsibility.
1-You've previously stated that in your version of Arthurian Lore that Morgana was really a member of the third race who for some reason was actually traded for the real child Duke Gorlois and Igraine and raised by them. So given the strange circumstances surrounding your version of Morgana, would she still be antagonistic towards the reawakened Arthur Pendragon, if by chance they met, considering that the people that Uther Pendragon wronged weren't her real biological parents and that Arthur has been gone and asleep on Avalon for more than a thousand years or would she stilll bear a grudge towards him even though Arthur's knights and kingdom are all but vanished.
2-On a related note to the first question why was Nimue, the person who supposedly trapped Merlin, made the actual biological child of Gorlois and Igraine when there wasn't any connection between her or Gorlois and Igraine in the actual legends. Was this whole plot twist set up in order to explain why Morgana had supernatural powers while Arthur was an ordinary mortal?
1. The notion that adoptive relationships are less potent then biological makes no sense to me. But other than making that general statement, I'm not really going to answer your question, as it looks forward to Arthur and Morgana's next encounter, which I hope to someday show you ... most likely in comic book form.
2. It's WAY more complicated than that. But the cop out (and yet true) answer is that sometimes a story point just feels right. (cf. Puck is Owen. Owen is Puck.)
I have to admit, when this first aired, I was more than a little surprised to see Arthur showing up again (or at least, so soon after AVALON). Likewise with Griff. And it was even more surprising that you guys teamed them up like this. Surprising and delightful.
I was also pleased to see the return of Macbeth (for the last time in the regular series). I have to admit, at first I was a little disappointed that Macbeth was the antagonist, simply because after CITY OF STONE and SANCTUARY he had become such a tragic and sympathetic figure, you wanted to root FOR him, not against him. Also, I'm not sure, but I think a lot more of Macbeth's reverance for Arthur could have been shown. In fact, when he and Arthur are crossing swords (well, sword and mace) he says, "You will kneel to me" in an almost spiteful way. Of course, in the end, Mac shows himself to actually be a bigger man than Arthur when it comes to admiting defeat--he does so instantly, unlike Arthur who had to be coached (and I had never thought about the similarity to those who had challenged Arthur's legitimacy back in the legends).
Anyway, back to London. I agree with your reasonings for not giving Arthur a sword (though, personally, I would have preferred a double-bladed axe to a mace, but that's just me). I just love Arthur's surprise at a locked church--says a lot about how times have changed.
BTW, you said that one of Arthur's trips was to the Guggenheim in NYC--New York City, yes? I must say, I find that a bit surprising. Since he didn't run into the clan, I can only guess that it must've taken place during the day. And if I were him, I would have been more than a little cheesed-off that my path looped on me like that ("Aww, I just LEFT here!").
The Stone was a surprise, but cool (and I love Frank Welker's voice). If the Stone's speaking didn't surprise Arthur, though, I wonder what Arthur was reacting to when he gasped and lept back into Griff. He might have felt someone else in the room, I guess.
As for Griff's design, for the most part it's okay in this ep, except for where he recites the poem (nice poem, BTW). At this point, he loses his neck. It just looks like there's this huge LUMP in the middle of his shoulders that has a beak, eyes and a mohawk.
At any rate, I really like Arthur's portrayl (sp?) here. A lot of times in popular culture, it seems, he's turned into this infallible, wonderfully wise, Paladin-like character. While that is definitely a side of his personality, I like that it's only a side--Arthur is a human, and as such, imperfect. He's not terribly humble, he perfers acting to thinking (like you said), and continually refuses to accept the possibility that he may NOT be destined for Excalibur again. Actually, this makes him easier to identify with.
One bit I like: As Macbeth is performing the summon spell, Banquo yells over the wind and rain, "HE AIN'T PAYIN' US ENOUGH FOR THIS!" In hindsight, it's like a bit of foreshadowing for him and Fleance leaving Macbeth's service (and joining up with Castaway).
Arthur immediately recognizes Macbeth (no fond memories there), and Macbeth, of course, has no memory. I like how that doesn't really phase him, though.
The gargoyles expertly handle Macbeth and his goons (it's great how they disarmed them all in less than 5 seconds). Brooklyn displays his leadership of the clan when he opts to stay and collect "some answers" rather than pursue Macbeth.
And then the clan gets a big ol' 1-2-3 punch. 1) There's a gargoyle standing right in front of them--when they thought they were the last all this time. 2) King Arthur is there as well--THE King Arthur. 3) Both the gargoyle and King Arthur have seen their missing leader and friend, Goliath. It's a heck of a lot of information to take in, and that (coupled with their trying to find Excalibur and deal with Macbeth) kind of numbs them to the ramifications of Griff's very existence for the moment. Or, at least, that's my guess. I would have loved to hear them wonder whether or not Griff was the only other one.
One nit, here: The poem says "Ebon glass in emerald frame." And they (correctly) figure it's the lake, but the lake is just a dark blue. Ebon should be black. Oh, well.
Finally, we meet the Lady of the Lake. A fun little note, here: a few months ago, I turned some of my friends onto GARGOYLES, and sometimes they had interesting observations. One of them was along the lines of, "The Lady of the Lake would HAVE to be a Child of Oberon to have a body like THAT in the Dark Ages."
I like how Macbeth plugs in his crystal ball, and uses a monitor screen as his "scrying pool." Ah, the conveniences of modern technology.
Can't add much to what you've already said about the Water Djinn sequence, mostly because I find myself agreeing with you. Still, you guys only had 22 minutes or so to work with.
I got a kick out of the whole "Brooklyn" exchange. There are some inconveniences to being named after a location.
Like Todd, I was a bit surprised that Banquo (and Fleance as well, it seems) know about Macbeth's true identity. Mac must have a LOT of confidence in them.
At about this point, the Trio and Hudson largely take a backseat to the main action--Arthur and Griff vying with Macbeth for the sword. That's not to say that they don't have some good fight moments with Banquo and Fleance.
While it was never readily apparent that Banquo and Fleance were wearing power-suits, that knowledge does help explain a couple things I'd always wondered about: 1) How Banquo didn't lose his legs when Hudson hit them with what looked like the sword's cutting-edge, and 2) How Banquo wasn't crushed under the weight of both the tree AND Broadway.
Actually, Fleance seemed to be the more competent of the two in this battle--almost single-handedly taking out all four gargs. And she's got a tough hover-bike, one that crashes, but can still be used as stairs later on.
Griff encourages Arthur to continue fighting for Excalibur--yup, our king's found his first uber-loyal supporter.
The dragon...I am a BIG dragon buff, and I was indescribably pleased to see one in GARGOYLES, even if it was technically made of stone. The "vents" on the neck were an interesting and unique touch. And of course the whole "fight-and-flight" sequence was fun. The Trio and Hudson seemed to have the roughest time of it, being knocked back at the first, and then dodging fireballs while flying around the dragon's head, (Hudson whacking it with his sword...which right now reminds me of "Monty Python and the Holy Grail" where Lancelot whacks the French castle with his sword before retreating).
One thing that never ceases to amaze me is Griff's way of freeing Arthur--making the dragon drop him and then grabbing him by the *corner of his cape* as he starts to fall! Arthur never even blanched. Then again, this is the same guy who a few seconds later plunges his had into the magical fire to retrieve Excalibur. I loved that part, BTW.
Poor Macbeth looks so sad when he drops the remnants of the false sword. I like that Arthur asks Macbeth to join him. As I recall, that was something he often did in the old legends: make a friend and knight out of a former foe. Of course I also recall reading somewhere that Excalibur could burst into blue flame or some such thing, so what do I know?
Arthur pretty much states what his next quest is (find that old fart, Merlin), and then does something I didn't quite expect...he knights Griff. I have to admit, maybe it's a bit prejudiced on my part, but I never contemplated the idea of a gargoyle-knight. I like it though.
I didn't get the idea that this was a sort of "backdoor pilot" to a spin-off, but once I found out, it made perfect sense. If this ep was any indication, it was already shaping up to be a fine show.
There's my ramble, and tomorrow I start replying to EYE OF THE STORM.
I think you misunderstood me. The Stone sent him to the roof of the Guggenheim. I can't imagine that I said that he'd been there before. I don't think he'd been to Manhattan before. Of course, it's been two years, and I have no memory of what I wrote at all. But that seems unlikely.
I have a question concerning half-breeds. Perhaps you've answered it, but I've perused most of the questions concerning the third race, Oberon's children, and Fox. Anyway, if Merlin is the offspring of Oberon and a mortal human, does that make him immortal? Arthur seems intent on finding him at the end of the episode "Pendragon." Would this also mean that Fox, being the offspring of a similar union, is immortal? Does whether or not the immortal parent is male or female have any bearing on this?
The gender of the immortal parent has no bearing.
As for the rest, I've never said that Merlin was immortal, so you can't make assumption based on facts not in evidence.
Questions about Fox and Alexander's status have yet to be revealed.
Thanks for the "Pendragon" ramble, Greg.
This is, of course, an episode that I'm very fond of because of my being an Arthurian buff. I've been therefore eagerly awaiting your ramble on it for a long time, and I'm glad that the wait is finally over.
I hadn't expected Arthur and Griff to team up before this episode, but I very much liked the concept. I still think that it's a pity that the "Pendragon" spin-off never got made to show us their adventures. (It's still my personal favorite of the projected spin-offs in the Master Plan.)
Although you don't mention it, there's an echo here of the first Arthur-related episode in "Gargoyles", "A Lighthouse in the Sea of Time", with Macbeth again as the antagonist and Banquo and Fleance as his assistants. And again Macbeth is going after an Arthurian artifact.
A couple of bits about Macbeth in this episode still stand out to me. One is the fact that Banquo and Fleance know that he's *the* Macbeth; that got my attention at once. The other is that Macbeth, after drawing the fake-Excalibur from the statue, describes himself as "Macbeth, son of Findlaech". I very much enjoyed the little reference to his father, who thus gains a certain posthumous presence in the series long after "City of Stone Part One" (I find myself also recalling his cameo in "Avalon Part Two", when the Archmages are spying on Macbeth in 1020). Even when characters are dead, they're not forgotten.
I was initially a bit taken aback by the Stone of Destiny being the stone from the Sword in the Stone legend, since the Stone of Destiny was in either Ireland or Scotland at the time rather than in London (where the Sword in the Stone was set up), but I've since grown to accept it. It certainly makes sense; I've read a couple of commentaries on the Sword in the Stone legend which connected it to the Stone of Destiny, so equating them is certainly feasible. (I hadn't even considered the possibility of the Stone actually speaking those words to the assembled British nobles and knights until you mentioned it, I might add.)
I very much like the concept of Arthur's role being somewhere beyond Britain, even if it does take a different course from the traditional legends about his future return. (Arthur becoming ruler of Britain again would have made the Gargoyles Universe too different from the real world, of course, which gives an additional good reason to go in the direction that you chose.)
I hadn't even noted the parallel between Macbeth and King Pellinor, but I really like it. Thanks for sharing it with us. (I always was fond of Pellinor, from the time that I first met him in T. H. White's "The Sword in the Stone".) I certainly get a kick out of Arthur and Macbeth as allies - two of the most famous legendary kings of all time, if with dramatically different reputations. A real crossover concept, in fact.
Maybe the one weak point about the Gargoyles take on Arthur is that he seems a little too influenced by T. H. White - in the sense that he doesn't seem "uniquely Gargoyles Universe" enough. Other characters from traditional legend who cropped up in "Gargoyles" in major roles did so in a way that felt true to their originals, and yet in such a way that you could still, when meeting them, say "This is the Gargoyles Universe version of the character" at once. Macbeth was definitely this way, as is Puck, and so are the Weird Sisters, Oberon, and Titania. But Arthur feels maybe a bit too "conventional Arthur" in his appearances. Although I assume that, if you'd gotten to make the "Pendragon" spin-off, you'd have found ways of making him stand out a bit more from other writers' take on Arthur.
The bit about the fake Excalibur (which Arthur recognizes at once to be a fake) reminds me of a story in Malory where Morgan le Fay stole Excalibur from Arthur and replaced it with a worthless duplicate, while then giving the real Excalibur to one of her knights whom she then manipulated into attacking Arthur - obviously Arthur isn't going to be taken in by the lookalike ploy this time around.
And I certainly liked the concept of a different take on "the sword in the stone".
I can't help wondering a little what Leo and Una must have thought about Griff going off with Arthur so soon after he'd rejoined them, though I doubt that it was quite as bad this time around. For one thing, I get the impression that a major point behind it was that they didn't know for certain what had happened to Griff in "M.I.A.", and whether he was dead or not, which wouldn't happen this time around (since I recall that you mentioned that Griff called them up from New York long-distance). Also, there was the "buried guilt" issue over the fact that they knew, deep down inside, that they should have gone with him - and since now, after "M.I.A.", they've returned to being protectors, that isn't an issue any longer either.
At the end, I was eager to see Arthur and Griff go on their quest for Merlin, and thought it a pity that that story wasn't continued. (This will touch slightly on "Sentinel", but I'm saving my comments on that for when you ramble on it.) At least we get to see Arthur knighting Griff, which I thought was a great scene. And a fine way to begin a new set of adventures.... (Here's hoping that someday you'll get to tell them.)
I've got my fingers crossed certainly.
How did Elisa know how to wake up Sleeping King Arthur in Avalon part 3?
The Magus filled her in off-camera.
I believe you've said Arthur had some adventures before the events of "Pendragon", so, I was wondering…
1. When did Goliath & Co. arrive in London and meet Una and Leo (in "M.I.A.")?
2. When did Arthur arrive in London and first meet Griff (in "Pendragon")?
3. What day in 1920 did Goliath travel back to first meet Griff ("M.I.A.")?
1. Goliath, Elisa, Angela and Bronx arrive in London and first meet Leo and Una on January 23rd, 1996.
2. Arthur arrives in London and first meets Griff on May 19th, 1996.
3. I have not pinpointed a precise date in 1940 for when this took place. (Note, however, that the year is 1940, not 1920.)
I have some more questions about the Arthurian characters in the Gargoyles Universe,
1. When was Merlin imprisoned in the Crystal Cave?
2. Who imprisoned Merlin in the Crystal Cave?
3. When did Sir Gawain battle the Green Knight for the first time?
4a. Is Excalibur the Sword from the Stone or are the two separate swords? 4b. When was Excalibur forged? 4c. Where was Excalibur forged? 4d. By whom was Excalibur forged? 4e. How did Excalibur come into the possession of the Lady of the Lake?
5. What year were Sir Percival and Lady Blanchefleur wed?
6. What year were King Arthur and Lady Gwenyvere wed?
7. What year did Lancelot and Gwenyvere run away together?
8. Which spelling do you prefer: Gwenyvere or Guinevere? (I know Angela and Broadway's daughter's name is spelled Gwenyvere, but I wasn't sure if it was the same for the Arthurian queen)
9a. Who are Morgana le Fayâs parents (biological and/or adopted)? 9b. Is Morgana Arthurâs half-sister?
10. When and how did Sir Percival first come in contact with the Holy Grail and Castle Carbonek?
11a. Did Joseph of Arimathea bring the Grail to Britain? 11b. In what year did the Grail first come to Britain?
12. When where the Scroll of Merlin written?
As always, love the show and truly appreciate your dedication to your fans (including me) and their endless borage of questions. Thanks ;-)
1, 3, 4b, 5, 6, 7, 11b, 12. Again, haven't done the research or math on this yet.
2, 10, 11a. The legends make it pretty clear. Otherwise, I don't feel like scooping myself.
4a. In the Gargoyles Universe I'm conflating them into one sword.
4c, 4d, 4e, 9a. I'm not revealing this yet.
8. I haven't decided definitively yet.
9b. I've hinted at the answer to this, if you're in the mood to search the ASK GREG archives.
I have some questions about the birthdays of the Arthurian characters in the Gargoyles Universe,
1a. When was Merlin born? b. What was his mother's name? c. When was she born?
2. When was Nimue born?
3. When was Morgana le Fay born?
4. When was Gwenyvere born?
5. When was Lancelot born?
6. When was Galahad born?
7a. When was Percival born? 7b. What year did he take on the name Duval? 7c. Who are Percivalâs parents?
8. When was Blanchefleur born?
9. When was Gawain born?
10. When were the Lady of the Lake and the Green Knight born?
11a. When was Modred born? 11b. Who are his parents?
12. When were Uther Pendragon and Igraine born?
13. When was Ector born?
14. When was Kay born?
Thanks you for all your patience.
1a, 1c, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7a, 8, 9, 11a, 12, 13 & 14. I haven't yet sat down to do the research and math necessary to answer these questions. I've dated Arthur's birth as 485. You're welcome to sit down with Mallory or Lanclyn Green or whomever you prefer and figure out dates for the rest based on that. I will, eventually, have to figure out most of the above for myself, but I'm not motivated to do it now.
1b. I can't remember off the top of my head, but you're as capable of looking it up as I am. (Or ask Todd Jensen. I'd lay odds that he knows.)
7b. I haven't decided this yet.
10. As Children of Oberon, I'm not too interested in their 'birthdates'.
11b. His bioparents were Arthur and Morgause. He was raised by Morgause and Lot. (And, no, I haven't made a final decision on the spelling of either Modred or Morgause.)
A question about Elisa awakening King Arthur "early". Now, we know that Elisa awakened Arthur ahead of schedule, based on the information given in "Avalon Part Three" and "Pendragon", and that he was apparently originally supposed to be awakened somewhat later and for a different emergency than the Archmage (although we don't know what it was or how far away in time it would be).
What I'm curious about is: has Elisa thereby altered Arthur's destiny? To explain a little more about what I mean, I suppose that I'd better go into a brief "ramble".
We don't know much about the nature of fate or destiny in the Gargoyles Universe (beyond the fact that the Weird Sisters are linked to it, at least when Luna is the dominant one), but we can tell that it exists in some ways (such as Avalon sending people "where they need to be"). I don't know if it's actually supposed to be possible to "alter destiny" in the Gargoyles Universe, beyond the fact that we know that the past can't be altered (as Goliath and Demona have both learned the hard way), but since Elisa came to the Hollow Hill in her own time rather than in the past, her awakening Arthur obviously wouldn't count as changing history in the same way that somebody going back in time to, say, avert the Wyvern Massacre would. However, since the future is part of the time-stream (and I assume that the only 2198 in the Gargoyles Universe is the one where the Space-Spawn show up and take over the planet and there are no alternate 2198s where that event doesn't take place), it doesn't seem so probable that it can be altered.
On the other hand, we do know that carefully-laid plans that were devised, not by God or destiny or something of a transcendent nature, but by humans or gargoyles or the Oberati, can be changed through the actions of others. Demona and the Captain of the Guard's original plans to betray Castle Wyvern, for example, wound up having different results than those that they were expecting, thanks partly to Goliath's decision to only take Hudson with him, partly to Hakon's decision to smash the gargoyles at the castle in spite of the Captain's protests.
So what my real question is, I suppose, is this; was the original "future time" for Arthur's awakening (in which he will not be awakening after all thanks to Elisa) set by God or Fate or something of that nature, or was it set merely by people (as in, the ones who placed him in the Hollow Hill)? Has Elisa genuinely altered Arthur's future, or only altered his future as it was perceived by those who laid him to sleep on Avalon?
It's a very interesting distinction isn't it? Does Destiny = Future?
Well, I'm thinking no. The future, as you stated, is part of the timestream. Actual events that happened in the future (from some kind of external perspective) are immutable.
But Destiny, to me at least, means something different. Destiny is about potential. It's not about a lock or a guarantee.
Individual characters may be loose with language, but I think that in the Gargoyles Universe, when one says a character is "DESTINED" to do X, what one means is that said character is destined to ATTEMPT X. Doesn't guarantee success. Success relies on a combination of indiviual and circumstance.
So, to your original question, has Elisa altered Arthur's destiny? I'd have to say... "MAYBE!!!!"
I mean actually, I know the answer to that question, but I just don't feel like answering it now. What I mean by "maybe" is that she certainly may have. She may have created a new destiny for him. She may have spoiled plans for the old destiny. And yet he may find his way back to that old destiny. Or what he does accomplish may not be exactly the original destiny, but winds up doing the same thing or sowing seeds for others to reep. Any or all of the above.
Hi Greg! I'm posting for the first time and it feels wierd, since I tried to send questions 4 or 5 years ago and they got deleted. Anyway...
First of all, I'd like to thank you for having been (and still being) such an important part of the Gargoyles franchise. You (and others of course) provided me with easily THE single best animated show ever. A well written series great voice acting, continuous plots, characters that are believable, and a complex universe that manages both to include lots of existing legends and myths while still retaining a distinct identity. I truly think that in terms of all-around quality for a dramatic show, Gargoyles was easily Disney's best effort by far. Reboot is the only other animated show that I've seen that seems to exhibit the same qualities, meaning well-written, clever and quite enjoyable for both kids and adults.
Also, I'm happy to learn that Gathering 2004 will take place in Montreal, meaning I might actually be able to attend! I don't know if you're the one who chose the location, but if you are, thanks on behalf of us Canadians!
Finally, I'd just like to thank you for actually answering the flood of questions we fans send your way. And especially your god-like patience towards people who obviously never took the time to read the FAQ OR archive. I can understand asking about a minor detail that could have been missed, but among the questions being submitted, I know there are some LAZY people I wouldn't mind slapping once or twice in the face...
Anyway, I have a number of questions on different subject, so expect a few one-question posts from me.
This one would fit in a "Writing" category if there is such a thing.
1. Regarding your current master plan (i.e. your ideas for the various spin-offs), it's obvious you've given lots of thoughts to the initial setting of each. The main characters and their immediate goals for example, as well as ideas for early stories as well as a few ideas for on-going plots. A lot of course would be dictated by the characters (and your muse I'm sure) as the shows would go along.
a) Now here's my question: Do you have an idea about the possible endings of some of your spin-offs? I don't want you to tell me anything, just if you have some "Ultimate goals" in mind for all your spin-offs.
Gargoyles itself has always been very open-ended. There never was a single overlying theme to the series, it just kept going on on its own, the plots and characters growing in complexity in a very organic and sometimes unpredictable way. It could potentially keep going on for years and years.
But some of your spin-offs have very specific premises. There ARE stories that are better told if planned from beginning to end as a whole. Others however are better if left to evolve on their own. An aimless story could potentially "find its voice" after a while, leading to an ultimate ending of sorts. Or, the initial premise could be transformed over time, leading the story in a quite different direction.
For example, Star Trek: Deep Space Nine. Initially, the show is about our heroes trying to restore a people (Bajorans) to a stable society following years of occupation by an enemy race (Cardassians). Yet, after two years, the show introduced a much bigger menace, a race who sought to conquer and control all others (the Dominion). From then on, the show eventually lead to a huge war with the ending signaling the end of the hostility.
a) How do you feel about long stories? About those that are open-ended and those that have some finality set for them? (I hope I'm not being to vague here. I'm really interested in how you feel about this)
And about some specifics spin-offs:
b) Bad Guys: The basic idea is about our main characters seeking redemption. Do you know if they ever find it? And would that be the goal of the show?
c) TimeDancer: Ultimately, the very final ending is, in a way, already known. Brooklyn makes it home a lot older with a family. But do you already have some sketchy idea about how he finally makes it there, like some final adventure dealing with the Phoenix Gate itself, or were you planing on dealing with it once you were forced to, like a series' finale?
c) Gargoyles 2198: This one seems to be mostly about the war against the Space-Spawn but as you often say, "Things aren't that simple". Would the liberation of Earth signal the end of the series, or would you keep the series going with the existing setting once the war is over? After all, there might still be other threats like Coyote-X, the Illuminati, etc.
d) Dark Ages: Since this one could theoretically run up to the beginning of "Awakening", I won't ask if you have an ending in mind.
e) Pendragon: It's obvious now that Merlin, Mr. Duval and Holy Grail would be important part of the story. Do you have an ending in mind for this one, or where you again planing on seeing where the story ultimately took you?
f) New Olympians: This one feels pretty generic, and feels like it could run forever like Gargoyles. The ultimate goal I suppose would be the acceptance of New Olympus by humanity, but judging by the response toward gargoyles, wouldn't likely fit within an entire series, no matter how long it might be. Still, got an ending in mind, even if it's pretty open-ended, like "Hunter's Moon pt.3"?
Thanks a lot for answering.
Well, time delay means that I believe we met in Montreal (and, no, I didn't choose the location -- I don't make those decisions). You played Lex in the radio play, right?
1a. Some yes, some no. I know where Dark Ages ends -- with "Awakening, Part One". I know where "TimeDancer" ends... right where it began. I have a VERY good idea of how the Space-Spawn thing is resolved, but I don't think that necessarily marks the end of 2198. And likewise, I don't have a firm ending for Pendragon, Bad Guys or the New Olympians... but I have a good idea where I want to go with the first major arcs. As for Gargoyles itself -- that would end in 2198.
1a) [You had two (a)s.] Some stories -- whether long or short -- need closure. They're one-shots... no matter how long they last. Others can be open-ended. I lean toward the latter personally... because life is ongoing -- even after individuals die. But I respect the other form as well.
b) I'm not going to reveal whether or not they find redemption, but yes that's the goal. The thing is... even if I were to redeem all the original cast, the concept can survive them. And new characters may be introduced that give us a reason to continue. I will say, that I wouldn't be shy to bring a series to an end if I had no more stories to tell. That just has never happened to me within the Garg Universe. Not yet anyway.
c) See above for confirmation of your basic thesis. But I have a fairly clear general idea of how the whole dance, including the finale choreographs. But I won't pretend I have all forty years worth of adventures planned out to the last detail. I don't.
c) [You had two (c)s, as well.] See above. The war doesn't end the series.
d) See above.
e) I have endings in mind for some of the arcs that I plan to set in motion. But even the ultimate death of Arthur himself (which I was not planning anytime soon) might not end this series. I have at least one significant idea to go beyond Arthur...
f) Same deal. I have specific arcs in mind, and I have a solid idea of how they end. But I doubt that they wouldn't lead to more stories. If in fact they didn't and I was out of juice there, I'd shut it down.
If he were to see it (provided he hasn't seen it already), what would King Arthur think of the film Monty Python and the Holy Grail?
I don't know... but I like it.
1. you've said before that Una, Leo and Griff hatched in 1898. Leo and Una haved aged normally, but Griff was pulled forward in time 55 years or so. so, the closest generation in biological age to Griff is the rookery that hatched in 1958, correct? that would make him just slightly biologically older than Brooklyn, but not as old as Goliath, right?
2. will Griff find a new mate since Una is with Leo now (and WAY too old for him)?
3. you once mentioned that "The Three" taught the London Clan the nursery ryhme about King Arthur that Griff quoted in "Pendragon". who were/are "The Three"?
4. how much time was there between when Goliath brought Griff to the modern age (MIA) and when Arthur showed up in London (Pendragon)?
1. In 1996, Goliath was biologically 29. The Trio were biologically 19. Griff was biologically 22. That would put him closer in biological age to Sora (hatched in 1958) then Yama (hatched in 1938).
2. One would hope.
3. I just tried to search through the archives for "The Three" and couldn't find an appropo reference. But I think I've covered this before... if not, I guess I'm revealing something... the three I assume you're referring to are Morgana le Fey, Nimue and the Lady of the Lake.
4. Griff gated to the present on January 24th, 1996. Arthur arrived in London on May 18th, 1996. (Though he and Griff didn't actually meet until after midnight, i.e. on May 19th.)
When you recently answered one of my questions about "Pendragon", you said in the course of it:
<So elements, like the Illuminati, the Gargoyles and Macbeth would have definitely entered into stories of the Questing Beast and the Holy Grail, and vice versa, etc.>
I was interested in the "Questing Beast" part, because I hadn't seriously thought that the Questing Beast was going to show up in "Pendragon" - for one thing, it hadn't made the "Arthurian survivors" list - but now it appears that the Beast would still be around. Did I read what you said correctly? That the Questing Beast would feature in "Pendragon"? I'm glad to learn that, since I'd always had a certain fondness for the Questing Beast dating back from when I first read about it in T. H. White's "The Sword in the Stone".
As I've said, given enough time and episodes, we'd eventually cover everything in one way or another -- so how could I leave out the Questing Beast?
A couple of questions:
1)What is Arthur Pendragon's legacy in the Gargoyles universe after he was carried away to Avalon?
2)What is Arthur Pendragon's legacy in the Gargoyles universe after he really died?
I don't really understand what either of these questions mean. One life -- any life -- touches untold numbers of others directly and indirectly. A life of historical significance, let alone legendary significance is going to touch an exponential amount of people.
Can you give me a family tree of oberon and titiania's children across the centuries? I can't figure out if Puck is Alexnder Xanatos is pucks nephew or not. I would really like to know about Puck's/owen's secret love that you mentioned earlier too.
I'm not going to reveal anything new at this time, but I will summarize what I've already revealed:
Lord Oberon is the son of Queen Mab.
Lord Oberon married Titania (who became Queen Titania after Mab was overthrown). (Note: Oberon intentionally did not take the title of King. Retaining his "Lord" title is his semi-skewed attempt at being more... egalitarian.)
Oberon and Titania have two children together: one male and one female. I know exactly who they are, but I'm keeping their identities and personas secret for the time being.
Oberon also has at least two sons by mortal women: Merlin and the changeling boy from Shakespeare's "A Midsummer Night's Dream".
Titania has one child with the mortal Halcyon Renard. This is Janine Renard, a.k.a. Fox.
Fox married David Xanatos. They have one child: Alexander Fox Xanatos.
Puck, a.k.a. Owen Burnett, is not directly related to ANY of these individuals.
Time to ramble...
Chapter XLVIII: "Pendragon"
Story Editor: Brynne Chandler Reaves
Writer: Lydia Marano
Director: Dennis Woodyard
There's a wonderful children's book called "Something's Coming" about three stuffed animals and [SPOILERS] a sneeze. I hadn't read that book when we did this episode, but it was all I could think of reviewing the opening minutes now.
In fact, what's coming, according to Macbeth, is the "Harmonic Convergence". When I heard that, I immediately jumped to the conclusion that this was a Cary Bates episode. (Cary, at least for a time, was very into incorporating all sorts of New Agey schtick into his work [cf. his comic book series SILVERBLADE published in the late 80s by DC Comics].)
Of course, as noted above, this was a Brynne/Lydia/Greg collaboration. No Cary at all.
A BRIEF STOPOVER IN LONDON
Arthur arrives in his "City of Wonders", i.e. modern day London. We throw in some beauty shots of the city from "M.I.A." here. It helped us trim a few bad seconds of animation later in the episode, and helped establish the mood a bit better.
With Arthur arriving at what must have been his final destination from Avalon's point of view (minus a quick Stone of Destiny hop to NYC's Guggenheim Museum), his skiff sinks down into the water. I always imagined that the skiff resurfaced back on Avalon. Having shown this here, I didn't feel bad about NOT showing the sinking skiff in "Gathering, One" when our quartet returned to Manhattan. Allowed us to keep some surprise at their arrival at the Clock Tower.
Arthur makes a point of using a mace, since his quest is to find EXCALIBUR and we didn't want to confuse the issue by having him simply exchange one decent sword for the subtlety of a better sword. Or at least not until the end of the ep.
We also made a point of him missing Merlin, which was a bit of foreshadowing to the proposed Pendragon spin-off, where Arthur and Griff's first order of business would be a Quest for Merlin.
Speaking of Griff, his silhouette is a bit too distinctive here for my tastes. I wish it hadn't quite given away his indentity so soon. His design is somewhat inconsistent in this episode. As I mentioned during my "M.I.A." episode, Frank, Greg Guler and I were never 100% satisfied with the design. In this episode, in particular, he has some real Foghorn Leghorn moments.
The first real stop on Arthur's tour is Westminster Abbey. The door is locked, which makes sense in the Twentieth Century but not to a guy from the Sixth Century. And it perhaps makes even less sense to us in the 21st-Century. Is that all the security that exists there: a locked door? And of course, GARGOYLES continues its traditions of wantonly damaging historical sites, when Arthur uses his mace to enter.
Inside we find the Stone of Destiny in it's 1990s home beneath the throne. Shortly thereafter, the Stone would be moved to Edinburgh Castle. As for the Stone, I perpetrated one of my favorite mythological devices, which is conflating various similar concepts... so the Stone of Destiny (i.e. Jacob's pillow) also becomes the Stone from the Sword in the Stone, i.e. the stone from which Arthur drew Excalibur. And the thing talks!! What's interesting to me now, is that Arthur doesn't seem surprised by the fact that it talks. Legends state that an inscription revealed that "Whosoever pulleth this sword from this stone [and anvil] will become King of Britain." But perhaps there was no inscription, and the stone talked from day one. One question: Is the Stone itself one of Oberon's Children (in stone form) or is it magically enchanted? (I lean toward the latter, but it's interesting to ponder the former.)
Arthur, without Excalibur, had hoped that the sword would have returned to the stone. He's frustrated when he finds it hasn't. But he doesn't doubt his "ownership" of it, until much later in the episode. The Powers That Be are much less sure of Arthur's claim on it. They are constantly reminding him that at best, all he has is a shot at it: "It belongs to the True King. Are you still he?"
I also love how Arthur says that he hates riddles. It just feels so right for my interpretation of Arthur as a man who LEARNED to be a thinker, but to whom it didn't necessarily come naturally. Said interpretation of course heavily influenced by the works of T.H. White. Anyway, that poem/riddle which Griff recites (an unknowing trust past down across generations of the London Clan) was written, as I recall, by Lydia. It was hearing this poem that reminded me that she had written this episode and not Cary.
Note that everytime he sees a gargoyle, Arthur asks if he's "of Goliath's Clan".
BACK AT THE RANCH
Once again, we abandon our travelers to focus on life on the homefront with the Trio & Hudson. We will, once they've met up with Griff & Arthur, get a bit of an update on how updated our left-behinders are. They've heard from Halcyon Renard that he spotted Goliath, Elisa & Bronx in Prague. They've heard from Diane Maza that she spotted them in Nigeria. [I have to assume that all communications were channelled, per Elisa's suggestion, through Matt.] Now they learn about the travelers stop-overs in London (from Griff) and Avalon (from Arthur). [All of this was a bit of a risk, as we couldn't guarantee the airing order of the World Tour episodes. But I guess we felt it was a risk worth taking in order to give us a bit of legitimate continuity. Fortunately, it all worked out.] I'm curious if Angela was mentioned by either Renard or Diane (or Griff or Arthur after the adventure was over), and if so how prominently. Also, Griff demonstrably proves that other Gargoyles still exist in the world. Though the ramifications of that and of Angela clearly don't sink in with Hudson and the others until "The Gathering, Part One".
You'll see flashes of Brooklyn taking charge in this episode. With no one (including him) questioning it or even making an issue of it. I guess the lessons of "Kingdom" stuck.
You'll also see Broadway destroying one of Macbeth's lightning guns. But in contrast, Griff -- a man of HIS era, i.e. the forties -- comandeers the other one and makes it a part of his arsenal. I liked that, even -- or especially -- with the spin-off series in mind.
WILL OF THE WHISP AND OTHER STRANGERS...
I've since revealed here at ASK GREG, that the Will of the Whisp (introduced here by Macbeth, who uses both science and sorcery to control and utilize it) is the primitive magical entity that Oberon's Children evolved from. Sort of the Homo Erectus of the magical set. (Or maybe something even more primitive like a lemur or lungfish.)
The Lady of the Lake surfaces (literally). I like Lexington's "And she was right in our own lake.." for its understated humor. Also, this gives Hudson an excuse to say "Jalapeña", thus fulfilling another of the verbal challenges that Voice Director Jamie Thomason set for me -- and thus further pissing off the contingent of artists who truly HATED that expression. I think this may be one of the last times, until "The Journey", that we used it.
Anyway, we constantly raise the question of why the sword and the Lady associated with it were now in New York and not in Britain. Of course, the short answer was that we wanted to involve Hudson & the Trio without sending them on their own World Tour. But in fact, we did have a larger purpose. We wanted Arthur to become a player on the World Stage. A larger stage, as the Lady says.
I wasn't wild about that Water Djinn sequence. We wanted Arthur to solve the problem through leadership. But having him order Griff to use the Lightning weapon seems a fairly feeble solution to me (even though I endorsed it at the time). Wouldn't Arthur simply be electrocuted?
It's a goofy joke, but I still chuckle at Lex saying "Brooklyn" and Brooklyn answering.
I also am amused by the fact that it's Banquo in his slow pondering way that gives Macbeth the idea -- if not the ambition -- to take Excalibur for his own: "Hey Boss, you're a king. And you've been alive a long time..." Mac, an established Arthurphile, may seem an unlikely person to try to supplant his own hero. But it perfectly suits my interpretation of the character. Our Macbeth may not have the ambition of Shakespeare's Macbeth. But he's always been a man to sieze an appropriate opportunity. And he's always been a man in search of his own purpose. Perhaps this business of being a "Timeless King" and everything else that Excalibur represents in the past and future provides the reason for why he's lived for a largely tormented nine hundred years. Of course, Mac is also a man of honor. He vies for the sword. But when it becomes clear at the VERY end that Arthur is indeed its true master, he swears fealty to the (Whitean) Once and Future King. The thought DID cross my mind to add Macbeth to the cast of regulars in my PENDRAGON development. To give Arthur, in essence, two knights: Griff & Macbeth. But the dilemma comes in the fact that any spin-off has to stand on its own two feet. Characters can have backstories, but you can't assume that the audience has seen x amount of episodes of Gargoyles. I felt that telling Arthur's GARGOYLES-related backstory was going to be difficult enough. Throw in Griff's complicated story and you've set yourself a real challenge. Throw in Macbeth and that boat is just going to sink under two much backstory-weight. Much better to use him as guest star. Then if it seemed to work, over time he might spend MORE time in Pendragon. You never know. [NOTE: I was considerably less worried about adding Blanchfleur, Merlin and Duval to the cast, as we would be introducing them IN Pendragon.] So in the end, Mac accepts a more separate but equal arrangement. This was still cool to me. It reminded me of Arthur's relationship with King Pellinore. King Pellinore was also a King, but he was a wandering King. He didn't always sit at the Round Table, but he always came to Arthur's side, when Arthur needed him. They maintained a certain equality between them, and yet unspoken was the acknowledgement that Arthur was the one true king.
Speaking of Banquo... note his "Popeye" expression throughout most of the episode. This is a result of his model sheet, which showed him squinting through one eye. That was just supposed to be a single expression, but many of the overseas artists naturally assumed that it was a permanent condition -- because of course, we didn't have another model sheet with a different expression. Also, what did you think of Banquo & Fleance's power armor. I'm not sure it really came across as power armor. It was supposed to make them tougher and stronger. But I think it just looked like a flight suit for their sky-cycles. [But I did love those sky-cycles, especially the way Lex used them as a staircase for the Gargoyles to get some air. That was really cool and clever, I think.]
Random fact: My ten-year-old daughter Erin was fascinated with the topiary monkey.
An episode called Pendragon needed... a Dragon. I think this one is positively glorious. I love those steam vents. And the stone flight. And the fire. GREAT FIRE. But before it wakes up, I like how in essence this stone statue becomes the NEW Stone of Destiny. Macbeth draws the (faux) Excalibur from the dragon's stone grip and declares: "Macbeth, son of Findlaech, is the one true king." Arthur for a minute seems a sore loser. But his better nature wins out, after Macbeth points out that he's being a jerk. [Macbeth is great about being right when he's wrong.] When, as a youngster, Arthur drew the sword, many opposed his rule. It's a lesson that he's learned from. Griff resists, but Arthur kneels. He will not be an obstructionist if Macbeth is the new true king. Erin also felt that Arthur was being a sore loser. But Benny, my seven-year-old, disagreed, calling Arthur "the World's best fighter" and therefore the guy who deserved the sword. What's interesting, is that was NEVER my intent. I don't think of Arthur as the world's best FIGHTER. Even in his own legends, there were many knights who could outfight him. Arthur was a decent fighter, but his greatest strength was as a LEADER of men. That's what we tried to get across, both here and in "Avalon, Part Three".
It's also a cool play on words, I think, that this time the phrase "Sword IN the Stone" needs to be taken literally. The dragon statue surrounds the true sword inside it. I love the steps Arthur goes through to figure this out, primarily that moment when he recovers the faux Excalibur and can instantly sense that it isn't the genuine article. That was us trying to DEMONSTRATE with clarity that Excalibur wasn't just any sword, but rather something special. But what exactly was it? That, to be honest, we still needed to figure out. But we were hoping we'd have an entire spin-off to explore that question.
SOME GOOD LINES
Fleance: "No free rides, Bat-boy."
Broadway: "Now you stay put." And Banquo: "No problem."
Lex: "Take the stairs."
Arthur: "Arise... SIR Griff."
Plus a bunch of great British Griffisms:
"In for a penny, in for a pound."
"Well, that just about tears it."
"You are the Once and Future King."
"Right with you, Your Majesty"
"That's the stuff!"
Anyway, that's my ramble. Where's yours?
What did the Lady of the Lake mean when she said that the world needed a leader? Was that suppose to be mean that Arthur was to become leader of the world?
A leader for the world, not necessarily THE leader OF the world.
How long was the Lady of the Lake living in that lake in Manhattan?
I don't know that she was living there.
1.Were you going to introduce more "International Heroes" in Pendragon?
2.What exactly is the purpose of all these heroes?
1. Not per se, but it happens. I had an overall plan for the "International Heroes" however, and Pendragon had a role in that plan.
2. Not going to reveal that yet.
Hey Gregg, I'm new to this site, and I was just wondering... is there something I missed about Gargoyles? I mean, I know of Gargoyles, and The Goliath Chronicles, but was there some other Gargoyle show that aired after?
What lies ahead for Gargoyles? Do you plan on bringing them back to the air at some point? I'd really like to see some new Gargoyles cartoons....
There were proposed spin-offs, sequels and prequels, including
Gargoyles: The Dark Ages
The New Olympians
plus plenty ideas just to continue the "Gargoyles" series itself.
I haven't been able to convince Disney to do any of these things.
But who knows?
"Firefly" was dead. It sold a TON of DVDs and now they're making a movie, "Serenity". "Family Guy" was dead. It sold a TON of DVDs and now they're making new episodes.
Up until this year, the best single way you could help relaunch the show in some way, shape or form was by attending the Gathering, our annual convention. That's still true. So if you haven't heard, check out this year's con at their website:
The good folks at Walt Disney Home Entertainment took notice of the fandom, largely thanks to these conventions. They'll be attending this year with a video crew to tape footage of the con to put on the Gargoyles DVD, to be released later THIS year (2004!).
The DVD will contain all 13 episodes of the series' first season, complete and uncut. It will also have a commentary track and other extras (in addition to the con footage) that are still being discussed.
If you want to see the 2nd Season on DVD, and if you want to see Disney make more Garg Universe materials, there's no better way to get them to take notice than by buying the DVD. If the fans demonstrate an audience with disposable income, Disney will respond. It's not far-fetched. It's happened before.
I am from Iceland and want ask a question about person that i have seen not asked about.
Would Prince Valiant appear in The Pendragon series, i meen he was quite unique knight (at least in the comics about him) and he had Excalbur's sister sword; Flamberg.
P.S be merciful to me(glup).
Prince Valiant is not public domain, so the answer is no. Hope that was merciful enough.
You mentioned once that the rookery riddle about Excalibur Griff recites in "Pendragon" was taught his clan by "the three". A few people have claimed that "the three" are Morgan le Fay, Nimue, and the Lady of the Lake; my own response was that we don't know as yet who "the three" are; that title isn't specific enough. What are your thoughts on this issue?
Well, I'm sure I was being intentionally vague. But in fact you just named the three I was talking about, and I guess I'm feeling generous, because I'm copping to it.
It's The Cat, again. Technically I've already asked this question, but it has more to do with when the gargoyles learned how to read than anything else.
It has been asked already, but your answer is not correct.
You aswered that Demona learned from the Archmage. Goliath learned from Demona. Lexington learned right before they were turned to stone for a thousand years. Brooklyn learned right after the spell was broken and of course Broadway and Hudson learned together from Elisa and the rest of the clan.
It is not correct in the fact that English was not a language back in 994A.D., much less a written language. So, here is your answer revised a bit for all those people that have to learn this in History class and then wonder how it could be possible for the gargoyles to have learned to read English if it wasn't a language.
Demona learned how to read English sometime while the others were in their stone sleep, after all life must really get boring having nothing to do and being a live for several centuries( do ya'll people really think that she'd kill humans all the time?) Goliath, Brooklyn and Lexington most likely learned how to read right after the spell was broken. After all the language Goliath and Lexington learned how to read was most likely Latin given the fact that that language was the only one besides Greek and Hebrew that were written down at the time.
Another question(actually the one above wasn't really a question, hmm, I've really got to work on that)
In the episode, A Lighthouse in the Sea of Time, The Scroles(I'm unsure if I spelt that right and I don't have a dictionary at hand right now) of Merlin were written in Ancient Celtic, but how could that be? Celtic wasn't a written language. Or it could have been and I just haven't covered that topic in my history lessons yet. But I don't think it was a written language at the time that the scrolls were written.
Well, I know this is a kind of multi-topic letter, but I was going on the topic of written languages more than anything. See ya.
I don't think I was asked when they learned to "read English", I think I was asked when they learned to read.
Of course, we generally cheated on language issues. Michael Reaves had a magical solution to this, which I like and have commented on before.
As for the Scrolls, I'd have to do more research to answer you in the kind of detail your post displays.
what happened to king arthur after he retrieved Excalibur.
He and Griff went looking for Merlin.
Here's my ramble on "Shadows of the Past".
First off, of course, this is where the Avalon World Tour begins (if you don't count the "Avalon" triptych), which makes it a biggie. I agree with you that the reruns in between the three instalments of it (which aired, as I recall, in November-December 1995, February 1996, and May 1996 - more or less) make the World Tour seem longer than it really was. (Incidentally, you're right that you were able to bring out more than 18 episodes of "Gargoyles" in the September-December period; I remembered that the "fall run" ended with "Grief", and so worked out that it was 30 new episodes during that period).
As I mentioned before, I enjoyed the Avalon World Tour, and agree with you that something like that was necessary for the series at some point (especially in bringing in enough other gargoyles to make it feasible for the species to survive and recover - as I've mentioned here before, something along the lines of the World Tour was probably the only realistic way for Goliath to discover that there were gargoyles left in other parts of the world, given that he couldn't simply hop on board the next flight from New York to London or Japan).
Angela's correct (from the original legends perspective) about it always being summer on Avalon; in fact, I remember that the old Welsh legends about Avalon (or, more accurately, its "literary predecessors") called it the Summer Country or the Region of the Summer Stars.
In hindsight from "Vendettas", I picked up on the significance of that axe that Goliath unearths - and agree with you now that Hakon's mace from the Wyvern Massacre would indeed have worked better. Too late for that now, though.
I also liked that line (which I considered very poetic) of Elisa's about "old wounds".
The Captain and Hakon's tormenting of Goliath was very effective - probably the creepiest part, in my opinion, was when Angela and Elisa appear in Goliath's eyes to be the Captain and Hakon - but then we hear Angela and Elisa's voices coming from the Captain and Hakon's mouths.
The Captain of the Guard's change of heart worked for me (again, I especially liked the bit that you mentioned where he's looking troubledly at his hands as he and Hakon solidify). In fact, it made sense in view of his role in "Awakening" - he'd never wanted the clan massacred, and was horrified as to how that had gone wrong. I might add that Hakon showed, again, just how creepy he is when he gets into the fight with Goliath and begins laughing as his fists pass through Goliath - the reason for that being now, not that Hakon's insubstantial and Goliath solid, but the other way around.
Incidentally, the Captain actually appears better-looking in the scene where he's giving Goliath his thanks, just before he ascends.
And I'll confess that I'm one of those who would have preferred Hakon to have remained trapped in the cave for all time - I felt, when "Vendettas" aired, that it destroyed some of the effectiveness, in retrospect, of Hakon's sentence: trapped alone for eternity, with nobody at hand for him to hate. (Also, "Vendettas" felt anticlimactic on the Hakon front; in "Shadows of the Past", he battles Goliath by skillfully undermining him with a lot of psychological subtlety; in "Vendettas", he's reduced to simply fighting him in a slugfest with a big dumb werewolf - though don't tell Wolf that I called him that. :) ). But I do think that you made a good point about how, ultimately, Hakon would have to be given more permanent resolution than just that.
Incidentally, your treatment of the megalith that the Captain and Hakon were using, and your comments on it, make me wonder now how you would have handled Stonehenge if you'd ever gotten to do an episode involving it (especially since you mentioned having had plans to send King Arthur and Griff there during their quest for Merlin) - a pity that we may never know the answer to that now.
*I think it's appropriate that as the Captain is (in essence) redeemed and "ascends", that he is beatified a bit.
*I get what you're saying about Hakon, certainly. And yet, I really like "Vendettas" and hardly think that Hakon's post-Vendettas fate is likely to be any kinder than his post-Shadows fate. And although Hakon was the series' first big villain, he was hardly the most impressive of our villainous creations.
But, let's be honest, I just couldn't resist giving Clancy Brown the opportunity for a David Warner-esque tour de force performance. I'm sure I'll get into this topic more when (some day) I get around to rambling on Vendettas, but I think Clancy's double duty in Vendettas is perhaps even more impressive than what Warner did -- (a) because Clancy did what he did with a then amateur voice director (i.e. me) and (b) because the two characters he was playing (Wolf & Hakon) allowed for much less subtlty than Warner's two Archmages. (This of course, is not designed to take any credit away from the brilliant David Warner, simply to give Clancy his just desserts as well. And speaking of Clancy, he does a great Mr. Freeze in the new "The Batman" series.)
*The ideas used in Shadows for the Megaliths, were in fact cribbed from ideas I've had for Stonehenge for some time. (Pre-dating the creation of Gargoyles, in fact.) It would be interesting to see (even to me) how I handled Stonehenge now. On the one hand, I wouldn't want to repeat myself, but I'd also want to be consistent and I don't want to betray the notions I've had in my head forever. That's the problem when your brain begins to cannibalize its own ideas. A danger I find myself facing all the time.
Yay! A new episode ramble! Thanks, Greg!
Here are some of my own thoughts about "Double Jeopardy".
The opening one is a rather odd little memory. In the summer of 1995, I spotted an article on "Gargoyles" in a sci-fi magazine (whose name I can no longer remember) discussing what would be done in Season Two; among other things, it included a mention that Goliath's daughter would be introduced into the series. I was quite curious about that, and wondered what she'd be like and how it would be done. And then, when "Double Jeopardy" first aired, and Thailog was treated as Goliath's son in it, I wondered if the article had erred and gotten the gender of Goliath's offspring wrong. (Of course, I know now that it was Angela that the article meant, not Thailog, so that there was no mistake there except on my part.)
In light of the opening flashback, Xanatos must have already started building a whole new set of Steel Clan robots even while he was still in prison, before "The Edge" (especially given that I spotted a whole bunch of those robots in storage, alongside the one that was activated to attack Goliath).
I also liked Owen's "Is this a plan that you've neglected to mention?" line. He really sounded hurt there.
I was interested to notice Renard on Xanatos's suspects list for Thailog's kidnapping, alongside Demona and Macbeth. While I can easily imagine Demona or Macbeth being willing to engage in such a maneuver against Xanatos, I doubt, in light of his rigid code of integrity, that Renard would have done the same (although there is "Golem" to consider, coming up later in the season). Maybe Xanatos believed that the temptation of kidnapping his new gargoyle would have been too much for even his father-in-law to resist.
Sevarius's hamming it up with Xanatos ("Yes! You robbed me of my creation!") was one of the funniest moments in "Gargoyles" for me; certainly the funniest in the episode. (Don't quit your day job, Anton.) And I agree with you about the Dr. Antinori business, by the way. (Also on the subject of Sevarius's overacting, I couldn't help but think that some of his narration in the "clone files" that Lex and Broadway discovered felt almost like a parody of that in a nature documentary, such as the "time for it to leave the nest" line, though I don't know if it was intended that way.)
You no doubt recall how I'd earlier pointed out the similarities between Thailog and Edmund (which I first began to notice after you mentioned Edmund being your favorite Shakespeare character); it occurred to me recently that Thailog also does have a certain similarity to Mordred, especially in many modern-day versions of the Arthurian legend, such as T. H. White. He's Goliath's "illegitimate son", just as Mordred was Arthur's, and his training by his other two fathers, Xanatos and Sevarius, does have (if you're out looking for the parallels) a certain echo of how Mordred, in White's "The Once and Future King", similarly gets trained by his mother Morgause. And the dynamics between Goliath and Thailog, with Goliath initially rejecting his son but then learning that he was wrong to do so, and now reaching out to him - but too late - do remind me of how in White, Arthur similarly initially moves against his son (trying to drown him at birth), but then understands that he was wrong to do so, also makes the attempt to reach out to him, but is coldly rejected by Mordred when he does so. (Come to think of it, Thailog also clearly lusts after both of Goliath's loves, Demona and Elisa, even to the point of combining them in Delilah, just as Mordred lusts after his stepmother Guinevere and attempts to wed her after he usurps his father's throne.)
I've mentioned before the element that I believe makes Thailog an especially great antagonist (the incongruous pairing of Goliath's physical appearance and voice with a thoroughly Xanatosian amorality - though I think that Thailog comes across as more malevolent than Xanatos does, which is also a good touch), so I won't go into that again. It's a bit of a pity that he only turned up twice more in the original series after that ("Sanctuary" and "The Reckoning"), although I suppose that if you'd gotten to do more episodes past "The Journey" that we'd have gotten a lot more of the guy.
The ending definitely surprised me; I was expecting Xanatos to reveal that he'd seen to it that he didn't lose the ransom money after all, but instead we got the revelation that Thailog had escaped with it and is out there, happily scheming away, to Xanatos's own alarm. (As I mentioned before, it's particularly of interest to note that this is the last time in the series that Xanatos attempts to make his own gargoyles - and after the way that Thailog backfired on him, who can blame him?)
It's great to have the rambles going again, and I'm looking forward to the ones to come.
I'm afraid we haven't made that much Ramble progress recently, though I know we got past Avalon and into (at least) the beginning of the World Tour.
I think, like your Edmund comparison, your comparison of Thailog to Mordred is very apt. Perhaps moreso. Another bastard, basically. I'm not sure how conscious I was of any of these individuals influences, but I'm fascinated with the archetype of "The Bastard" in literature. Both the quote/unquote good guys (like Theseus, Arthur, Dunois, etc.) and the quote/unquote bad guys (like Edmund and Mordred, etc.) Thailog with his three fathers was clearly designed to be our bastard. And what a great bastard he is.
I've certainly read White's ONCE AND FUTURE KING at least a couple times. And I've lost count how many times I've seen CAMELOT.
A couple of "King Arthur-in-the-comics" related questions:
1. You mentioned that you've read "Camelot 3000" (and were even working at DC Comics at the time that it came out). In your opinion, did it have any influence on your vision of Arthur's return in the Gargoyles Universe. (Well, there were obviously some strong differences, such as Arthur returning in the present day in "Gargoyles" rather than the year 3000, and finding Excalibur before he finds Merlin where in "Camelot 3000", it was the other way around).
2. Have you ever read "Prince Valiant" (the most famous Arthurian comic)? If so, what did you think of it?
1. My ideas on Arthur were fairly well-formed by the time I read Camelot 3000, a limited series by Mike W. Barr and Brian Bolland. For example, in my mind Arthur was in Avalon, not on British soil. And frankly, the notion of Arthur coming back is part of the legend, not something that Mike came up with. I also have no plans to use reincarnation to bring back dead knights, etc. So I don't think it was a major influence.
Having said that, I thoroughly enjoyed Camelot 3000. Thoroughly.
2. Prince Valiant was never in the L.A. Times, at least not in my memory. When I was in High School, it appeared in the now-defunct L.A. Herald Examiner, a paper we didn't get at home, on Sundays only. So on Monday mornings, I would occasionally take a look at it. Basically, I'm passingly familiar with it, but I don't know much about it.
1.Is Morgana related to Oberon?
2.What does she think of Oberon?
3.Does she still hate Arthur or Merlin?
1. Not saying.
2. Not saying.
3. At what point in history?
1/ What is the connection (if any) of the Illuminati that Percival (Duval) created in 642 and the Illuminati created by Adam Weishaupt in 1778?
2/ Was Percival present at the Battle of Camlann in 542? If not, was it because of his responsibilities as the Fisher King?
3/ Does the Illuminati have connections to the Knights Templar and the Freemasons in the gargoyles universe?
1. I'm not answering that at this time.
Time to ramble...
Haven't done this in a while (over a year, actually), and I definitely feel rusty. Anyway, I watched "M.I.A." last night with my wife Beth, my nine-year-old daughter Erin and my six-year-old son Benny.
This episode was directed by Kazuo Terada, story edited by Gary Sperling and written by Robert Cohen.
The (semi) one word title, as usual, was one of mine. (As was the springboard, but more on that later.) It's appropriate both because of Griff's disappearance and because of the wartime setting. Although I don't know if they actually used the M.I.A. acronym as far back as WWII. I associate it with Vietnam. Does anyone else know?
Benny read the title and thought it said Mia. He has a friend named Mia, whose birthday party he had gone to earlier in the day. So the title required a bit of explaining.
INTO THE MYSTIC
This was one of my ideas that I really fell in love with. The idea that a magic shop never goes out of style. The idea that these gargoyles have been running this shop right in the midst of London's teeming humanity for a millenium. I just love the idea that you could stop by there in 1940 or 1996 or 1809 or 1776 or 1595 or whenever. Different gargoyles manning the store, of course. But the store itself largely remains the same. It's a place where Lennox Macduff and Will Shakespeare might have ended up after a night of carousing together.
My notion, which I've stated here before, is that the London Clan has an estate in the burbs, and that the shop helps fund them.
Responding to the guys line about the shopkeepers having "incredible" masks, Benny takes a good look at Una and says: "That's a unicorn. A real one."
And Erin: "Those aren't masks."
Of course, these kids have both seen the episode before. But it was so long ago and they were so young it's like they're seeing it for the first time.
We get some gorgeous shots of London. So gorgeous that when the animation on PENDRAGON came back weeks later looking not so good, we reused some of the "M.I.A." footage for that ep.
[Of course the animation here was done by Walt Disney Television Animation Japan, GARG's Best studio. It still kills me that Disney has shut down that unit. They did SUCH great stuff.]
Elisa talks to the Cabbie. In my mind, this Cabbie appears during the 1940 sequence as a little boy, running downstairs and into a bomb shelter with his sister. It's not important, but that's how I saw it.
And we explain (include) another legend. That of Gremlins. Not Gremlins from the Spielbergian movie. But gremlins that caused damage to airplanes during the war. This was/is a very famous legend among pilots. Roald Dahl (of Charlie and the Chocolate Factory fame) wrote a book about them, which Walt Disney himself optioned. Eisner once had us develop a tv series based on the idea. I handed it off to a couple of producers who COMPLETELY redeveloped the idea. They came up with a good show, but it was unrecognizable to Eisner. (It also had a toupee joke, which probably didn't go over well.) Anyway, he didn't buy it.
Actual racists thugs. We didn't do much of that. We usually went with anti-gargoyle types, who were metaphors for racists. But here we actually go with the real thing.
Their attack is very reminiscent of Awakening 3.
I love Brigitte's work here. Angela sounds like a tough warrior one minute, like a naive innocent the next. All within her character.
And that shot of Bronx leaping down from the roof is just gorgeous.
Leo and Una come out and confront Goliath, whose confusion is a lot of fun.
They're all in conflict, but everyone can agree with Elisa to take the argument inside...
We go inside and see the portrait of Griff.
Benny makes a connection: "There's a statue of him on the airplane."
I love Una's line: "I know my merchandise."
Throughout this episode, I think she comes across a bit like a junior Demona. I don't know if I felt that way at the time. But we have a female garg with sorcerous powers in denial about her own feelings of guilt and rewriting history to blame Goliath for things that were really not his fault.
Una was in love with Griff. And still is. But in the interrum, in my mind, she mated with Leo. She LOVES Leo. But she never got over being IN LOVE WITH Griff.
Two of them.
One is having Goliath black out and instead of using it as our act break, we just go to black, wait a beat and then come back. We had a much better act break coming up, so I guess I don't regret it, but I also don't like it much.
The other awkward moment is giving Goliath that voice over of his interior thoughts, where he states his plan to use the Gate to figure out what the hell happened in 1940. I'm sure I resisted doing that VO. But we just didn't have a better solution.
I do love Goliath's frustrated: "I don't know any Griff!" line.
G uses the gate and Benny asks "What did he just do?" Beth explains it to him, but it illustrates my point that it has been so long since the kids last saw an ep, that their memories of the show are very vague.
We meet Clive and Douglas Bader. I've stated this before, but Douglas Bader was a real person. A true war hero. Douglas Bader lost both his legs in a plane crash, and became a war hero and fighter ace AFTER he recovered and learned to walk on two artificial pins. He was a hero during the Battle of Britain. Later, he was shot down over enemy territory and put in a POW camp. He escaped twice but was recaptured both times. Years later, he was knighted.
I met him once. My father, Wally Weisman, is a real Spitfire afficionado, and Bader was one of his heroes. My dad eventually met Sir Douglas in London and at the RAF Museum outside London. When I was a kid, Sir Douglas and his wife came to Los Angeles and we all went to Disneyland together. He never used a wheelchair. Always just moved along with his hip-swinging walk. An amazing man.
So there was no way I wasn't going to pay tribute to him here (and indirectly to my father as well -- in my mind, this ep is dedicated to my dad). I gave Gary Sperling the Bader biography, "REACH FOR THE SKIES," knowing that it would be tough for him to incorporate much into the episode. But we tried to base the design of Bader on one of his photographs. And we made sure that his first and last name were both used in dialogue so that he could be indentified by those paying attention.
And most of all, we tried to show that these pilots were the true heroes. Sure, Goliath and Griff save them. But Bader saves the gargoyles too, and he's the one who takes out the most dangerous of the Nazi fighter pilots.
This was important to me. Influenced by both Dahl's Gremlins book and my father and Bader, I'd wanted to do a Battle of Britain story pretty much since the series' inception. It's even listed in the bible. This came out of the notion we once had that (while the other gargoyles may have been asleep for a thousand years) Goliath had been awake and alone for 1000 years.
Imagine, if you will, that scene in Awakening-2, when Goliath comes back and finds Hudson, Bronx and the Trio asleep. Instead of joining them, he watches over them for a millenium. (This was back when we had a more magical view of Garg biology.) I thought Goliath would have largely spent a thousand years brooding. But that during WWII he might have ventured forth to fight the Nazis, if for no other reason than to prevent the bombing of Wyvern.
We, obviously, didn't end up going that way, but the visual of Gargoyles fighting in the Battle of Britain stuck with me. (And man, is that visual brought to life here beautifully.)
But having decided to do that, I didn't want to give the gargs all the credit. Real men and women gave their lives during the Battle of Britain. I didn't want to undercut their contribution in order to make my fictional gargs look good. That just seemed like it would be both irresponsible and disrespectful. A betrayal of the very reasons why we were doing the ep in the first place.
Casting... we had used Neil Dickson to tremendous evil effect as Duncan and Canmore in City of Stone. Here he gets to play Errol Flynn. Neil is a Brit. As is Charles Shaugnessy who played Bader and Sara Douglas who played Una. (Leo/Gregg Berger, on the other hand, is a Yank.) And they all really brought life to their respective roles. I have to admit I was worried about whether Neil would be right for the role. I should no better, but Duncan especially was so memorable, I really had that fixed in my head. But Neil's voice just worked perfectly for Griff. I'm still sorry we didn't get to see more of Griff with King Arthur in the Pendragon spin-off.
Griff was conceived as a real swashbuckling hero. A Robin Hood of the 1940s. As opposed to our rough-hewn "Scottish stock", this was a good-old-fashioned patriotic English Hero to put up against the Nazis. His costume was influenced, I think by the Blackhawks. And his look was inspired by British Heraldry. He was the Griffin to Una's unicorn and Leo's lion, three of the most striking heraldic beasts. Again, going back to my earliest development of the series, I thought that adaptations of heraldic beasts might be the English version of gargoyles. So Griff has Eagle and Lion qualities. Feathered wings. A mohawk-like main. An eagle-like beak, but lionesque limbs.
I know that Greg Guler, Frank Paur and I went over and over Griff's model. We were never 100% satisfied with it. But it must work, as I've never any complaints from the fan. And I think Neil (and Jamie Thomason's voice direction) deserve much of the credit for that. Because even with the great Japanese animation, he still looks a bit too Foghorn Leghorn for my tastes.
Goliath (after Griff saves his life): "It was supposed to work the other way."
Erin: "I think this is how it started in the first place."
So, hey, she got it!!
Benny even jumped ahead, figuring out: "So he can take Griff back forward in time."
So he got it too. Did you guys get it right from the beginning? That Goliath would take Griff "back forward" to the present to reunite him with Leo and Una?
I love the scene between Griff, Leo, Una and Goliath over tea in the shop. Everyone's motivations are so clear that I often use this scene when I do voice seminars.
Griff wants to sell everyone on going on the offensive.
Leo wants to sell everyone on sticking with defense.
Una is more subtle. She'll use any argument that will promote Griff's safety.
Goliath is trying to stay out of trouble.
But I love his line: "In my experience, human problems become Gargoyle problems." How true... (witness the cancellation of the show...)
And then later, Goliath AGAIN realizes a lesson that he and the audience would have to relearn again and again. Fate cannot be cheated. History cannot be changed.
And once again, we show our lack of imagination and/or our desire to stick with something once we find it works by using the line "Not where, when."
We can say "1940" but we were discouraged from referring to the present by an actual year -- so that reruns would still sound current. I'm surprised that Goliath got to use the phrase "the 1990s". How short-sighted of Disney to not think we'd still be airing these reruns in the 21st Century. Not that I'm complaining, mind you.
Griff almost gets hit by a car in the present and Goliath says "Let's not start that again." A mini-tribute to the English Vultures in "A Jungle Book".
At the very end, Elisa's confusion is fun: "Just explain it one more time." That probably came out of my fear that the audience might not get it. If Elisa didn't get it either, the audience wouldn't have to feel so bad about it.
Everything I could have asked for.
I have a VERY vague memory that we were discouraged from using Swastikas. I can't remember why or even if this is true.
But the skull-like pilot with the skull & crossbones on his plane certainly looks like a bad guy, doesn't he?
The planes themselves just look great. I found out later that Bader didn't fly Spitfires during the Battle of Britain. He flew Spitfires later, but flew Hurricanes during the Blitz. This fact drives me crazy.
But I love his line about the Gargoyles (which in my mind, he viewed as Gremlins): "They're real, and they're on our side!"
Benny noticed that they shot a hole through Goliath's wing. I had to reassure him that he'd be okay after getting some stone sleep.
Parachutes. No one dies in this episode. At least not in theory. Of course, we KNOW people died during the Blitz. But we couldn't show or even imply that.
THE WORLD TOUR
We end of course by creating new heroes out of old. Griff has returned. And Leo and Una have been reinvigorated. They take back their neighborhood.
Leo: "Or we'll make it our business." Leo's spent years worried only about business. Now he remembers what his business is supposed to be. The nation of shopkeepers is once again ready to defend the realm. So to speak.
Anyway, that's my ramble. Where's yours?
In Arthurian lore, Arthur Pendragon is generally born because his biological father, Uther Pendragon, took on the form of Gorlois, the Duke of Cornwall and the first husband of Igraine, Arthur's biological mother. Uther was transformed through the magic of Merlin to appear as Gorlois, and essentially sexually assaulted Igraine by tricking her into taking him into her bed.
Given the moral focus that often is found in animated series, how would you have handled the situation surrounding the birth of Arthur Pendragon and Merlin's part in the events.
I'm not revealing this at this time, though if you attended Gathering 2002 or 2003 you may have noticed a VERY indirect clue.
(The above is in itself a HUGE clue).
Geoffery of Monmouth states that Mordred was the son of Lot and Anna (Arthur's sister), and Arthur Pendragon's nephew. Sir Thomas Malory later expanded upon the story, having Mordred be the son of Arthur and his sister Anna (now Anna Morgause, Arthur's half-sister) through an incestuous tryst. This created the idea that Mordred was both the son and nephew of Arthur, and both his eventual heir and ultimate nemesis.
I read that you had intended Mordred to be the son of Arthur and Morgause, but was he conceived through an incestuous relationship, or given the moral focus that often is found in animated series, is their another explanation?
If the answer for the above question is that Mordred is not the product of incest, than is he the biological son of Lot and Morgause, yet have some special paternal bond with Arthur (ie. godfather or such)?
I don't see me changing one of the fundamental relationships of the legends, i.e. Mordred being Arthur's illegit son by his half-sister. Assuming it was televised, I don't see me dwelling on the incest angle, but I wouldn't have contradicted it either.
Todd sent the following to me in response to my request for a quick info fix...
I hope that you don't mind me e-mailing you directly about Roger Lancelyn Green, but I thought that this was the quickest way
of getting the information to you (given the length of the queue and the fact that I know that you don't dare read much of the
comment room because many of the people there post "creativity demons" there).
At any rate, you're correct about the spelling: it is Roger Lancelyn Green. The title of the book is "King Arthur and his Knights
of the Round Table".
1. Is Blanchefleur an original character on your part, or is she in any other older Arthurian Legends?
2. If she is in other stories, in what ways dose she vary, or stays the same as what you have planned for your version? Is she always Persival's wife?
3. If she is in other stories, do you know what books I might find reference to her in? What books I might find reference to her in?
1. She's a character from Arthurian legend. The eventual wife of Sir Percival.
2. Uh... she becomes Percival's wife at the end of the grail quest. I just extrapolate from there.
3. The first one that comes to mind is Roger Lancelyn Green's book on King Arthur. Having said that, I'm not sure of the exact title or the exact spelling of Green's name. I don't have the book in front of me. (Todd, I know you and Lord Sloth are both comment room regulars. Maybe you could help me out with the spelling and title both here and in the comment room. Thanks.)
In "A Lighthouse in the Sea of Time", when Macbeth starts reading the Scrolls of Merlin out loud, the part that he's reading is about Merlin's first encounter with the young Arthur and his impressions of the future king. Something that I've occasionally wondered over is that this does seem a bit late in Merlin's life to begin his autobiography, considering how many things had already happened to him (according to traditional legend), prior to his becoming Arthur's tutor (such as his boyhood encounter with Vortigern and the ensuing battle between the dragons, becoming involved with Stonehenge, helping to bring about Uther and Igraine's meeting and Arthur's subsequent conception at Tintagel, etc.). Were the Scrolls really only a partial autobiography, beginning relatively late in Merlin's life and career? (Which, if so, is a bit of a pity, but even an incomplete autobiography's better than nothing).
There are at least two obvious possibilities.
One: That it was not an autobiography (despite what Macbeth may have said at the spur of the moment) but a history of Merlin's time with Arthur.
Two: That it opened with a reference to what even at the time Merlin must have known was the most significant thing to happen in his life. And that after the intro, he would eventually start at the beginning.
I'm not going to make that call at this time. But I'm hoping it's the latter.
Was arthur's alliance with gargoyles an extrapolation of Gargoyles being used on coat of arms?
You've mentioned how, in the Gargoyles Universe, you see Excalibur and the Sword in the Stone as being one and the same. One thing that I found myself wondering lately was whether you'd ever worked out a plan to reconcile these two different accounts of how King Arthur got his sword.
After all, the "Lady of the Lake" account of how Arthur received Excalibur portrays him as receiving it from her some time after he became King via the Sword in the Stone, so that if Excalibur was the Sword in the Stone, he would already have it by the time that he met her. (Of course, as I recall, the movie "Excalibur" did manage to reconcile the two different versions by having Excalibur be broken under the strain when Arthur used it to defeat Lancelot and then being briefly returned to the Lady of the Lake, who restores it and gives it back to Arthur).
Of course, if you've managed to find a solution yet, you're probably choosing (and understandably so) to keep it secret for now to be saved for the possible future occasion that you get to do the "Pendragon" spin-off, but I was still wondering if you'd ever come up with a way to reconcile the two different origin-stories, seeing that you treat them as both true in the Gargoyles Universe.
Well, I kinda believe (generally) in consolidation. So, for example, the Stone of Destiny is also the stone from the Sword in the Stone. The Weird Sisters are Fates, Graces and Furies, etc.
So, yes, I see Excalibur and the Sword in the Stone as being one and the same in the Gargoyles Universe. As to the exact how, well, I'd tend to follow the lead of the movie "Excalibur," probably. But I'll admit, I haven't given the specifics much thought.
Does alex or merlin have enough fay blood in them to mate with non-compatible species?
I'm really not sure I understand the question.
If they transform into another species than they can mate. They have enough "fay blood" to theoretically transform, but it also requires extensive training. And more training for them than for the average Child of Oberon.
Does Duval still remember Arthur?
1.In which series did you plan to introduce Castle Carbonek?
Well, really intro it in Pendragon, though it might appear in any of them.
1. In Pendragon since Griff, Arthur and Merlin have been out of circulation was Blanchefleur introduced as their guide in the modern world?
2.Will Arthur meet any character we meet in the World Tour?
If so care to give a few names?
1. Not really, though she may be useful in that function.
2. Yes and no.
1.Who traded Morgana for Nimue?
I'm not telling at this time.
1.Who is Morgana Le Fay's BIOLOGICAL mother?
2.Have we met her?
I'm not telling at this time.
1.Who is Morgana Le Fay's BIOLOGICAL father?
2.Have we met him?
3.If not do you plan to introduce him into the show?
I'm not telling at this time.
Who created the stone dragon in the episode Pendragon?
I'm not telling. See previous post as to why.
Who created the iron knights that guarded the Hollow Hill?
You mean who forged the armor? Cause I have no idea.
If you mean who enchanted the armor, that's a different question, and I know the answer to that, (and if you take a look at the Pendragon archive... you could probably figure it out), but I'm not in the mood to tell you.
General note, no offense, but I'm less likely to reveal info to an "Anonymous" poster. I'm more likely to reveal stuff to someone who I've gotten to know -- either at one of the Gatherings or through consistent intelligent posts. Just a fact of life.
A question that suddenly occurred to me about "Lighthouse in the Sea of Time". When Macbeth mentions how Merlin's magic was "stronger than everything, except the human heart.", I think that we easily recognize it as a reference to the Arthur-Guinevere-Lancelot triangle.
But I suddenly found myself wondering if Merlin's entrapment by Nimue is also alluded to there. After all, the traditional way that Merlin's imprisonment by Nimue is handled in the legends is as Merlin's magic and wisdom proving no match for his love - or infatuation - for Nimue. Did you have that in mind as well where that line of Macbeth's was concerned?
Yes. All of the above, plus more. (Including Arthur's love for Mordred, Gawain's love of his brothers, etc.)
Something that I've occasionally wondered about "Pendragon". Unlike the rest of the spin-offs (except maybe "New Olympians", which had connections to Greek mythology in its core concept in that the New Olympians are descended from the gods and monsters of classical myth), which were primarily based on the elements of the Gargoyles Universe ("Dark Ages" and "Gargoyles 2198" with the Wyvern clan's past and future, "Timedancer" with Brooklyn, and "Bad Guys" with some of the gargoyles' former antagonists), "Pendragon" appears based more on a "pre-existing mythology" (the Arthurian cycle), involving the return of King Arthur to the modern world. Of the five major characters that we know of in the projected spin-off (Arthur, Griff, Blanchefleur, Merlin, and Duval/Percival), all of them except for Griff are figures from the legend (though Percival is here the head of the Illuminati, a "Gargoyles" rather than Arthurian element). We do know that Griff would probably have stuck around as one of Arthur's knights for the duration of the series (and of their lives), and that a gargoyle clan would spring up at New Camelot when Arthur finally founds it (though I doubt that that would happen for a good long while in the spin-off if it had ever been made), but aside from that, the focus seems more on the Arthurian survivors (though we don't know as yet how large a role you'd planned for the other four survivors - the Lady of the Lake, Morgana, Nimue, and the Green Knight - in the series).
Did you primarily imagine "Pendragon" as more of a "return of Arthur" story that simply happened to be set in the Gargoyles Universe, or would "Gargoyles Universe" elements (as in, elements specifically created in the series, such as the gargoyles) have played about an equal role with the Arthurian aspects of it?
I don't have a quota in mind. But I guess the answer is both.
Certainly, it was a "Return of the King" story set in the present of the Gargoyles Universe.
But I think one of the strengths of the Gargoyles Universe is its interconnectivity. So elements, like the Illuminati, the Gargoyles and Macbeth would have definitely entered into stories of the Questing Beast and the Holy Grail, and vice versa, etc.
In you mind did Merlin have any particular religion back in medeival times. I ask this because many books and movies say he was a druid, but many others said he was a Cristian.
I don't see him as either, per se. Though influenced by both.
What is your opinion of Arthur Pendragon's legacy in the gargoyles universe before he re-awakened?
What is your opinion of Arthur Pendragon's legacy after he really died in the gargoyles universe?
1. Uh... I'm in favor of it?
2. Okay, let me just admit I don't understand the question.
What does Merlin, Blanchefleur and Duval look like in 1997?
I think I'll reserve comment on this, since I wouldn't want to needlessly tie the hands of any artist who might someday get to draw them, should the opportunity arise. I have some definite ideas, but none I'm ready to reveal at this time.
Since I read the archive and didn't see any mention of this, I'd thought I ask these two questions:
1)Did Arthur Pendragon have an alliance with the London clan before he was taken to Avalon?
2)If so, did any written/non-oral records of that alliance surive to 1996?
1. Gargoyles played a major roll in Arthurian "History" in the gargoyles universe. I'm not ready to be more specific at this time.
2. Well, there's the Scrolls of Merlin just for starters. And I'd imagine that the London Clan managed to preserve some cool things.
when Arthur begins his quest for Excalibur and to find Merlin, how does he know if Merlin is still alive or if Excalibur still exists? are Excalibur and Merlin so powerful that they will always be around?
He certainly thinks so.
Who inserted excalibur into the stone?
Time to Ramble...
This third part of the tryptich, was designed to be a kick-ass battle. Lots of action, lots of excitement. All (or nearly all) the pipe had already been laid out. We had two of our toughest mortal villains (Demona and Macbeth) working with the mysterious and powerful Weird Sisters and the MEGA Archmage Plus, who possessed the power of Gate, Book and Eye. That seemed like some real competition for our good guys, who had wounded to protect.
It was time to go to war.
A few other soldiers:
Director: Dennis Woodyard
Story Editor: Brynne Chandler Reaves
Writer: Lydia C. Marano
As the main titles were playing and Keith was narrating, my seven-year-old daughter Erin mentioned that Goliath and Darth Vader both do voices for phone companies.
Erin also figured out that Angela and Gabriel were being stalked by Demona, before she actually came on screen.
Goliath says it like a curse word when he realizes that A&G are being followed. That was how I wanted to use it. As I've mentioned before, the art staff eventually threatened a coup if I didn't drop it.
But if I ever get to do Gargoyles 2198, I'm bringing it back. That's a threat, not a promise.
Anyway, Goliath attempts to appeal to Demona and Macbeth's better natures. It starts to work, but it's too late. The Archmage has a good line: "They are my creatures now."
Then Bronx and Boudicca attack, saving our 'goyles. This was hinted at in Part Two. And clarified later when Angela comments on it. But it also was my way of serving notice that Bronx was no longer going to be the puppy-most-left-behind. The World Tour was his coming out party.
Anyway, the Archmage now changes his plan. Not because he doesn't want to take any chances, but really because his sensibilities have been offended. He has another good line: "If they are so eager to die..."
But it's really that balance I was trying to maintain between his newfound ultimate power and his original clichéd origins.
HUNTING HOLLOW HILLS
Elisa asks about the Sleeping King. The Magus says he's been sleeping in his Hollow Hill. More hints as to who the king was. (If the name Avalon wasn't hint enough.)
On the way, Elisa pumps Magus for information like he was in the interrogation room back home. She already guessed that he had a thing for Katharine. She wants the lowdown. It's really not her business. Call it a habit of her profession.
(There's an animation error on my tape, which I hope was corrected for later airings. When the Magus starts to narrate the flashback, both his and Elisa's mouth are moving, mouthing the same lines. Obviously, Elisa's animator misread the X-sheets and thought she was talking instead of the Magus.)
(Of course there's another semi-error which I've tried to explain away in the past. The lighting on the scene where Katharine and Tom play with the baby-gargs Angela, Gabe and Boudicca seems very daylight. I've always claimed that it was just a very bright moonlit night. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.)
This last flashback got my five year old son Benny talking. He asked "How did the gargoyles even get born?" And had to be reminded about the eggs from Part One (which we saw three weeks ago). "Oh, yeah," he said.
Then when we got to the Sleeping King, he compared that to a character that's on his radar: The sleeping MATA NUI from Bionicle.
The Magus uses magic, explaining that "magic is the lifeblood of Avalon." This seemed logical to me. That a practioner like the Magus could train himself to access that ambient magic -- but at a price.
My wife Beth was very impressed with Jeff Bennett's performance here. As a change of pace, Jeff was only playing one character -- as opposed to his usual fifty. But it was a truly heartbreaking performance, I think.
And I have to ask, given the Magus' first appearance in "Awakening, Part One", did you guys ever think that you could or would find that character this appealing, this sympathetic? I think that our ability to allow characters to grow and change was one of the hallmarks of our series. And I had the backbone of his change planned as early as "Awakening, Part Two": (1) his love for Katharine which is unequivocal and (2) his guilt over what he did to the gargoyles, which he never tries to dodge or make excuses for in any way.
The Leap of Faith. It does seem too Indiana Jones now. But obviously it must not have at the time. Either that or we were kidding ourselves. Still, I like Elisa here a lot.
The Platform lowers on cue and Elisa finally names the Sleeping King: "Arthur Pendragon, King of All Britain... You are needed." We wanted to keep it simple. That simple. I also wanted to begin establishing the name Pendragon. Everyone's heard of King Arthur. But you have to have had a bit of exposure to the legends to be familiar with the Pendragon name. I always thought it was cool. And I think that even then I had the notion of using it as the title for a spin-off.
Anyway, we get back to the Palace, and Elisa states a fact that I wonder if anyone had focused on before (regarding Demona and Macbeth): "You've never actually beaten either of them." Goliath agrees: "Simply foiled their plans or fought them to a stand still.
And then Arthur asks: "What's going on?" which I always thought was kind of funny. They're counting on him to help save the day. He doesn't even know the set up.
So while we get him up to speed, we cut to the Archmage who orders the Sisters to "Dispatch the Sleeping King." Erin smiles and says,, "What they don't know..." is that it's too late. But what I found interesting is that Erin actually did trail off. She knew that she didn't need to state what they didn't know. Cool.
DIVIDING THE TROOPS
True to Elisa's hopes (and my interpretation of the character of legend) Arthur in fact does immediately take charge.
He'll go with Elisa, Tom and Gabe to fight Demona & Macbeth.
Katharine, Bronx and Boudicca will guard the wounded 'eggs'. (Katharine has one of her bookend tough mom statements here: "They'll not harm my eggs again!")
Goliath and Angela will attack the Archmage.
And the Magus agrees to take on the Sisters.
Eventually -- after Art figures out that Demona feels Mac's pain and Demona establishes that she and Mac need to put distance between them to minimize the link -- things change a bit and Arthur faces Mac one-on-one, while Kathy, Bronx, Boudicca, Ophelia, Elisa, Tom and Gabe all team up to battle Demona -- who as always, may present the greatest threat of all, even when it's against her own interests.
All this seemed very appropriate to me. I like how the battle divides up. How the opponents match up. And you'll notice at the cliffhanger/commercial break that every one of our battles is going badly for the good guys. Macbeth seems to have the upper hand over Arthur. The Archmage has Goliath down. The Weird Sisters are clearly overpowering the Magus and even Demona is on the verge of wiping out all her opposition at the Palace.
KING ARTHUR PENDRAGON vs. MACBETH
We gave Arthur a mace, because I didn't want anyone to think that some random sword he was carrying might be Excalibur.
When Arthur says, "What manner of magic is this?" it made me wish we had just gone ahead and said "What sorcery is this?" like we usually did.
There's some fairly effective slo-mo animation in here. Slow motion in animation (when called for in scripts) usually makes me nervous. If not done well, it can just look like a poorly-timed, poorly-animated scene. But here it seems to work.
I like how the battle ends. Arthur takes the sword fragment, and for a second, it looks like he's going to skewer Mac. But instead he uses it to pin Mac to a tree. Setting him up for Arthur's punch into camera with his ringed fist. Disney S&P let us do that. ABC S&P didn't allow those kind of fist coming into camera shots on Goliath Chronicles. But I wasn't informed of the change in policy until after "The Journey" was animated.
PRINCESS KATHARINE, OPHELIA, BRONX, BOUDICCA, GABRIEL, THE GUARDIAN & ELISA MAZA vs. DEMONA
Ophelia gets another nice moment here, as even injured, she attempts to stop Demona.
Elisa again takes advantage of the fact that she knows that Demona's hatred for her is so extreme and irrational, that she'll literally drop her weapon for the chance to grapple with Elisa, the chance to tear her apart with her bare hands.
Of course, this is after Elisa demonstrates that she never carries enough ammo. After uselessly shooting at a beach and a hollow suit of armor, she's out of bullets by the time she gets a target of flesh and blood. Of course, we made Elisa a touch dopey in this department for S&P reasons. Elisa, being a NY cop, had to carry a gun. But short of doing an episode about gun violence like "Deadly Force" (which Toon Disney refuses to air these days), we couldn't actually let Elisa shoot anyone with her gun. So we found other uses and excuses.
But ultimately, it's Katharine who brings Demona down, looking quite intentionally like a medieval Ripley, saying the other bookend: "No one threatens my eggs."
THE MAGUS vs. PHOEBE, SELINE & LUNA: THE WEIRD SISTERS
Luna says to the Magus: "There is no future for you." That was a clue from the voice of fate. Anyone pick up on it?
I also like how all the Sisters say together: "You will suffer!" But of course, he's been suffering for decades. What he will soon be is free of all suffering...
I wanted to show here (among other things) that magic itself was neither good nor evil. Magic simply existed at the disposal of those with the power to wield it.
The Magus defeats the sisters and collapses onto Artie's platform. Erin asked quietly: "Did he die?" Benny looked for another way out: "He might have just lost his power."
GOLIATH & ANGELA vs. THE ARCHMAGE
Erin asked what the Archmage was planning for Goliath... and I had to answer something like "a painful death."
Goliath asks what I thought many of you might be asking: why doesn't the Magus just kill him. And David Warner answers as only he could: "Because I'm having too much fun."
We have all this Gate-Jumping. This was an afterthought. Because at one point I had thought of having our guys steal the gate back, I had forgotten to have the Archmage use the gate in the script. So at the board stage, I asked Dennis to put this in. We were very tight for time, but he obliged me. Ideally, I'd have liked to show them briefly in some other times, but I knew we just couldn't afford to design new layouts for two second shots. Even so, who knows where and when they went? Who knows how long they were gone? Sometimes their poses changed. But Goliath is like the Old Man of the Sea. He never lets go. And finally he takes the Eye away.
The Archmage is already in trouble, but how much he doesn't know for a few seconds. Then the power of the Grimorum destroys him from within. A nice creepy companion to him eating the book in Part Two.
And I love David's last line, the forlorn: "All my lovely magic..." Believe it or not, I had to fight a little to get that line in. Just a little. But still.
DEATH OF A HERO
The Magus' death stll moves me. His quiet desire for rest. Katharine's love for him. (Not romantic love, but love nonetheless.) K: "Oh, Magus, what have you done?"
The Magus still concerned that he owes a debt to Goliath and Goliath's forgiveness. The eyes closing and the star shooting overhead.
For S&P reasons, we decided not to make it absolute that he was dead. No one mentions death. Just rest. Sleep. And he is lying on the Sleeping King's platform by his own request.
And many fans, even adult fans, chose to believe he might still come back someday. Hey, more power to 'em, I guess.
But I felt/feel that would cheapen the moment. Cheapen the sacrifice. We sent our heroes into battle. And in battle, their are casualties. Some things are worth fighting for, but if we don't understand costs, then I want people to know that when something isn't worth fighting over, they shouldn't.
For various reasons, many of our voice actors in this episode recorded their lines separately. So we recorded each character saying goodbye to everyother character. Not knowing exactly what we would use. We, in my opinion, wound up using too much of these wild goodbyes. It's very awkward sounding to me now.
Gabe & Goliath establish why Gabe and his clan don't join Goliath in Manhattan and why Goliath doesn't bring his clan back to Avalon. Though both clans are born of the old Wyvern Clan, both have found new homes, which they will not abandon.
But Angela has a bit of Demona in her. The iconoclast, she wants more than normal clan life has to offer. She wants to see the world with Goliath. He proudly agrees. He wants one of his children with him. Gabriel and Angela say goodbye. He refers to her here as his rookery sister (not as his "Angel of the Night" or some other equivalent). This was done to make clear that they regarded each other as brother and sister, not mates. I basically wanted to leave her unattached for the Trio. Nevertheless, many fans still thought that they were a couple.
Art goes off on his own to be less conspicuous, and Goliath laughs a borderline Thailog laugh. He also plants pipe for Arthur's eventual stop in Manhattan.
Mac & Demona are freed from the spell, leaving them with no memory since they were first ensorcelled. There's an awkward bit of business here as the gargs who were guarding them move away, just so that Goliath can move in and push the skiff off. Flaw in the boarding that no one caught, I'm afraid.
The Sisters move off, having been forced off-camera to explain most everything.
Bronx & Boudicca part. Now that's a couple.
More pipe: Goliath swears that no one will ever use the eye or the Gate again. Famous last words.
Tom: "Elisa, I thought you understood. Avalon doesn't send you where you want to go! Avalon sends you where you need to be!"
Both Elisa and Erin said: What does that mean? at about the same time.
What did you think when you first heard that? We had officially launched the World Tour, but you didn't know it yet. What were you thinking?
Anyway, that's my ramble. Where's yours...?
Time to Ramble...
Director: Dennis Woodyard
Writer: Lydia Marano
Story Editor: Brynne Chandler Reaves
I guess you guys were used to longer multi-parters from us, so you probably didn't think this was the last part when you saw Part Two come up after the title. I tried something different at the end though. Instead of writing "To be continued" I had them put down "To be concluded". It seemed (at least in my head) to increase tension to know that the next part would be the last.
I've been told by people that out of context, this episode is incomprehensible. I hope it's not quite that bad, but I will say that unlike the rest of our eps, I felt that multi-parter eps don't quite need to stand alone in the same way.
Still with all the time travel stuff, it's very complex. I remember Lydia having to come into my office after her first draft and needing me to diagram the time travel for her. The loop that the Archmage takes. I love it. But I guess it's not that easy to follow.
Anyway, this ep was designed to be the second part of a tryptich. This is the one where we focus on our villains and bring them all up to date, just as in part one, we focused on our heroes. All gearing to a MAJOR BATTLE coming in Part Three.
Picking up where Part One left off, Elisa looks at Angela, Gabriel and Boudicca and says: "These are the eggs?" I love her tone there.
Guardian: "Sorry, I always call them that." It was a cheat to buy us, at least with some percentage of our audience, the shock value of expecting eggs and finding fully grown gargs and beasts instead. Still, I believe that a guy like Tom, dubbed "Guardian of the Eggs" would continue to use that term to refer to his kids, even after they are grown.
Goliath is initially shocked that the gargs have names. Angela says the standard human response: "How else would we tell each other apart?" This was done intentionally to both cover the issue of non-garg naming (which I still think is neat, but which is often a massive pain) and to indicate that these are gargs raised by humans.
So I'm in my office one day, after the script to "Avalon, Part Two" has gone final. And Supervising Producer Frank Paur and Producer/Director Dennis Woodyard come in. Frank hates the script. Dennis is calmer, but he seems to clearly agree with Frank, more or less.
I'm annoyed because it's VERY late in the game for them to be giving me these kind of notes. Things get heated between me and Frank.
I yell something like: "Well, what do you want me to do?!!!"
And he yells something like: "We need some action! Like a fight on the Beach with the Archmage!!"
And I start to object for about a second. Then I go, "Oh, yeah. A fight on the beach with the Archmage. That'd be cool. Would that fix it?"
And that was it. Our fights were always like that. We always only wanted to make it better. He'd get worked up, but the solution wound up being simple and when push came to shove (we never actually pushed and shoved by the way) we agreed on nearly everything.
It was also good to have Dennis' calming influence. Frank and I would go momentarily nutty and Dennis would always maintain.
So anyway, after the fact we added the memorable fight on the beach. Now I can't imagine the episode without it. It forced us to trim down some the Archmages travels (cause we were already long) but it definitely improved the episode.
I think, not sure, but I think I wrote that fight because it came so late in the game. It's also possible, I might have taken it back to Brynne and/or Lydia to write. I really don't remember anymore.
Either way, there are some great lines:
Goliath: "Don't be too insulted!" I love how he goes nuts here. We really get a reminder of his warrior-ness.
Archmage: "Don't crow too loudly, after all, what have you accomplished: you beat up a beach." You beat up a beach. That's one of my favorite lines in the whole series.
Archmage: "At dawn you all will die. Get used to it!"
Tom: "Let's get out of here before the very air attacks us!"
The fight itself is pretty cool too. I like how Bronx and Boudicca immediately team up. I like the symbolic nature of the Archmage growing wings, turning to stone and then shattering. I think that was a board-artist's addition. I don't remember seeing that in the script. (And I'm too lazy to stand up and check right now.)
At the end of the fight, my five year old son Benny asked: "Why can't they glide to the castle?" I had to explain the flight rules.
ANGELA & GABRIEL
Elisa slides up to Goliath: "Angela sort of looks like Demona, except her coloring is different. Exactly whose daughter is she?" Again, I love Salli's reading here. That need to know. The jealousy. The feeling for Goliath -- who dodges the question by saying that all children belong to the clan.
But of course Elisa knows. Knows something that I believe never occured to her before. Sure, she knew that Goliath and Demona had been mates, lovers. But she didn't let her mind traverse to the next logical step. Parents. Together. Goliath and Demona.
And of course, the audience knows it too, I hope. It was never meant to be a secret to anyone but Angela who her biological parents are. These lines also served to point that out.
On the other hand, we didn't make a big deal of Gabe's bio-parentage. But I wanted it to be semi-clear that his folks were Othello and Desdemona (Coldstone and Coldfire). Anyone get that at first viewing?
Everyone returns to Oberon's Palace. There are many injured and Gabe is apologetic. As Leader, he feels responsible. But there was 'never any need to hone our combat skills' before this.
Tom & Katharine are reunited. Elisa, the cop, picks up on the human dynamics, the relationships, immediately. She sees the Magus' reaction to their reunion.
I also really like the exchange between the Princess and Goliath.
K: "This is more than I could have hoped for."
G: "What you've done for the eggs is more than I could have dreamed of"
We kept dropping hints. He's mentioned by the Magus, but the conversation moves quickly on.
Later, the Weird Sisters mentioned him. The Archmage is surprised to hear he's not a myth, causing Seline to say her famous: "All things are true." line. The Archmages promise to kill the king later.
And Elisa brings the guy up at the end. This policy was me trying to play fair and make his awakening in Part Three not seem artificial. But also not to allow the guy to distract from the matter at hand.
Of course, most of THIS crowd must have known the s-king was a ref to KING ARTHUR. Particularly when the Hollow Hill ref was thrown in too. But did anyone not know on first viewing?
This was an episode for tying up Loose Ends in a big way. Solving some mysteries.
Why did the Weird Sisters do what they did? (At least objectively.)
Why were Demona and Macbeth working together in "High Noon"? (Elisa: "They hate each other." Guardian: "I saw no sign of that.")
And how did the Archmage survive?
Tom unwittingly hints at the truth when he says that the Archmage seemed to be able to be in two places at once.
Now let's reveal...
Wow! Did we get negative feedback from fans when we played the Sisters as villains here. Of course, I always had it in my head that the Sisters had three aspects. Grace, Vengeance and Fate. Sometimes one aspect is ascendent, but there is always a touch of all three in anything they do. But after the Sisters' Fateful appearances in "City of Stone", many fans rebelled at the notion that the objective reason they did all those things was for simple petty vengeance here in "Avalon". Oh, well.
[When Benny saw the Sisters for the first time, he said "Weird Sisters" with an interesting tone of awe. They're his favorites. But he didn't comment on them being bad guys here.]
The sisters have some nice lines...
L: "What is time to an immortal."
Phoebe: "This is true." (in ref to what cannot be broken can be bent).
Okay, this was just fun for me. In many ways the origin of much of this was the flat out talent of David Warner. He brought such life to the underwritten (and clichéd) part of the Archmage in "Long Way to Morning" that I just knew I'd have to bring him back. Many of the events of "Vows", "City of Stone", "High Noon" etc. were all geared toward bringing him back as a real THREAT!!
Yet with all this, I didn't want to forget the character's roots. We tried to set a balance between his clichés and his new power.
Think about it. The Archmage+ (as we called him in the script), had only been plussed for about a day. Still he's full of arrogance. His power hasn't raised him above that hybris nor above the thirst for vengeance nor above gloating or above impatience. That's his flaw, but also the fun, I think.
And of course, David. Wow.
Praise for Salli Richardson as Elisa. For Kath Soucie as Princess Katharine and all three Weird Sisters. For Frank Welker as Bronx and Boudicca.
But this Archmage stuff here is a tour de force, I think. David just went through, playing both characters. Both versions of himself. Keep in mind, he hadn't been privy to all that the writers had planned. He had come in for his small parts in both "Long Way" and "Vows". Now suddenly, he's this guy(s). Amazing.
"Do you know what to do?"
"I should. I watched you do it."
"Show some dignity."
"I could put you back where I found you."
"No, no." (I love that no, no. So tiny and fearful.)
"Not where. When."
"If you don't know, don't guess."
"The book must remain in play."
"Try to keep up."
"We're not doing her any favors."
"The rules that cannot be broken can surely be bent."
"Nine hundred and seventy-five YEARS??!!"
"I hadn't thought that far in advance."
"What am I supposed to do, eat it?!"
"Now I understand."
"As it did. As it must. As it always will!"
All great fun.
All these episodes were being produced simultaneously. All in various stages of production. So inconsistencies were bound to happen.
The Egg boats are messed up here. Demona's model in her flashback. Etc.
And storywise, what's the deal with Macbeth? I can see why the Archmage wants to include his former apprentice Demona in his plans. He felt betrayed by her, and is glad not to be doing her any favors by enslaving her.
Okay, it's not a true flaw. Macbeth is included because the 'plan of the Archmage' -- birthed whole from the timestream without the Archmage ever actually coming up with it independently (though he takes credit) -- included Macbeth.
It is the provence of Luna, not Seline, at work.
But still, I'd have liked to have been able to figure out some connection between the Archmage and Macbeth so that he wouldn't question the boy's inclusion. Thankfully, the Archmage+ is so arrogant, he takes credit and thus never questions. It occurs to me now, that I could have made a connection between Mac and his ancestors, all related to Katharine and Malcolm. Oh, well.
These became fun for me. Adding Captions indicating place and time is one of the very last steps in production. So I'm in there for the "On-Line" with Jeff Arthur, our post-production supervisor, and I'm just indulging...
Sure we start with...
"Scotland, 984 A.D."
But pretty soon we're at "YESTERDAY" and "SIX HOURS AGO" and "ONE MINUTE AGO" and finally "NOW".
It still makes me smile.
So the Archmage gets the eye. Power. But he's still an idiot. He needs wisdom. He eats the book, which I always thought was really creepy and cool. Now he understands. Now we truly have two Archmage+es. But they can't coexist forever. Aside from how complicated that would be to choreograph, and aside from the fact that the timestream needs the younger of the two to fulfill his role....
They also couldn't coexist because both are too arrogant.
So we repeat the scene of departure to close the circle and tack on: "Finally. I thought he'd never leave."
We get to see a new clan awake from stone. I hoped that was fun.
Ophelia appears (pre-injury). She looked way cool. For all those people who thought that Gabe and Angie were a couple, take a look at the way Gabe is holding Ophelia and looking at her after she's injured.
In addition to the Sleeping King, we were also laying pipe for our whole fourth tier WORLD TOUR. Tom says: "Avalon dropped me in your laps." He credits Avalon with sending him to Goliath.
The Magus declares that he is without magic and useless. Katharine rebels at that: "Don't say it, and don't think it!" She loves him. Just not the way he wanted her to love him.
Bronx and Boudicca want to go with Goliath.
Elisa asks about the Sleeping King...
And Goliath, Angela and Gabriel take off on a stealth attack.
And we immediately see that the Archmage knows they're coming.
As the Archmage says... "[We've layed all the damn pipe we could possibly need and more], Now the fun really begins!"
To be concluded...
And that's my ramble. Where's yours?
You pretty much already said this, but just to make sure,
Morgana is a fae and who was which with Nimue, a human, at birth, correct?
You mentioned that you could only recommend Isaac Asimov's book on Shakespeare (I assume that you mean his Guide to Shakespeare, which I have a copy of) with reservations. I was wondering if you could tell us a little more about those reservations of yours about it.
Boy, I must have been really touchy on September 10th.
Let me just say, it's weird to be looking at these questions, asked early in the morning of 9/11, clearly before the events of the day. (Or at least before people became aware of those events.) Puts everything into perspective, you know.
Anyway, Merlin and Oberon have a thorny relationship to say the least. I can't really answer your question in any more detail at this time. I half regret revealing that Oberon was M's dad.
You've mentioned earlier that Merlin isn't considered one of "Oberon's Children" (by which I mean the Third Race, rather than Oberon's biological offspring). I recently began wondering over the reason for that, i.e., what reasons Oberon has for not classifying him as such.
The only other "halflings" we know of in the Gargoyles Universe at present are Fox and Alex, and we know what criteria Oberon had for deciding whether they could be considered "Children of Oberon" or not. He viewed Fox as human rather than Third Race because she had shown no sign of manifesting any magic (at least, at the time of "The Gathering Part One") and Alex as Third Race because he still had the potential of developing magic.
Now, moving back to Merlin; he clearly did learn how to use magic, so obviously Oberon used a different criterion for classifying him as human rather than "Oberon's Children" than he did with Fox. So my question is, what is this different criterion?
(And don't worry; this isn't one of those "trying to trip you up questions" that you mentioned being unhappy with recently. I'm just genuinely curious about this).
Boy, I must have been really touchy on September 10th.
Let me just say, it's weird to be looking at these questions, asked early in the morning of 9/11, clearly before the events of the day. (Or at least before people became aware of those events.) Puts everything into perspective, you know.
Anyway, Merlin and Oberon have a thorny relationship to say the least. I can't really answer your question in any more detail at this time. I half regret revealing that Oberon was M's dad.
Hi, Greg, I just wanna say I love the show and I was wondering something---Titania had Fox by the human, Renard, but did Oberon have any flings with human women? Did he have any children by them? Thanks!
Is Merlin still in love with Nimue in 1996?
Is Merlin and Blanchefleur still around in 2198?
Will Arthur have any kids in the future?
Who will succeed Arthur as the ruler of New Camelot?
Did you really think I'd blithely give this away?
1.Does Xanatos know of Mr.Duval's immortality?
2.What about his identity as Sir Percival?
3.In 1996 of the eight arthurian survivors who among them know Percival is Duval?
4.Who else knows Duval's identity as Percival?
3. Two at least. No more than six.
4. I do. You seem too. Anyone else?
You said that in Castle Carbonek time passes differently so my question is how differently? A day in our world is an hour in Carbonek?
It's not an equation as with Avalon.
What extraordinary properties does Excalibur possess?
I'm holding on to that as well.
Why isn¡¯t Merlin, Oberon¡¯s own kid, considered a Child of Oberon? Why is Alex considered one?
Well, let's begin with this: Considered by whom?
Alex was considered to have the potential to be one by Oberon & Titania.
Merlin and Oberon have long-standing issues, but what makes you think that he isn't considered a Child of Oberon?
What was the original cast of Pendragon? I know the Magus and Arthur was there, but what about Griff? How did you reach the present cast of Arthur, Griff, Merlin and Blanchefleur? Did Griff come after the airing of MIA?
Calling it 'the original cast' isn't quite fair. I was brainstorming and briefly considered having the Magus survive and travel off with Arthur.
But by the time the idea for Pendragon (the spin-off series) solidified, I already knew that the Magus would make the ultimate sacrifice at Avalon and that in any case, I didn't need two magic users in the small group.
I knew early on I wanted Arthur and Griff and eventually Blanchfleur and Merlin. I knew I wanted Arthur to find Excalibur and then search for Merlin. I knew what I had planned for Blanchefleur and Percival/Duval. And yes, Griff turned out to be so much fun in MIA that I wanted to include him as well. But I can't put everything in a precise order for you. We were working on all these episodes (including Pendragon and MIA simultaneously). And the ideas were just coming to me then, fairly fast and furious.
But none of this came after the AIRING of MIA. Things aired LONG after the stories were written.
About a week ago in the Comment Room I asked about Arthur's stepbrother, Kay, and why he had not been mentioned in the TV movie "Mists of Avalon." I was just curious to ask would you make any notion to tell about Kay or any of Arthur's relatives in a Pendragon spinoff?
In flashback, at least, yes. I always was fond of Kay.
I meant his New Camelot knights not that of old Camelot.
Well, still, no.
Care to list the names of Arthur's knights?
All of them?
No, I do not care to do that.
(Do your own research, pal.)
Is Morgana at the Gathering on Avalon? What about Nimue?
One is. One isn't.
Was the number of the search for Merlin episodes suppose to be around the number of World Tour episodes?
I haven't quantified it at all.
Does Duval or the Illuminati know where Merlin is?
It seems from the answers that you've given that you don't have any plans for the Green Knight is my assumption true? If so why don't you have any plans for him?
I do have plans for him. Now.
I didn't when I first started that "Guess the Arthurian survivors" contest YEARS ago. Because, I had forgotten about him. But halfway through the contest I remembered him. And in the intervening years (YEARS) I've had plenty of time to figure out what to do with him.
Well, I'm not Todd, but in response to the history of Excalibur, Geoffrey of Monmouth's "Caliburn" is thought by some to be derived from the Welsh "Caledfwlch" (Breton "Kaledvoulc'h"), or from the Irish "Caladbolg" or "Caladcholg." Caledfwlch appears in several Welsh Arthurian stories, especially "Culhwch ac Olwen." Caladbolg, "hard dinter," was the lightning sword of Fergus Mac Roth. Caladcholg was a similar sword owned by Fergus Mac Leti. Various people have argued at one time or another that the modern idea of Excalibur was taken from one of these sources.
Who are Morgana's parents?
How can she beat Merlin? I mean Merlin is the son of Oberon who is one of the most powerful fay. Does that mean she also has a unique parentage like Merlin?
Who said she 'beat' him and what does that even mean?
What class of fay is Lady of the Lake? Power class?
This ain't an R-P game, my friend.
Does the Lady of the Lake have any biological children? Have you mentioned the name of any of her children on Askgreg?
YOu are now officially making me sleepy.
Don't let the death of Team Atlantis get you down, true brilliance is never recognized in its own time.
Anyway, I was wondering about your personal opinion on something: pop Arthurian Legend. First there was the "Merlin" miniseries, now there's another one on TNT called "The Mists of Avalon." Both take the traditional story of King Arthur and try to present its elements of magic to contemporary TV audiences in the guise of religion. Instead of accepting magic as a part of the legend, which I guess TV execs think is too "silly" or maybe even "controversial," they turn the Arthur legend into a morality tale about the old verse the new, Paganism verse Christianity, imagination verse logic, etc... take your pick.
What's your take? Do you think this is a constructive and innovative approach to telling the story, or a distracting and childish one?
Well, I haven't seen Mists and have only seen pieces of Merlin. So I can't judge either series.
I think you tip your hand on your opinion, however.
In and of itself, the approach has some potential. It's about execution. And the ideas aren't mutually exclusive. Look at EXCALIBUR (the movie). It has elements of both approaches, and I think it's wonderful. (Just saw it again recently. It really holds up.)
One question which I'll confess I've occasionally found myself asking about Arthur's quest for Merlin. Why does Arthur feel that he really needs Merlin by his side again? After all, in the traditional legends, he spent the majority of his reign without Merlin being there (Merlin's departure in the "Arthurian canon" took place almost directly after Arthur married Guinevere and set up the knights of the Round Table), and fared well enough on his own (not to mention that I don't think that Merlin could have seriously prevented the fall of Camelot even if he had been there, seeing that it was brought about through the one thing that his magic could not overcome, the human heart, as Macbeth pointed out in "A Lighthouse in the Sea of Time"). Furthermore, at least some versions of the legend (including T. H. White and Roger Lancelyn Green) indicate that part of the reason why Merlin left Arthur's court (ultimately to wind up in the Crystal Cave) was because Arthur needed to stand on his own rather than constantly leaning on the wizard for help.
So why does Arthur feel that he still needs Merlin's help? (Admittedly, he does seem in a rather vulnerable situation at present, given that he's now in a world that's unfamiliar to him and very different from 6th century Britain - and he hasn't had the advantage that Macbeth had of being able to watch it change gradually and adjust accordingly - it's all been thrown upon him at once, just the way that it was on Goliath and his clan).
Well, start with this. Merlin's a friend.
Do you really need any other reason?
Some of the other stuff you mentioned is good too.
Do you imagine New Camelot being anything like the Savage Land in Marvel Comics (though taking its "echoes of the past" element from the mythical Arthurian Age of Chivalry than from the Mesozoic, obviously)?
New Camelot? No.
I've been hearing a lot of someone called Nimue, who is she? sorry if this question been asked, but I haven't seen it in the archives
Then you haven't looked in the Pendragon section.
Or read much of anything on the legends of King Arthur.
Nimue comes directly from that mythology.
Have you ever read "Camelot 3000"?
Yes. In fact, I worked at DC Comics when/while it was being produced (over I believe a two year or more period).
You've mentioned before that one of your favorite Arthurian works, and one which you've used quite a bit as a "primary source" (it clearly was at least a major influence for your handling of Percival and Blanchefleur) was Roger Lancelyn Green's "King Arthur". Have you ever read any of R. L. Green's other rehandlings of myths and legends (he wrote one on Greek mythology, "Heroes of Greece and Troy", one on Norse mythology, "Myths of the Norsemen", and one on Robin Hood)?
I have FOUND a copy of Green's Greek Myth book, but haven't had the time to read it yet. Haven't found the other two you mentioned. Some day.
I just noticed a question you answered concerning Duval/Percival. If I had not seen the two names adjacent to one another I would never have seen any potential connection. I know that the name Percival is derived from parsi - fal or "pure fool."
I have no idea what Duval means, although I now see the structural similarity in the name.
I also have absolutely no recollection of these characters from your story. I only know the names from the context of Arthurian legend.
I like fools. It bothers me that I did not see the meaning to be decoded in the name Duval before now. I shall need to go investigate it.
Perhaps you will save me from the effort? Or at least acknowledge if you intended a connection?
You mean the -val suffix? Yes, I did intend the connection.
As far as I can recall, the name Percival never occurs in the 66 episodes of Gargoyles that I was involved in. The revelation about him came from a contest we held here at ASK GREG. "Name the Arthurian Survivors". I believe Todd won that one, though I can't recall if he was the first to guess Percival.
Duval is mentioned only once in the series. In "The Journey". My last episode and the first episode of the Goliath Chronicles.
1a) how many heads do the space spawn have? Does it varry? b) Do the Space spawn's general appearance varry from one another? By alot?
2a) Is New Camelot still around in 2198? b) Are Arther's decendands running it or anything(I'll be really surprised if you answer THAT) c) Is it connected to Master Matrix?
3) Do the Illuminati still fund the Quarry men in 2198?
1b. To them, yes.
2a. Before or after March?
2c. Before or after March?
3. Not saying.
Which came first the Master Matrix or New Camelot? Who created the Master Matrix?
No one created the Master Matrix exactly. It more evolved. So there's no chicken & egg thing here. It's too complex to break down into a one-sentence answer.
Things just evolve.
I had a question/comment. This is the history of Excalibur I got from one of the most brilliant people on the face of the Earth, my English teacher, Dr. Randy Lee Eickhoff, about a year ago:
Excalibur was forged by Hephaestus in Greece around 1000 BC. Then it was taken by a band of nomads (they have a name, and I honestly can't remember it), who traveled through Europe, and ended up in England. From then on the sword was handed down from great warrior to king, etc. Then Fergus Mac Roth, a King of Ulster, gained control of the sword Excalibur, at this time it was called Caliburn. Fergus was a key player in the story of Medb (Maeve), the warrior-queen of Connacht, and Cuchullain. Later Fergus and Medb had a love affair and one day while they were making love on a raft in the middle of a lake Medb's husband found them, he picked up Fergus' sword, Excalibur, and throw it at him. The sword stabbed him through the heart, and his body, still on the raft, floated down stream. And that is how the Lady of the Lake obtained the sword.
I was just wonder if that is close to the history of Excalibur in the Gargoyles Universe.
*Just a couple of quick notes:
Most people believe that Mab and Medb could have been the same person, and anyone who enjoys Irish myths should read "The Raid" by Randy Lee Eickhoff
I'd have to do my own research, and -- with all do respect to you and Dr. Eickhoff -- not just take your words for it. Some of it is new to me, some isn't.
But, hey, Todd? Does this stuff sound familiar to you?
Okay, you'll need your timeline out, so please have it handy or don't answer these questions until you have it. Thank you.
In the Gargoyles Universe, what years were the following people born:
(all the original one's from the Arthur legends)
2) Morgana le Fay?
Haven't pinned a single one of these down at this time. Given that I have pinned down Arthur's dates, it wouldn't be too hard to extrapolate the rest -- if by too hard you meant weeks (if not months) of research and development.
I already know that this isn't true, but a friend and I have a bet, and I'd like to settle this.
Morgana is not one of the Weird Sisters, is she?
Another one for "Pendragon".... Why does MacBeth show so much contempt for Arther after speaking so grandly of him and Merlin in "lighthouse"? By the end of the episode he sounds more like himself, but durning the race for the sword, I thought he should of treated him as more of a worthey opponent.
I don't hear contempt there. Just competition for a prize that he felt he had as much a right to as Arthur did. I guess it's a matter of interpretation.
In Pendragon, Arther gives the order to fire the lightning weapon at the base of the water elemental. Once this is done, the elemental is destroyed. Since I was never good at science, explane how electrisity would destroy the elemental and leave Arther unharmed.
We never said Arthur'd be unharmed. He wasn't unharmed.
But have you ever heard of the electrolysis of water?
Who has more magic? Merlin or Morgana?
I know I've answered this before, but here goes.
I think the Thing is on an average day, stronger than the Hulk. But the madder Hulk gets the stronger he gets. So ultimately the Hulk is stronger. But that doesn't mean the Thing can't take him. Ben Grimm knows his stuff.
There. I hope we've finally put that question to rest.
Is it a coincidence that both New Camelot and the Master Matrix are in Antarctica?
What does the Master Matrix and the LXM robots have to do with the Matrix that we see in Walkabout?
why did you and the writers decide not to have Macbeth join Arthur as one of his knights?
Mostly because Macbeth didn't seem to want to join.
But also because I didn't need him there as a regular in Pendragon. Frankly, he and Arthur have too much in common.
Arthur and Griff and later Blanchefleur and Merlin seemed like a good core group to start with.
Macbeth makes for a good guest star.
Have the names of Oberon and Titania's kids been mentioned in AskGreg?
Two have. Merlin and Fox. Oh, you mean the kids they had together?
NO. Not that I can recall.
Did Ra's al Ghul of Batman fame influence the character of Duval/Percival?
When you came up with the notion of having King Arthur and Griff join forces, did you ever notice the parallel between their backgrounds in that both, during their original time periods, were defending Britain from Germanic invasions (King Arthur versus the Saxons and Angles at Badon, Griff versus the Nazis in the Battle of Britain)?
I don't know. I mean it's all info in my head. But I can't be sure if I was conscious of it.
Mostly, Griff just seemed like Round Table material.
You've already given away that Morgana is a changeling. Have any other changelings appeared in the series? Will any appear in the spinoffs you've planned?
1.Why can't Oberon and Merlin get along? Whose fault is it?
2.Does Merlin recognize Oberon as his father?
3.How many other children did Oberon have with mortals? Care to give the names of his children?
1. Did I say they don't get along?
3. Not confirming or denying any others at this time.
Is Nimue a villain in Pendragon?
Nothing is that black and white.
How many episodes did you plan to dedicate to Arthur' search for Merlin?
I didn't have it quantified.
Who created the stone dragon in Pendragon? Do we know their names?
Is that the royal We?
Is Gargoyles Merlin a prophet like the Merlin of legends?
If Morgana were to fight Merlin who would win
1. It's in there.
2. Once again, I'm not big on these kind of questions. But I think that generally, the Hulk would beat the Thing, though it's not beyond the realm of possibility for the Thing to beat the Hulk. See my point.
How old is Merlin biologically and chronologically in 1995?
Can't answer the former. Won't answer the latter.
What powers does Excalibur have? Can it cut through anything?
Anything is a big word.
Fine, I guess I'll keep writing while everything is fresh in my mind. The questions are fading quickly so I'll get right to it.
1.Did Arther Pendragon have any adventures in the time before Avolon sent him to London in the skiff? It dosn't seem to fit that Goliath had been all around the world by the time it took Arther to get from Avolon to London.
2.If #1's answer is yes, will you tell me what thoese adventures were?
1. Yes, very astute. Arthur had one untold adventure after leaving Avalon. He then returned to Avalon. Considered staying there. Then decided to leave again and landed in London.
2. Yeah, right.
in your most recent (and long awaited) batch of questions you said that a garg living at the poles in a 6-month day, 6-month night cycle would eventually adapt. do you mean the garg would adapt to be flesh for six months and stone for six months, or adapt so that occasionally the garg would be awake in daylight or asleep at night?
It's all more complicated than that. It has to do with the Master Matrix and New Camelot, etc.
1) Who originally taught Griff's ancestors the "rookery poem" about Excalibur?
2a) Did the gargoyles that Arthur met during the years he was king also resemble lions, unicorns and griffons? b) Had he previously met any gargoyles of "Scottish stock" before he was introduced to Goliath and the Avalon clan?
3a) Was Arthur ever referred to simply as "Pendragon"? b) In the Gargoyles universe, how did the name "Pendragon" originate? In other words, what were the circumstances that led up to Arthur's father receiving that name? c) I'm asking the obvious, but what symbol and/or heraldic beast would be featured on Arthur's coat of arms?
1. The three.
2a. Many did.
3b. Not going into that now.
3c. Look at the character. But Arthur was a Pendragon and the Bear of Britain.
Who are Morgana"s biological parents?
Who are the Green Knight's biological parents?
Not saying on the former. Don't know on the latter.
How does Arthur get around in Pendragon? Where does he get the transportation to go to Antarctica, Stonehenge and Tintagel? Does Arthur have a base before New Camelot is found? Care to tell us where it is?
Arthur is largely baseless. Though Griff and his friends are always welcome in London.
Transportation is an issue in the show. An on-going issue.
What purpose does Blanchefleur serve in Arthur's quest?
Why does she join Arthur?
Not telling now.
What other characters did you plan to add as regulars in Pendragon besides Griff, Merlin, Arthur and Blanchefleur?
As regulars? No one, initially.
1. Did you ever have a love-interest planned for Arthur?
Who would she or they be?
Were the Illuminati the only villains you planned for Pendragon or were there more? Care to list a few? Would they include a few down to Earth ones such as gangsters?
I always have multiple villains planned. And no I don't care to list them.
Care to tell us how old Merline is biologically?
1.Who made Castle Carbonek? Are they the same guys that made the Grail? If not who are they?
2.How does time pass there? Is it like Avalon where a hour there is a day in our world?
3.Who controls the travelling? The fisher king? If no one controls it then does it work like Avalon where it takes you to where you're needed?
1. You mean who built it? Not going into that now.
2. Time passes normally.
3. The Fisher King controls it, but he has limits. And sometimes it gets out of his control.
1.Which human specifically made the grail? If you can't tell us then could you tell us if he was ever mentioned in the show or the askgreg archives?
I'm not sure that the grail was significant when it was made. It's what it was used for, right?
In your most recent set of answers (as of this point), you pretty much confirmed what many of us have suspected for some time - that in your vision for the Arthurian portion of "Gargoyles", Nimue was the daughter of Gorlois and Igraine whom Morgana was secretly swapped for. Just out of curiosity - did Merlin know when he was associating with her that she was his pupil Arthur's half-sister?
Not answering that at this time.
So have you planned a crossover with the casts of Pendragon, Bad Guys, Gargoyles and New Olympians appearing in the same episode?
What happened to the mortal child traded for Morgana? Is it dead?
What was that thing in Pendragon? Was it a actual dragon or was it a gargoyle seeing that it was protecting the sword?
Neither. It was a stone statue brought to life by powerful magicks.
You said that there was actually an internal reason for all these heroes being reawakened in the Gargoyles Universe including Goliath and the clan. Could you tell us the reason? If not was this the same reason that Arthur was originally taken to Avalon?
I could. I won't right now though.
There's connective tissue all over the place, but I don't feel like elaborating.
You mentioned that the London gargoyles (some of whom look like lions) were already in Britain during King Arthur's reign. In the Gargoyles Universe, does this explain the occasional presence of lions in Arthurian romances - i.e., the lions mentioned in Malory et al weren't really lions?
Potentially. Have to take every event on a case by case basis.
Why would Arthur go to Stonehenge to look for Merlin?
He's lookin' under every rock.
You said that you didn't like Morgan le Fay and Ceasar being Oberon's parents and that it was chronilogically impossible. But the myth probably meant Morgan in her fay, queen of Avalon form and the queen of Avalon is Oberon's mother so the myth isn't entirely impossible in the gargoyles universe
Huh? Are you conflating Morgan and Mab?
Cuz I'm not.
Greg I have a question on the three ladies:
Morgana, Nimue and Lady of the Lake are the three ladies which took Arthur to Avalon correct?
Are the three ladies the wired sisters?
I'm not sure about these "wired" sisters.
But they're not the Weird Sisters, if that's what you mean.
Did you ever have plans to introduces figures from major religons such as Hinduism, Islam and Christianity?
I already have.
Is the Magus actually dead? Couldn't the magic in the hollow cave heal him like it healed King Arthur?
Dead as far as I'm concerned. (And that ain't what healed Arthur.)
Which one of the four races created the Holy Grail? Why?
Humans. Originally, it was just a cup. Why is any cup created?
Who are the Green Knight's parents?
Who are Morgan le Fay's parents?
Who are Nimue's parents?
1. Haven't thought about it.
2. Gorlois and Ygraine thought they were her biological parents. Uther was her step-father.
3. Gorlois and Ygraine were her biological parents.
Did you ever plan a crossover between the Redemption Squad, Gargoyles, Pendragon and New Olympians?
You mean all at once?
How similar is Arthur's New Roundtable to the Avengers/JLA?
Not at all.
Did you plan to have any characters that we meet in the mist of avalon episodes get knighted by King Arthur?
Are the resemblances that King Arthur has with Captain America on purpose?
Will King Arthur ever find Gwenivere if he finds Merlin?
What era are we talking about?
This is my first time asking a question here, so be gentle...
It's been mentioned that in "Bad Guys", The Director would've been fighting against the Illuminati's Mr. Duval. Since you had planned for Duval to be Sir Percival, was the Director going to be any notable character from history, mythology, or literature? If so, then who?
In closing, I'd just like to thank you for helping create something that I've had much enjoyment from these past 7 years. There hasn't been any show quite like "Gargoyles" since (unfortunately).
(Was that gentle?)
And thanks. Glad you've stuck around.
Hey, um. Sorry about Question 2 in my Angela post.
I guess you DID say that you weren't gonna answer in questions about 2198 until the contest was over. (Although SOME people are already asking questions.
Here are some questions of my own.
1. Do Arthur and his comrades go on a quest to retrieve the Holy Grail. (I think I've seen yes in the archive). If so, does this pit the against Percival/Duval, the leader of the Illuminati.
2. Does Macbeth get involved.
1. Eventually and yes.
2. A bit.
Where does King Arthur expect to find Merlin if he does continue to persue him?
He's largely clueless, frankly. He tried to find him back in the day, and couldn't.
Does the Holy Grail have anything to do with the Golden Cup Bakery? [*LOL*] :>
Would Duval make any attempt to make his identity known to King Arthur? Arthur was Percival's great uncle, and Percy was one of Art's best knights, so would they make contact of any sort?
Contact would be made.
One thought that I had on Duval for a while after you mentioned his parentage in your viewpoint, and finally remembered to post here.
Since in your version of the Arthurian legend, Percival/Duval is Gawain's son, that means that he'd thereby be related to Arthur, as his great-nephew. (I've got to admit, while I knew from the start - since you mentioned it - that Duval had once been one of Arthur's friends, I hadn't suspected that he'd also be family).
Griff was going to be Una's mate but dissappeared before they could and she ended up mating with Leo, correct? if so, isn't that quite wierd for all three of them now that Griff is back, he obviously must've had feelings for Una and now her and his friend are together. would all this have anything to do with the reason Griff decided to stay with Arthur and not return to London?
Yes. And yes.
would Macbeth ever reconsider Arthur's invitation to be one of his knights?
Not on an ongoing basis, but when needed, certainly.
What angle do you take (in general) on the imprisonment of Merlin in the Crystal Cave by Nimue? The Malory version where she locks him up because she fears that he will seduce her, or the Roger Lancelyn Green version where it's more Nimue giving an old, exhausted wizard rest from his labors in bringing Arthur to the throne?
Just out of curiosity, where do you imagine the original Camelot (the sixth century one) being located in the Gargoyles Universe? Winchester (as per Malory), South Cadbury in Somerset (the current trend thanks to Leslie Alcock's excavations there in the late 60's), or somewhere else entirely?
Though I've read many theories, I have not sat down to run the research to answer the question independently for myself.
About Milord Arthur:
Who provided the voice for King Arthur? I loved his performance, and I'd like to know his name.
Also, my favorite thing about him is the way you designed him. It's the best visual embodiment of the Pendragon that I've yet seen. What talented person or persons designed him?
Ryan St. John did the voice.
I'm fairly certain, that Greg Guler designed the character, but I can't be 100% on that. It was a long time ago.
A little while ago, I asked you why you thought Gawain filled the bastard role. You answered "It's his behaviour. His ability to be the hero or the villain depending on the situation. His betrayal of family. His defense of family. He's so torn. He's such a bastard."
Now that I think about it, you're assessment of his hero/villain tendencies is rather accurate. But the only instance of that I can think of is at the end, near Logres's fall, when Launcelot slew Agravaine, Gaheris, and Gareth. Is that what you're assessing from? Because then, I understand your thoughts. He's forgives Launcelot for the death of Agravaine because A deserved it; he wants to kill L for the deaths of Gaheris and Gareth because they didn't deserve it, which is understandable but wrong. In the first case he acts nobly and in the second case he acts vindictively and vengefully. So there I see your reasoning.
But is that the only instance from which you drew your conclusion? Because that's the only point in time I can think of that marks Gawain as a bastard. Otherwise, he seems to me the epitome of courty knighthood, and my favorite of Lot and Morgawse's children. Do you have any other instances from which you draw your bastard conclusion?
Also, you indicated that his "betrayal of family" was a factor. If you'll pardon my ignorance, do you mean when he wasn't angry over the death of his brother Agravaine?
Arthur's family too, by the way. And he let's his thirst for vengeance push Arthur into an untenable situation.
Mordred was also family. Draw your own conclusions.
Gaheris and Gareth agree to act as Guenivere's unarmed "guard" at her execution. Gawain refuses to participate at all. He lets them go out without swords.
But Gawain was always a bit of a work-in-progress. Particularly when he was young. His experience with Lady Ragnall, whom I view as Percival's mother, is a case in point. He's a bastard who makes good in that story. And he still winds up alone.
I may be reading between the lines, more than a little, but I often see archetypes floating through various pantheons. Theseus is the perfect bastard in Greek Mythology. But when you get to Arthurian times, despite the surface similarities, Arthur just doesn't totally fit the bill for me. And though there are a TON of other potential candidates, including (depending on your interpretation) Merlin, Percival, Mordred, Galahad, etc., I still feel like this time out "THE BASTARD" decided that he wanted a shot at having a family. He bypassed the obvious choices and incarnated as Gawain. And nothing really changed for him.
Just how I see it.
I must confess I am not at all well-versed in Arthurian legend, though I am working toward it, so I was immediately curious about your PENDRAGON spin-off. I have an Arthurian-related question or two for you.
1a) I recently finished a version of GAWAIN AND THE GREEN KNIGHT (great piece of literature, bless the book) which is my current favorite of the adventures I've read. Someone else asked about the current status of the Green Horse already, so I won't ask again. But what about the Green Knight's lady, who by his will tempted Gawain and gave him the green lace? Is she a fairy? I mean, if the Knight's a fae...
1b) Is the aforementioned lady still around? If not, what happened to her?
2) Are you aware of the versions of Arthurian legends that include Phembar, Arillo, Rhayne, etc?
3) Have you read any Geoffrey of Monmouth?
1. I don't want to give away any more details at this time.
Another Camelot-influenced question:
What were the weather conditions of Camelot?
The rain could never fall til after sundown.
July and August could not be too hot.
(Those were the answers you were looking for, right?)
A weird question, but I just finished the movie version of Camelot, so: can King Arthur of the Gargoyles universe sing well?
I don't know. I guess it depends if John St. Ryan can sing well.
How old is Merlin biologically in 1996?
I'm not saying at this point.
1) Why did Morgana Le Fay and Nimue ever agreed to take Arthur to Avalon?
2)Did someone have to convince them?
3) if so, who?
1. I'm not going to reveal that now.
2. No details at this time.
3. It's a secret.
Somebody asked you earlier about Merlin's connection with the "Merlin Wylt" of pre-Geoffrey of Monmouth Welsh legends, and you mentioned that you didn't remember the details too well. I thought that I'd give a little information here (Merlin being a subject that I've always been strong on).
Merlin Wylt (also known as Myrddin or Lailoken) was apparently "the original Merlin", though he lived a few decades after Arthur's time period; he served as a bard and advisor to one King Gwenddolau, who lived in what is now Scotland in the late 6th century. When Gwenddolau was killed at the Battle of Arderydd in 573, Merlin Wylt went mad with grief and fled into the woods nearby, where he began uttering prophecies about Britain's future.
His name became so well-known, and attached to prophecies, that when Geoffrey of Monmouth wrote "The History of the Kings of Britain", he decided to bestow the name "Merlin" upon Ambrosius, the boy prophet who met with Vortigern, and thus created the familiar figure of Merlin, who was afterwards known as "Merlin Ambrosius". (I recall that Mary Stewart mentioned once that the "Merlin Ambrosius" version of Merlin's name was what inspired her with the notion that Ambrosius, Uther Pendragon's older brother and Arthur's uncle, was Merlin's real father, in "The Crystal Cave").
Of course, because of the dates, the two Merlins were probably not the same person (and indeed, I doubt that "Merlin Wylt" could have been the same as *the* Merlin in the Gargoyles Universe given that, from what you've said, Arthur's Merlin has been in the Crystal Cave since before Arthur's departure for Avalon, which was about thirty years before the Battle of Arderydd; it would have to have been a different guy with the same name).
Thanks for the info.
I was reading through the PENDRAGON archive, and came across a statement of yours that interested me. My question, based on the statement, is why do you think that Gawain fills the "Bastard" Achetype?
It's his behaviour. His ability to be the hero or the villain depending on the situation. His betrayal of family. His defense of family. He's so torn. He's such a bastard.
Now for some silly, irrelevant PENDRAGON questions:
You'll recall that in Gawain's adventure with the Green Knight, the said Knight rode on a courser (whom I affectionately call the Green Horse) that was as green as he was. I liked that horse, for some reason, so I'm going to ask some questions about him.
1. Seeing as normal horses do not occur in the color of green, and I doubt that the Knight would paint a normal bay or chestnut, is the Green Horse a magical creature, like a Odin's horse Sleipnir?
2. We know the Green Knight is a survivor. What about the Green Horse? (A knight can't go about without his horse!)
3. If the Horse isn't around, what does the Knight use instead?
3. Did you know that in Roger Lancelyn Green the Green Knight's name was revealed to be Sir Bernlak?
Okay, no more silly, irrelevant questions.
1. Maybe. Maybe not.
3. Don't know at this time.
3 again. I must have known that at one time, but I had forgotten.
1. Who created Excalibur?
2. Why was it created?
3. Given that Excalibur was the Sword in the Stone and the one held by the Lady of the Lake:
a. How did Merlin acquire Excalibur?
b. How did the Lady of the Lake acquire Excalibur?
4. Was Ambrosius (Latinized from Emrys), Vortigern's child prophet in Nennius' texts, Merlin, as Geoffrey of Monmouth said, or was he someone different?
5. Was Merlin (or Myrddin) Wylt connected to the Arthurian Merlin?
1-3. Not going to reveal this stuff yet.
5. I'm not sure I remember the details of this.
Which of the songs in Camelot do you particularly enjoy?
Camelot and If Ever I Would Leave You come to mind. It's been awhile though.
Since Aris recently brought up the part of the Arthurian legend where Arthur attempts to drown Mordred as a baby, I thought that I'd ask you on where you stand on one aspect of the story that often arises here.
Some Arthurian buffs have blamed Merlin for the whole "May Day Decree" business, on the grounds that it was his prophecy about Mordred's future evil and treason that led to Arthur making the attempt to get rid of him. I felt that this was rather harsh on Merlin, and felt that it was Arthur who was responsible for the incident instead. I was wondering what your take on the matter was (by which I mean, not whether Merlin was responsible in the Gargoyles Universe, but whether you consider him to blame for the incident in the original legend).
In my mind, there's generally blame to go around in something like this. But Arthur makes his own choices and should take responsibility for them.
A really weird question: do Morgana, Nimue and Lady of the Lake (the three ladies which took Arthur to Avalon) form a virgin-mother-crone trio? And if so who is which?
Not saying anything more about Nimue and Morgana at this time. (I've already given away too much.) WAY too much.
In general, is your version of Mordred in the Gargoyles universe the revisionist hero that the Welsh and Scots have in their myths, or the traditional evil scum?
Probably somewhere in between, I hope.
Do the rejuvination drugs the Illuminati give out to their senior members have any connection to the Holy Grail? I ask because their leader is the Fisher King, the keeper of the grail.
Regarding the May Day Decree you told me:
<<You're forgetting Moses, which I think is a much more direct parallel. >>
No, actually I wasn't forgetting Moses - but unlike you, I considered his case to be a more indirect parallel. The genocide ordered by the Pharaoh was made for reasons of population control. Both Herod's massacre and the May Day Decree ordered a slaughter so as to find and destroy only *one*, who was feared he would destroy the ruler.
Likewise, Moses is placed on the boat by his mother so as to be saved from the killing. Perseus and Mordred are placed in the boat by the *ruler* (who is also their father or grandfather), so as to be drowned...
Btw, it seemed to me you were avoiding the question? Do you feel that the May Day Decree took place in the Gargoyles Universe? I admit it still sounds to me a very non-Arthurian thing to do...
Look, I'm not going to tell you now.
But you're missing the appeal of the story. The difference between all the tales we've sighted and the Arthur/Mordred thing.
In all of those tales, it's the evil tyrant who is decreeing the death of children to save his hide.
With Arthur it's the good guy decreeing the death of children in hopes of destroying this great evil. Do the ends justify the means? Of course not. But that great moral dilemma is fascinating.
Was one of the reasons that you chose Blanchefleur for Arthur's female companion the fact that she is/was Duval's wife? Given that Duval evidently will be the main antagonist for "Pendragon", I can see that having his wife being one of Arthur's companions would open the door to some good story possibilities.
That's what I figured.
In one of the "Pendragon"-related questions that you answered just now, you mentioned that Excalibur had magic in its scabbard as well as the hilt and blade. Is this scabbard the same one from Malory which kept the wearer from bleeding?
Another PENDRAGON question:
The version of Arthurian legend I am most familiar with is that of the great RL Green, but my copy never satisfactorily explained where Mordred came from. I'd always believed he was the child of Morgana le Fay and King Urience, and the brother of Uwaine. Other versions I've read (Malory for one) say that he's the son of Arthur and Morgawse. I've heard elsewhere that he was Arthur's and Morgana's. What do you view his origins as?
He's the son of Arthur and Morgawse.
Greg, what do you think about the place that the "May Day's Decree" has in the Gargoyle Universe? (the murder of a great number of infants so as to destroy Mordred)
I always felt that unlike most other parts of the Arthurian legend (which didn't have so obvious sources) , the "May Day Decree" seemed a complete copycat of Herod's massacre with a bit of Perseus thrown in. As such I felt it was perhaps the part which rung by far the most untrue...
Anyway, others in the comment room have disagreed ofcourse. Do you think it happened in the Gargoyles universe or not?
(And I really hope for something more clear than "All things are true" :-)
You're forgetting Moses, which I think is a much more direct parallel.
1. What is the legal status of Percival/Duval and Blanchefleur's marriage at present? Are they still legally married (although clearly estranged)?
2. Do the marital problems that Percival and Blanchefleur are having at present have anything to do with the Illuminati's activities (particularly the less ethical ones such as the Hotel Cabal and the Quarrymen)?
Okay, I've crawled back out from under my rock to ask you these questions. (*HISS* Natural sunlight! It burns!)They're Arthurian related. Oh joy!
1. Is Morgana more powerful than Merlin? Given that she is a full blooded Fae it stands to reason that she is, but Merlin's father is a great deal more powerful than any other fae out there (baring Mab, of course). And I tend to think of Merlin more in terms of cunning and guile (like his Stepmother Titania) rather than unsubtle displays of raw might (like dear old dad). But in a knockdown drag out Wizard's Duel who has the edge in sheer power?
2. What can Excalibur do? (I'd better make this more specific lest I get a response like: 'what can't it do?') I doubt it is simply a really sharp blade, so what other abilities does it possess?
3. What does Arthur think of 21st century footwear? Today's sneakers have got to be much more comfortable than the boots he wore back in the day. Will he acquire some nice hush puppies or some more practical hiking boots for his long journey? =p
4. How is it that Alexander is considered one of Oberon's Children when Merlin, who is literally a child of Oberon, is not? Not to malign the kid's potential or anything, but given that Oberon is a helluva lot more powerful than Alex's grandmother Titania (as far as raw energy goes) I find it hard to believe that the ¼ fae Alex can hold a candle to Merlin. And if he isn't more powerful, why is considered one of Oberon's Children? I'm probably missing some factor here so enlighten, please.
5. How old is Merlin, both biologically and chronologically? (assuming there's a difference)
6. Where did I put the remote for my T.V.? (Oh wait! This should be on another post. Sorry)
I'll stop annoying you, now. (Why linger here when there are so many other ersatz celebrities to aggravate?)
1. I'm not big on quantifying power.
2. It's got power, power in its blade, in its hilt and in its scabbard. But mostly its a cool sword.
3. In general, he might get a less conspicuous wardrobe to change into.
4. Who said Alex is? Who said Merlin is not? Both are or aren't depending on how you define it.
5. Haven't worked that out yet.
Hoping for a third-time-lucky: how old is Arthur Pendragon, biologically and chronologically?
Arthur was born in 485 A.D. and went to sleep at age 57.
When did Oberon pass his non-intervention edict? And in particular, was it extant during Arthur's original time period in the 5th century? (To be even more particular, was it extant at the time that Morgana got placed in the cradle in exchange for Gorlois and Igraine's biological daughter?)
Is the reason Arthur was put on Avalon the same reason all these heroes have started appearing?
The reason he was "put" there?
We know that Griff, Arthur's first companion, is a knight, since we see him getting knighted by Arthur at the end of "Pendragon" (the episode). We also know (at present) that Arthur will have Blanchefleur and Merlin for his next two companions to be gained.
Now, I doubt that Merlin will count as a knight, given that his function in Arthur's service was entirely different. But do you see Blanchefleur filling the role of a knight?
Not exactly, no.
Who else would be the antagonists in Pendragon besides the Illuminati?
Eh, not in the mood to give that away now.
Are any other existing characters in the show going to get knighted by Arthur besides Griff? If so would you care to give a few names? Would all his knights come from the UK or would they come from other places?
My lips are sealed.
For now at least.
So *crossing fingers that you're at your office* - how old is Arthur, biologically? For that matter, how old is Arthur chronologically?
Sorry. I'm at home. Try again later.
How do you view the Arthur/Launcelot/Gwinevere triangle? I've been exposed to several versions:
1. A loves G. It's an arranged marriage; G likes but doesn't love A. Later meets L; falls in love with him.
2. A loves G, G loves A, they marry. G later meets L and falls out of love with A and into with L.
3. A loves G, G loves A, they marry. G later meets L. G falls in love with L, but still loves A, too.
Do you see it like any of the above? If not, what do you see?
3 largely. But I don't like schematizing it that much.
Did you have any other villains for Pendragon besides the Illuminati?
Would there have been any other gargoyles besides Griff in PENDRAGON?
Eventually, but not right away.
Were the ancestors of the London clan the gargoyles whom Arthur was acquainted with during his reign? I assume that they were in Britain already at the time because of Griff's "hatchling riddle" about Excalibur in "Pendragon" (the episode) - not to mention the fact that their presence in Arthur's kingdom would explain those references in the legends to lions, unicorns, and griffons in Arthurian Britain - but I just wanted to make certain.
Surprised someone hasn't asked this before (or maybe they have, but I missed it in the archives) anyway, in the Gargoyles Universe what is the reason for the building of Stonehenge?
Don't want to reveal that now. But I will say that, obvioulsy, it's a Pendragon issue.
Does Nimue know who her mortal parents were? (Yeah, yeah, we've all guessed it was Nimue :-)
Does Morgana know that she's not the biological child of her parents?
Which Oberati did the exchange? And for what reason?
I don't want to answer this now.
Would any of the spinoffs featured the Pack (or at least members of the Pack) as villains?
Thank you for your time.
Sure. Most. Let's see...
Gargoyles 2158 (revised)
And I wouldn't be surprised if we also saw them in
But I would be surprised if they showed up in
How old is Arthur Pendragon, biologically?
Man, I just figured that out. But the info is back in my office. Ask me again later.
Which character is the first to join up with Arthur and Griff (presumably out of a choice of Blanchefleur or Merlin?)
Not saying now.
Has Merlin's appearance changed at all since Arthur last saw him? If so, would he be recognisable to Arthur?
Thanks for answering my question about the women who took Arthur away to Avalon - and I will add that I really had believed before reading your answer that in the Gargoyles Universe it was the Weird Sisters who did it - had believed it ever since seeing "Avalon Part One", in fact. But your answer is certainly truer to the original legend.
At any rate, the notion of Morgan le Fay being one of the women who took Arthur off to Avalon goes back at least to Malory, and maybe beyond. I found that particularly interesting in the legend, because of Morgan's bitter hatred for Arthur, and sometimes wondered why she was helping him to Avalon for healing in that case. I'm curious as to your thoughts on this (in the general terms of the legend, rather than any specific plans that you might have for Morgan's portrayal in the Gargoyles Universe). Do you think that it was a change of heart towards her brother, or some other purpose?
I know what my answer is, but I'd rather not say right now. Even the general either/or question you posed gives away too much. Though God knows I haven't been shy about giving things away.
So ask me again some other time, and if the mood takes me, who knows?
1. Did you intend to address Arthur's so-called "half-sister" as Morgan le Fay, or Morgana le Fay?
2. Is the "title" 'le Fay' what gave you the idea that she was a swapped fae baby instead of Arthur's blood half-sister? Or was there some other factor?
3. What ever happened to Arthur's real half-sister, the babe that Morgana was swapped for?
1. Probably Morgana, but I haven't made a final decision.
2. The former.
3. Haven't you figured that out?
In your vision of the Gargoyles Universe, which factor was responsible for Merlin's survival down to modern times? His own abilities as a halfling wizard, the properties of the Crystal Cave, or a mixture of the two?
Both. Neither. You're missing an important ingredient.
You've mentioned before about your plans on bringing the Holy Grail into the Gargoyles Universe. Did you ever feel a little intimidated by the Grail, in so doing? I don't mean just its connections to Christianity (which you once pointed out were overshadowed by its connections to Arthur anyway), but by its function in legend as "the ultimate quest". I know that I'd find the prospect of tackling the Grail an almost overwhelming one.
Nah. Maybe I'm arrogant.
this is about the 8 authurian survivors
1. merlin is trapped. for how long?
2. how does merlin get out.
3. who put him there
4. who is the green knight exactly
5. how was the pheonix gate envolved with the 8 authurian survivors
6. what was the price duval had to pay for his current status
7. in the journey episode, duval was on the phone and kept on hold....what did duval want?
1. 'Til Arthur frees him.
2. Arthur frees him.
4. Who are you exactly?
5. Who said it was?
6. I'm not telling.
7. To talk to Xanatos.
On your last remark about the Grail: you mentioned that you didn't see the Grail being taken up to Heaven along with Galahad because Heaven has no need for things. Actually, in the medieval romances where that happens, the reason why the Grail is taken away to Heaven is that humanity had become so utterly corrupt that God decided that they had become unworthy of having the Grail with them. (Although that was only a relatively late development in the story; in the early Percival versions, it does remain on Earth).
Yeah, I don't see God giving up on us quite so easily.
And I hardly believe that one age is more corrupt than another.
In the traditional Arthurian legends, King Arthur was taken away to Avalon after his last battle in a boat by three women. In the Gargoyles Universe, were these three women - ah - anybody we've already met in the series?
Lady of the Lake, Morganna Le Fay and Nimue.
(Sorry Weird Sisters fans.)
1. Many stories give the name of the Lady of the Lake to be either Nimue or Viviane. Now, since you said that Nimue is separate from the Lady of the Lake in the Gargoyles Universe, is Viviane the Lady of the Lake or a separate person?
2. In the Gargoyles Universe, did the Lady of the Lake raise Lancelot?
3. Would you have incorporated some of the old Welsh tales of Arthur, such as the Arthur assisting his relative Kilhwch in trying to win the hand of Olwen (I ask this because one of the tasks, the raid on Caer Sidi, contains the Cauldron of Annwfn, which may be a precursor to the Grail)?
4. Would the bard Taliesin have played a role in it?
5. In your version of the story of Arthur, was Excalibur the Sword in the Stone, or was it the replacement sword he recieved from the Lady of the Lake?
1. Viviane is an alternate name to Nimue. In MOST Arthurian stories, Nimue/Viviane is a separate character from the Lady in the Lake. I've kept it that way.
2. No. Though they may have had something to do with each other.
3. Not familiar with those, but eventually, who knows? Wanted to account for everything eventually.
We definitely know that the Illuminati, and particularly Percival/Duval, would have been major antagonists for "Pendragon". Now that the "Arthurian survivors" contest is over, could you tell us now what other recurring antagonists you had planned for Arthur and Griff?
(Not just cold like that.)
Besides, right now my head's kinda full up working on the 2158 revamp. Ask me later, but with more style.
I don't expect a straight foward answer on this...but judging from the fact that Camelot recieves only a half point in the clans contest, you want us to guess where Camelot is (or will be) So here's a question:
Is Camelot still in the same location it was when Arthur first ruled? Or has it moved to a new location?
Who says Camelot still exists?
This is about your mention once that King Arthur and Griff would visit the South Pole during their quest for Merlin:
1. I understand if you don't want to answer this question, but I'm a bit curious as to why they'd think of looking for Merlin in Antarctica. Back in the 5th century, nobody in Britain would have been aware of Antarctica's existence, so it would be a rather unlikely place for Merlin's Crystal Cave. Why would Arthur and Griff consider it a candidate, then?
2. Was your decision to include the South Pole on Arthur and Griff's itinerary influenced at all by the fact that Antarctica was the only continent that Goliath and Co. never visited on the Avalon World Tour?
1. Nobody in Britain? Or nobody with normal resources?
2. Not particularly.
1) If and when you get to do tose Gargoyle Episodes and Spinoffs do you plan to do crossovers like the following:
2) Would you still include the Previously On Gargoyles segments when necessary?
1. 2158(revised) and TimeDancer, definitely.
Dark Ages and TimeDancer, probably.
Pendragon/Bad Guys. Probably, eventually.
Bad Guys/Gargoyles. Definitely.
New Olympians/Gargoyles. Definitely.
New Olympians/Pendragon/Bad Guys - Eventually.
In your proposed spinoff PENDRAGON, how did you plan to address the Arthur-Gwenyvere-Launcelot love triangle? I doubt you would have completely overlooked it, but some versions of the Arthurian legends say Launcelot and Gwenyvere had an affair, but it would be difficult to present it in a children's show and get it past S&P. How would you ahve approached it, if you were going to approach it at all?
Well, it wouldn't be a big current issue, since both Lance and Gwen are long dead. But I believe we could have handled it in passing in a straight-forward way. It's such a classic part of Western Culture. It's less problematic than you think. I mean we don't have to SAY that they had sex. Which is not to say they didn't. We simply show them kissing, for example, and we get the idea of betrayal across without doing anything too controversial. Look how we handled the Constantine/Finella/Kenneth triangle.
One little Arthurian note about your theory that the grave at Glastonbury really contained the bodies of Lancelot and Guinevere rather than Arthur and Guinevere. I noticed that Roger Lancelyn Green went for the same notion himself. (And it's not a bad way of explaining the grave, either, once you a) recall that Lancelot turned monk at Glastonbury after Arthur's passing and so was in the area in his final days, and b) go for the notion of Avalon being a faerie island - as it's portrayed in "Gargoyles" - rather than just an old-fashioned name for Glastonbury).
You and me should start a R.L. Green fan club.
A comment about your revelation today that Blanchefleur would have been the female companion to Arthur and Griff.
That one, in fact, I'd suspected for some time now (and can share my thoughts with you on how I worked it out after you made the revelation); in fact, that was precisely what led me to suspect Blanchefleur as one of the 8 Arthurian survivors. I'd been wondering who the female companion would be for some time. Now, you'd mentioned that you decided against sending the Magus to accompany Arthur on his adventures in the outside world since that would mean either:
a) they never find Merlin (a let-down)
b) the Magus dies before Arthur finds Merlin (which puts a higher value on Merlin than on the Magus)
c) Arthur has two magic-users accompanying him (not very challenging, in such a case)
From this I figured out that Arthur's female companion could not be a magic-user either. So that ruled out nearly every female character from the legend whom I could imagine as a survivor, since most of them (such as Morgan le Fay) were magic-users. But a female character connected with the Grail could survive to modern times without the use of magic. And as for who that female character was - well, you'd mentioned Roger Lancelyn Green among the Arthurian writers whom you'd read, and Blanchefleur turns up in his version as Percival's queen; thus you'd be aware of her.
So that's how I arrived at my suspicion that Blanchefleur would be Arthur and Griff's female companion, and it seems now that I was correct. Guess that I've got more than a little detective in me.
Very good. You are dead on.
But you approached it in reverse. I came up with the survivors first. Blanchefleur (translated into the twentieth or twenty-first century) interested me, and I wanted a female in the group.
The whole Magus/Merlin dilemma came later.
Thanks for answering my questions about Morgana (and correcting me on the "adopted" word; wrong term). At any rate, I thought that I'd ask you a couple more questions about her:
1. In your interpretation of Morgana, what's her motive for hating Arthur? Power hunger and seeing him as an obstacle to her path to rule over Britain, as in Malory, or a vendetta over what Uther did to Gorlois and Igraine, as per many modern versions of the legend?
2. Is Morgana subject to Oberon's non-intervention law, or does that not apply to her since she was raised as a mortal by Gorlois and Igraine?
1. All of the above, and more.
What was the originally intended situation that should have awakened King Arthur had Elisa not interfered? Please be specific if possible (I know that he would have been needed, and that "the world does need a leader", but what would have suddenly caused this need?)
Another Grail-related question, this one about Percival/Duval. In the traditional legends, Percival is portrayed as a rather naive, guileless fellow, even something of a fool at times, ignorant of the world and its ways. Duval, as the head of the Illuminati Society, would obviously have, by the mere nature of the job, to be a very cunning and duplicitous man, a la Xanatos. When you gave Percival the role of the Illuminati's leader, were you going for a contrast between him as he was in Arthur's time period and the way that he is as Duval now?
I'm not going to confirm or deny your description of Duval's personality.
But I will acknowledge that time and tide have had their effect on young Percival.
Did Galahad exist in the Gargoyles Universe (at least, in your opinion)? The hints that you've made about the Grail's status in the Gargoyles Universe indicate that it's still on Earth and being guarded by Percival and Blanchefleur at Carbonek (cf. your comments on the 8 Arthurian survivors), which comes closer to the way that the Grail is treated in the pre-Galahad version of the legend, rather than those versions of the Grail story, such as Malory's, where Galahad appears; in the Galahad version of the Grail story, the Grail is taken up to Heaven after Galahad achieves it, never to be seen again. On the other hand, I have read modern day versions of the Grail Quest where Galahad achieves the Grail and yet where the Grail remains on Earth with Percival as its guardian, so Galahad's existence isn't necessarily incompatible with the Grail still being around in modern times. (Of course, since Galahad isn't on the survivors list, I doubt that he'd be that much of an issue in "Pendragon" if you had made it).
Galahad did exist. He ascended to Heaven after drinking from the Grail. But the Grail didn't go with him. What need does heaven have for things?
Did Morgana or Nimue attend the Gathering?
The one in Dallas or one of the ones in New York?
A few "Pendragon" questions for you.
1. In your opinion, what is Arthur's response to discovering that he and Camelot have been remembered all these centuries after his departure to Avalon? The thing that prompted this question was a reflection on my part that, according to the traditional plot-line of the legend, his achievements must have seemed pretty bleak to Arthur at the time of his "death"; the Round Table's been split in half, nearly all the knights are dead, his own son rose up against him, Guinevere was separated from him and besieged in the Tower of London, Lancelot away in France, Gawain dead and buried; it must all have seemed for nothing. (I admit that this description is somewhat influenced by that bit at the end of "The Once and Future King" where Arthur's brooding in his tent on the eve of the final battle - which is, IMHO, one of the best parts of White's book). What do you suppose the impact on him must have been to discover that he and his ideals haven't been forgotten, that he's practically become a household name as a symbol of medieval chivalry, as has Camelot?
2. In your opinion, what are Arthur's current (as in, at the time of the episode "Pendragon") feelings on the Lancelot/Guinevere business? Has he been able to get over it, more or less?
3. In the episode "Pendragon", Arthur notes (somewhat puzzledly) that his reclaiming of Excalibur is taking place in New York rather than in Britain. While the obvious reason for this is the necessity of the plot (in order to get Hudson and the trio involved), was there any deeper significance here, as in, suggesting what Arthur's ultimate long-term destiny might be in the modern world? (Come to think of it, in that same episode, the Lady of the Lake says "The world doth a leader need" - "The world" as opposed to merely "Britain" - is that also significant?)
1. Have you ever read White's "The Book of Merlin". It's wonderful and heartbreaking. And the sequence where the hedgehog takes Arthur out to show him his sleeping country always makes me cry. I like to think that -- even in the Gargoyles Universe -- as Arthur approached his first "death", he had had the benefit of a hedgehog (or some hedgehog equivalent) to let him know that it wasn't all for nought. As for all the attention that came in the intervening years, I think he'd be surprised, flattered, embarrassed, outraged, etc. depending on the individual retellings. As of the "Pendragon" episode, he wasn't even aware of any of it.
2. I don't think his opinion ever really changed. It hurt. But these were the two human beings he loved most in the world. If he could have protected them, he would have.
3. Yes. Significant. Arthur was meant to play a part on a larger stage.
I'm adding in the reasoning behind my choices, just to make this a bit more interesting.
1. Arthur Pendragon (You already gave us this one. He's already appeared on the show. No-brainer.)
2. The Lady of the Lake (Another one you gave us. Also already showed up.)
3. Merlin (Various references to him in your replies make him an almost certain candidate.)
4. Morgan Le Fey (Some of the Arthurian baddies have to show up <though Morgan falls out of this category if you take the view of her from "Mists of Avalon"> Anyways, Morgan does survive in most versions I've read. And I rather see her than Morgause, especially as written by T.H. White <shudder>)
5. Percival (I didn't consider Percy until he came up in other people's guesses. He's one of the knights who found <or came close to finding, depending on who you read> the Grail. He could still be around somewhere.)
6. Galahad (He's kind of a long shot, but I'm basicly using the same logic I used for Percival. Plus he was considered Arthur's best knight, being Lancelot's son and all. So why not?)
7. Mordred (This one's a real dark horse <Hey everyone, go read "Hellboy"!> but like I said, there's got to be some villains. Plus, you've been talking about how you like the "bastard" achetype and Mordred's pretty much a bastard in every sense of the word.
8. Bedevere (He's the last Round Table knight...I think. Really wish I had a book with me. Anyways, he didn't die and it gives a sort of odd continuity to it. Assuming I've got the right name.)
Well, this contest was over months and months ago.
Your first five guesses are correct. You're last three are wrong. Galahad ascended after drinking from the Grail. Mordred was killed by Arthur. Bedevere died en route to the Holy Land.
Instead of those three guys we have Nimue, Blanchefleur and the Green Knight.
If you had gotten to make the "Pendragon" spin-off, what sort of cast structure do you envision it as having? Did you see it as basically about a single hero (Arthur) a la "Batman:TAS", or as an "ensemble piece" like "Gargoyles", with Arthur being more analogous to Goliath in function and whatever companions he gained (Griff, the mysterious woman from his time who would join them - whose identity I have a pretty strong suspicion of, by the way - eventually Merlin after Arthur and Co. find him, etc.) being analogous to the rest of the clan?
We'd start small with Arthur & Griff. A buddy movie-like structure, though Arthur's in charge. Then we'd add cast members one-by-one until we had our core group of four. Over time, we'd have lots of people come in and out, and eventually we'd expand the cast. But not right away. I like the two dynamic, the three dynamic and the four dynamic. I'd play with each before altering.
A final comment on the Aurthurian Survivors (old news, I suppose):
You're big on redemption and don't mind having a different interpretation of legends (I do the same when running role-playing games [my Arthur is a mummy]); Why no Lancelot/Guenevere/Arthur reunion at some point? It always seemed like there was a chance to resolve the problems. What's your take on it?
Thanks for taking the time.
Lance and Gwen are dead. What resolution was necessary had to have taken place in the past if at all.
Written by Brynne Chandler Reaves & Lydia C. Marano
Story Edited by Michael Reaves
Well, I watched "Lighthouse" again last night with my family. First thing I noticed was the bad "Previously" recap. This is all my fault. The recap features Macbeth, because I wanted to make sure the audience knew who he was. But that blows out the first act surprise reveal that he's behind it all. Up to that point in the story, you'd be thinking Xanatos. But because of the dopey recap, you know it MUST be Mac. Later in the season, after I got hammered over these recaps by the folks on the Disney Afternoon e-Mailing list, I learned never to put anything into the recap that wasn't revealed in the first five minutes of the show to follow. But here's a perfect example of me screwing up my own mystery.
We introduce archeologists Lydia Duane and Arthur Morwood-Smythe. Dr. Duane was named after writers Lydia Marano and Diane Duane. Professor Morwood-Smythe was named after writers Arthur Byron Cover and Peter Morwood. Arthur is Lydia's husband. Peter is Diane's husband. I don't know anyone named Smythe.
Macbeth episodes, at least up to this point, seem to be cursed with mediocre animation. (Of course, everything's relative. Mediocre on Gargs was still better than most series got. But relative to our expectations, this ep is pretty weak.) I bet Elisa would have really looked cute in that red baseball hat if the animation had been even slightly better.
I don't know how clear it is in the prologue. The idea there, was that the wind was blowing through the lyre. The haunting sound drew the archeologists further into the cave. They read the warning which indicates that the seeker of knowledge has nothing to fear, the destroyer everything. They are supposed to hesitate, look at each other, decide that they are seekers not destroyers and then open the chest. Merlin's clearly put a safety spell of some kind on the chest. An image of the old man appears and basically checks to confirm whether the archeologists are in fact seekers or destroyers. Satisfied, the spell disipates. But you can imagine what would have happened if a Hakon type had stumbled in.
Anyway, it never felt like all that came across. Did it?
Brooklyn (re: Broadway): "Ignorance is bliss." In High School, I had a classmate named Howard Bliss. We had chemistry together with Mr. Miller. Mr. Miller once asked the class a question that we all should have known. No one knew the answer, and our own idiocy generated laughter among Miller's students. He just shook his head and said: "Ignorance is bliss." He forgot that he had a student named Bliss. It generated more laughter. I don't know why I told you that. But it's what I thought about when Brooklyn read that line.
There's a semi-heavy-handed "Read More About It" feel to the clock tower conversation regarding Merlin. Goliath practically quotes those public service announcements, saying there are many books about him in the library. I don't mind. I had wanted to cite a few actual books -- like Mary Stewart's THE CRYSTAL CAVE -- but our legal department wouldn't give us clearance for that. Very short-sighted.
A connection is made between Merlin and the Magus. This was not an accident, as at that time, I had planned to have the Magus journey with Arthur on his Pendragon quests to find Excalibur and Merlin. I later changed my mind. But the Magus does at least play a Merlin-esque roll in the Avalon three parter.
I always wonder who was playing in "Celebrity Hockey" that night.
Macbeth's standard Electro-Magnetic weapon was my idea. I didn't design it exactly, but I did make crude little drawings of something that looked vaguely like a staple gun, with two electrodes that generated the charge. I was always proud of that weapon. It was uniquely Macbeth's (and Banquo and Fleances'). Set him apart from all the concussion, laser and particle beam weapons we used elsewhere. (I did the same kind of thing on the Quarymen's hammers.)
It's fun to listen to B.J. Ward voice both sides of the confrontation between Fleance and Duane.
Banquo's model sheet showed him squinting out of one eye. Some episodes, not so much this one, but some took that to mean he only had one eye. So he walks around looking like Popeye for the entire episode. (His big lantern jaw helps accentuate that.) There are a couple of Popeye moments in this ep. But more in his next appearance I think.
It was my idea to just have Mac's mansion rebuilt without explanation. I don't exactly regret it, but it's kinda cheap. We burned it way down. He has it rebuilt. It makes sense. But we usually dealt with consequences more than that.
When he rebuilds it, he installs those cannons. They were supposed to be giant-sized versions of the hand-held E-M guns. But they don't come off that way. Instead they fire at the gargoyles. And mostly seem to destroy the various turrets of Macbeth's own place. Ugghh.
As in "Leader" we get another scene of Goliath and friends confronting Owen at the castle. Looking for Xanatos, when in fact Xanatos isn't the threat. It made sense in both episodes. And it's always nice to showcase Owen a bit. But after two of those in four episodes, I wasn't gonna do that again. (At least not until KINGDOM.)
I love the "Macbeth Theme" that Carl Johnson created for the villain, which is featured at the end of ACT ONE.
Macbeth opens the "second scroll" and starts to read Merlin's seal. This caused tons of fan confusion, as he read "Sealed by my own [i.e. Merlin's] hand". No one seemed to get that he was reading that. They thought Mac was saying that he [i.e. Macbeth] had sealed the scroll. Of course that notion renders the whole thing confusing as hell. But it never occured to us that anyone would take it that way.
We also introduce Jeffrey Robbins and Gilly in this episode. Gilly is of course short for Gilgamesh, one of the legendary characters that Robbins once wrote about. It's just a bit odd, because Gilly is a female.
Robbins is a very cool character. Wish we had had the opportunity to use him more.
I like how when Robbins and Hudson are introducing themselves, Robbins gives his first and last name. Hudson says, I'm Hudson, "like the river". An echo of how he got the name. And a reminder that names aren't natural to him. Even if they are addictive.
John Rhys-Davies is just fantastic as Macbeth. I love his speech to Broadway. It accomplishes everything we needed it too. That line about the "human heart" by the way is a reference to the Arthur/Lance/Gwen triangle.
I also love his line: "I'm Old, but not THAT Old." This was a little hint to what we'd reveal in CITY OF STONE. Sure Macbeth's from the eleventh century, but not the fifth or sixth. It's like someone saying to someone my age, "So what did you do during World War II?"
Lennox Macduff. That was a cool touch. Also a hint as to how Macbeth feels about Shakespeare.
I like the Phone Book scene too. Hudson says "Hmm. Magic Book." Robbins replies: "Aren't they all." Great stuff.
By the way, as Robbins goes through the phone book, scanning names, he passes "Macduff, Cameron". One of my college roommates was Cameron Douglas, who was really interested in his Scotish heritage. That was a mini-tribute to him.
My daughter Erin reacts to the fact that Macbeth threatens to use Merlin's spells on Broadway. She points out that Macbeth had promised to let Broadway go after he had the scrolls. She's surprised he hasn't kept his word. My wife at that point reminds Erin that Macbeth is the villain. Erin gets that. But you can tell it isn't quite sitting right with her.
Later when Macbeth DOES let everyone go without a struggle, Erin is clearly not sure what to make of him.
And on one level, that's exactly as we wanted it. Macbeth is a troubled guy -- a hero who's devolved into a villain. A suicidal villain on top of that, though we hadn't revealed that yet. But he is a villain. Later, it's debatable, but here he's taken to being an ends-justify-the-means kinda guy. And even his ends are hazy at best.
I love Broadway's "precious magic" speech. It's so wierd hearing poetry from the big galoot. But that's so Broadway. The soul of a poet. Bill Faggerbakke was a huge help.
And I love Robbins "They are lighthouses in the dark sea of time..." speech. I love that it's not exactly the title. Brynne and Lydia did fine work on this one.
I wonder what happened to that lyre?
1) How long did it take for the New Olympians to develop their technology to the level seen in New Olympians?
2) In any respects are any of the three races involved in the Space-Spawn war less advanced than what we've seen of Earthly technology? Meaning is there anything in particular technologically Earth has that the aliens don't have? Like say, Sevarius' genetic manipulation, the NO's anti-gravity, Xanatos' Matrix..
3) How advanced were Gargoyles technologically by the time humanity came along? Stone Age-tech?
4) Castle Wyvern is a large stone-built fortress that looks like it was built using construction techniques and concepts that didn't appear in Europe until after the Crusades(I think). So why, in the Gargoyles universe, are the Europeans of 994 more advanced than in history? What in-universe explanation is there?
5) King Arthur of the 6th century seems to wear at least partial plate armour that didn't appear until the 1400's? what's the in-universe explanation here?
1. Until 1996.
2. Generally, they are more advanced than us. But I won't rule out the possiblility that we might not be able to surprise them.
3. Not very. It was unnecessary to their life-styles. Humans are a much more adaptable race, for better and for worse.
4. In universe, I don't need an explanation if I don't feel like dealing. They just are. Perhaps less was forgotten. Perhaps magic was involved. Perhaps our knowledge is flawed.
5. He had access to sources of Armor that most people didn't. We assume that these things didn't EXIST until later. All we KNOW is that they weren't prevalent until later.
Hello again. These questions are about King Arthur. 1) Would he still be alive by 2158? 2) Would Arthur ever be recognized by world leaders as being the actual "King Arthur"? 3) Would Arthur ever rule Britain again? (he's supposed to be the once and future king, right?) 4) Would he ever rule anything? 4) Will he have an heir? 5) You previously mentioned that McBeth wouldn't "inherit" Excalibur from Arthur. Would McBeth ever even own Excalibur? 6) What's the largest number (rough estimate) of knights that you picture Arthur having, from the time he was awakened until he dies? 7) About how many of those knights do you think might be gargoyles? 8) Do you picture Griff staying at Arthur's side until death claims one of them?
(please forgive the obvious "monstly" typo in my previous post. I would really appreciate an answer to those questions)
2. By some. Not all.
3. Once and Future King of something, all right.
4. That would be telling.
5. He might hold it once or twice.
6. I'm not good with numbers. (It's amazing I can count to fourteen over and over again.)
7. See 6.
You said that in Pendragon Arthur would have a female friend who is an arthurian survivor. You also said you didn't want to have two magic users on Arthur's side. Since three fourths of the female Arthurian survivors are magic users that means Blanchefleur must be the traveling companion.
Is the reason that Alexander is considered a Children of Oberon while Merlin is considered a halfling because Alexander is basically more powerful than Merlin?
Who made those assumptions?
Merlin's technically a halfling because Oberon is his father but his mother is human.
Fox is also theoretically a halfling. Her mother is Titania. Her father is the human Halcyon Renard.
Alexander is technically a quarterling, I guess. He's fully human on his father's side and half human on his mother's side.
I have some questions:
Is Ross Perot the current identity of Duvall today?
Is Todd Jensen the current identity of Mr. Duvall?
Is Vinnie the current identity of Mr. Duvall?
BTW, Guess what day today is ;)
Ahh, April 1st in your dimension Attila. But here in mind it's July 4th. Quite a different holiday.
So no, no, no.
Was the list of "eight Arthurian survivors" something that you came up with before you ever began working on "Gargoyles", or was it something specifically designed for the series? I do think that all eight members of the list work as surviving from Arthurian times to the present day even without the specifically Gargoyles-related elements such as Percival heading the Illuminati in it; i.e., the rationale for their survival fits the original legends in general.
Yes. That list definitely pre-dates Gargoyles with the exception of the Green Knight. Who only occured to me later. (That's why originally, the contest only had seven survivors. When I remembered the Green Knight, I had to add an eighth.)
But the other seven had all been worked out in my head long, long ago. There's a grave in England that many people for years believed held the bodies of Arthur and Guenivere. But I think they made a mistake. I think it contained Guenivere and Lancelot.
Just visited "Ask Greg" and read your response to my question about Percival's birth. Thanks for reminding me of Green; I'd been mentally following the Malory version where Percival's father was King Pellinor. (It probably helped here that Pellinor is one of my favorite characters in the Arthurian legend, largely on account of my having been introduced to him through T. H. White. I always enjoyed White's interpretation of Pellinor and his constant hunt for the Questing Beast). But you're correct; Green does indeed hint at Gawain being Percival's father.
(Which, incidentally, means that two of the Arthurian survivors in the Gargoyles Universe would be closely connected to Gawain, even if he himself is long since gone: Percival, if you view him as Gawain's son in the Masterplan, and the Green Knight, who tested him in both his castle and at the Green Chapel).
Yep. And Arthur, who is Gawain's uncle. And Morgana who is Gawain's aunt. And Blanchefleur, who is Gawain's daughter-in-law. And Nimue, who is...
Well, you get the idea.
By the way, I always like White's Pelly too.
Did the two animated suits of armor that guarded Arthur's sleeping place on Avalon belong to anybody prior to their being put there (as in, say, having been worn by Arthur's knights), or were they specially constructed for the purpose of guarding him and used only for that purpose?
Honestly, I haven't thought about it. But I'm sure there's a story behind how they got there.
*checks out the latest Contest guesses* yup, just as I thought, I wouln't have said anything original;) But I _did_ happen to think up some more Q's at work. Exciting hey?
1) You said that there was a rather large gargoyle clan somewhere outside of London. That we just happened to only see Grif, Una, and Leo.
What is their purpose for staying at that store?
2) Do they keep in correspondence with the rest of the clan?
3) How often do they visit?
4) For question one. Was it the clans' idea for the shop or just Una, Grif, and Leo's?
5) When Grif vanshied with Goliath and was missing for all that time, did the clan try and search for him? Where they even informed? (duh but still)
6) Did Una and Leo continue to stay at that store in the hope that Grif would return someday? Or was it just some job that they were assigned and Grif or no they stayed??
7) About Grif and Una. I dont know if someone asked this or not before. I don't recall seeing it. So sorry in advance if this is old news:P But Una seemed to like him a lot. I guess I dont know if they were actually an item or not. Where they? Or was it just Una that felt that way? Or did I totally screw it up again like the whole Angela Gabe thing and she's alone or with Leo for crying out loud??
8) In the event that the answer was "Ya _duh_ they are an item. Haven't you been paying attention in here?". Then will the age differnce that they now have do any damage to the relationship?
Ok, thats enough on that topic. Thanks Greg!;)
1. To earn money. To pay taxes on the land, etc.
2. Yes, constantly. By telephone and e-mail. Also it's not that far away, so I'm sure they glide out there all the time.
3. All the time.
4. The shop has been there for centuries.
5. Of course. You shouldn't look at this as if Leo & Una are some kind of separate entity from the rest of the clan. They're the breadwinners. (And no one said they're the only two who work at the store, they're simply the ones who do it most often.) They live at the estate most of the time, but when working late (or early at the store) have quarters upstairs where they can retire for a cup of tea or turn to stone or whatever.
6. The store belongs to the clan. I'm not saying they didn't occasionally wish that Griff would fly in a window one day, but basically they assumed that he and Goliath perished during the Battle of Britain.
7. No, you're right. Una was in love with Griff, and he cared for her. They weren't mates -- at least not yet -- but that's the direction they were heading. Now, of course, she and Leo are mates. But that partly resulted from shared grief over Griff's seeming death.
8. I think the fact that in the interum, she mated with Leo will have a larger effect than the age difference. That and the fact, that Griff is back off traveling the world with Arthur
1. Does he use human magic or fae, or perhaps a combination of the two? If he does use human spells wouldn't that be mixing magics, given his half fae status? (The same applying if he uses a combination of spells)
2. Merlin's age various from source to source. About how much older than Arthur is he?
3. How would you describe Merlin's personality? Eccentric but wise and kindly like in T. H. White's story, or a wry, enigmatic codger like in the movie Excalibur?
1. He can use either, but he has to be careful not to mix. Or if he does mix, to mix very carefully.
2. We talking chronilogically or biologically?
In your opinion, is much of Merlin's status as "the greatest wizard of all time" thanks (from the perspective of the Gargoyles Universe) to his being a biological son of Oberon's? Given how much magic Oberon must have in him, it does seem logical that an offspring of his, even a halfling, would have more magic to inherit than a halfling child of any other fay, or a fully-human wizard.
Merlin was certainly born with a lot of magical potential. But potential can be squandered. (Just look at my life over the last four years.) Merlin worked to become a great wizard.
Hello I'm a really big fan of Gargoyles, I watch the show all the time.
Well here's my Q.
Is there anywhere on the web that your spin-offs are in print, or are they only at the gatherings?
Pretty much only at the Gathering. But you can get a lot of info on them by checking the following ASK GREG archives...
Re your answer to my "Round Table" question:
You're right; I'd forgotten about the Stone of Destiny in its "Sword in the Stone" phase. Well, since your answer reminded me of that, I thought I'd ask a couple of Stone of Destiny questions now:
1. You mentioned having planned to include an episode reflecting the Stone's real-life return to Scotland in the "Pendragon" spin-off. Would the episode have been set during the actual return itself, or afterwards with the Stone already back in Scotland at the beginning of the story?
2. If you had done the episode, would you have explained in it how the Stone of Destiny got to be wherever the young Arthur pulled the sword out of it to become King the first time around (given that in actual history, it would have been in either Ireland or Dalriada at the time, rather than, say, London - where the traditional stories locate the Sword in the Stone)?
1. The former for sure. The latter if I came up with something.
2. Eventually all would be explained. But I'm not sure how much room for flashbacks I'd have in any one given episode.
What is Morgana la Fay's current relationship with Arthur? Does she still hate him?
Hasn't seen him in awhile. A long while.
What would have Duval's physical cost to using the Grail have been?
I don't want to say now.
1. Did you ever have a love-interest planned for Arthur?
2. If so, care to talk about her?
1. Perhaps more than one.
2. Not at this time.
Which of the eight Arthurian survivors would have been the female acquantance that would have accompanied Arthur on his quests?
I'm also glad the prize went to Todd... He's the Arthurian expert over here after all, and if it was not for him *noone* would have guessed Blanchefleur... :-)
Anyway, here's another question concerning Morgana: Changelings were traditionally swapped for mortal children. Is this also the case here? And have you thought about what happened to the mortal child she replaced? (My thoughts on the subject, would most probably represent a story idea...)
Btw.. something else I've thought for a while now... Most modern versions of the Arthur legend have combined a number of characters in one: In "Excalibur" the characters of Nimue, Morgana, Morgause are combined in Morgana. The Merlin mini-series also had Morgana combined with Morgause (even though Nimue was separate). I know that other tales combine the characters of Morgana and/or Nimue with that of the Lady of the Lake.
You seem to be the exception and I'm rather glad of that... (in fact one of the reasons I hesitated early on to place Nimue in my guesses was that I was always combining her with either Morgana or the Lady of the Lake in my mind, rather than a separate character) Anyway, here's a question... I now know that atleast these three characters (Morgana, Nimue, Lady of the Lake) would be separate individuals... How about Morgause? Would you also keep her separate, or would you combine her with Morgana as others have done?
I know exactly who Morgana was traded for. I pretty much gave it away in my post where I confirmed Todd's guess for the eight survivors.
And yes, Morgause exists as a completely separate character in the GARG-UNIVERSE.
Thanks in advance for the prize for winning the "Arthurian survivors" contest, Greg. Now, a couple of questions I'd like to ask about one particular survivor, Morgana:
1. You mentioned in your account of how the "Arthurian Eight" survived that Morgana is a changeling in the original sense (a faerie baby swapped for a human one). Does this mean that, in your Masterplan, she's not actually Arthur's *biological* half-sister or related to him by blood, but instead "adopted"?
2. I also noticed that you spelt her name "Morgana" rather than "Morgan". Were you planning to take this "different form of name" for the character, in the event that she showed up in "Gargoyles" or the "Pendragon" spin-off, in order to avoid getting her confused with Officer Morgan?
1. "Adopted" suggests her human-parents (Igraine & Gorlois) knew she wasn't theirs and took her in anyway. But see, Morgana's a CHANGEling and there was an exCHANGE. (As I understand it, that's how it was supposed to work.) So no, in my opinion Morgana is not a blood relation to Arthur. Though he doesn't know it. That does NOT mean that Arthur's actual sister isn't part of the tapestry.
2. Yeah, more or less. But frankly, I won't be held to that. Name similarities actually interest me a lot. Coyote Trickster and the Coyote robot. Peter Maza and Petros Xanatos. Carlos Maza and Charles Canmore. These were and were not accidents.
Me and my daddy were at a party today, and I lost my tooth. On your two questions, the part where you said "the faerie baby swapped", I thought that the word was very amusing for me. It was very vaporizick.
I love you Mommy and Daddy and Erin and Benny and Norman and Bigtime and Iggy.
What sort of antagonist do you picture Duval as being? Do you see him as a very malevolent figure, like Thailog and the Archmage, or a more "greyish" enemy, like Macbeth?
Both. (And that's not meant to be a smart-ass response.)
I'm revising one of my earlier questions here, since you had (correctly) pointed out that I had made it cover way too much ground.
1. How did Guinevere feel about Arthur's alliance with gargoyles - and about gargoyles in general?
2. How did Lancelot feel about them?
1. Haven't definitively worked that out in my head yet.
Is there any connection between Duval's Fisher King role (guardian of the Holy Grail) and those rejuvenation drugs that they give the older members of the Illuminati such as Mace Malone?
We know that Nimue, Blanchefleur,Morgana le Fay and Lady of the Lake are the female Arthurian survivors.
You said that one of them would be traveling with Griff and Arthur. I know it can't be Morgana or Lady of the Lake. So it must be Nimue or Blanchefleur and I am guessing it is Nimue. Can you please tell me if I am right ?
You mentioned once that one of the places that you would have sent King Arthur and Griff during their quest for Merlin was Tintagel. If you had gotten to do that episode, would you have been likely to include in it some fictionalized form or other of your near-religious experiences that you had there?
I don't know. Maybe. I'd have to think on that.
Speaking of Percival, some time ago, I was reading a book about the Grail legends which mentioned a medieval German Grail romance where the knights who guarded the Holy Grail for the Fisher King were sometimes sent out in secret to rule kingdoms whose thrones had become vacant, although under strict orders not to reveal that they came from the Grail Castle. Was this where you got the idea for the Fisher King heading the Illuminati? That behavior certainly sounds very proto-Illuminati-ish.
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I think the question that you sent was very close.
I don't think so.
I've been meaning to ask you about this ever since your little "Bastards" ramble, but never got around to it until now. You gave a list of Arthurian figures who fit this archetype: Arthur himself, Merlin, Mordred, Galahad, and Percival.
Now, Merlin, Mordred and Galahad are all definitely illegitimate in the traditional legends, and the circumstances of Uther's visit to Igraine at Tintagel would make Arthur's legitimacy a matter of controversy, so all four of them can indeed be fitted into that archetype. (I'd hesitate at calling Galahad a bastard, mind, but that's another story :)
What puzzles me, though, is your inclusion of Percival in the list. I don't recall anything in any version of the Arthurian legend that I've read about him being illegitimate. The closest that I can think of is his secret rearing by his mother away in the woods after the death of his father and older brothers to keep him from finding out about knights. Is this what led to your classification of him as a "bastard"?
I liked the questions because they were very animated.
I like the question too. In my mind, Percival was the illegitimate son of Gawaine. (You need to reread your Lancelyn Green very carefully.) This interests me because, as I've mentioned before, I have this sense that the true Bastard archetype in Arthurian lore has not been filled by a true Bastard, but by Gawaine himself. The archetype trying to take a break from himself, and largely failing.
And now, my son Benny has woken up from his nap and is joining us.
Ben (age 3) responds:
1.In Lighthouse in a Sea of Time, Macbeth said that Merlins magic was stronger than anything, exept the human heart. Was this a reference to the Lancelot/Guinevere affair or to Romeo and Juliet?
Why would it be a reference to Romeo and Juliet?
It was mostly Lance and Gwen. Though other issues of the heart were also involved. Specifically, Arthur and Gwen.
My guess for the the 8 arthurian survivors.
5.Lady of the Lake
8.Morgan le fay
You mentioned a while ago your having rather liked Goodrich's notion that Lancelot's name was really a French distortion of "Angus". If you had done the "Pendragon" spin-off and brought Lancelot into it somewhere (presumably via flashback since I get the impression that he's not one of the eight survivors), would you have used this concept?
Maybe, maybe not. For starters, it's HER concept. I'm not sure legally if I could. I'd have had to look into that.
And of course, by now, you know that Lance wasn't one of the survivors, so I'm not sure how much of him we'd have ever seen.
Still, I might have used a more traditional Lance as a starting point.
In a post related to (though not actually part of) the "Arthurian Survivors" contest: I thought that I'd raise the question about the three famous Arthurian artifacts, Excalibur, the Holy Grail, and the Round Table. Now, we definitely know that Excalibur still exists in the Gargoyles Universe. It seems more than likely that the Holy Grail's still around, given that you were going to send Arthur and Griff after it once they had found Merlin, and Duval's Fisher King role. But how about the Round Table? Is it still extant in the Gargoyles Universe, or has it been destroyed?
It would have to be extent. Because what fun would it be if it wasn't?
And you left out the stone.
And I left out the anvil. Which I'm still considering.
Hail Mr. Weisman. Or do you prefer Greg? In any case, here are my questions...
1. Just what are Arthur's powers? He can sense the Stone of Destiny when he nears it in London and is capable of defeating MacBeth in single combat (no small feet considering the latter's centuries of experience). As I recall, Arthur, though a good warrior, was never the strongest in Camelot. A master strategist and tactician yes, but Lancelot was his combat better (at least when Excalibur is taken out of the equation). Plus the Weird Sisters once said in Avalon "beware the sleeping king, his power is great" or something to that effect. So just what are his abilities? Simply heightened awareness and battle prowess or something more, as befits the once and future king?
2. I assume Arthur was born with these talents but did Merlin have a hand in helping him improve them? (I'm probably going to get a response like: 'Merlin helped him with everything' but I'm asking anyway.)
P.S. Thanks. It's always great when important T.V. folk such as yourself take time out of their busy schedule to talk to us yokels. Bob Skir who (as I'm sure you know) wrote several episodes of Gargoyles like 'Future Tense', has a similar site for Beast Machines. Thanks again for putting up with our fanboy crap. Though I suspect it does wonders for your ego. :)
1. He's trained to be slightly more attuned to the mystic than most. (Sleeping for a few centuries on Avalon probably doesn't hurt.) And when you're comparing Arthur to his Knights, you need to think in terms of the equivalent to a Major League All-Star Team, with Arthur being the weary veteran catcher. Compared to Lance, he may not have been much of a swordsman, but that's like comparing Hank Aaron to, well, almost anyone. Arthur's got the stuff. And now he's had a lot of recuperative time. And, as you mentioned, he's got Excalibur. But he's human. Strictly human.
2. Merlin was a good teacher.
And, yeah, I enjoy this. (95% of the time, anyway.)
First off I would like to say that I think it is great that you take the time to interact with all of us.
I'm was just reading your latest responses on Arthur and got to thinking about your Pendragon spinoff. I was just wondering if you have tried to sell the idea to any of the other networks?
Of all the spinoffs you have thought of, Pendragon would probably be the easiest to reshape into something that would not resemble Gargs and still catch the flavor of your vision and writing. (Just don't make his knights some silly robot ala Sherlock Holmes, UGH!!) Or does Disney hold the rights to Pendragon as well?
Just some thoughts, thanks for listening.
My Pendragon spin-off comes directly out of Gargoyles. Disney owns it. I could start from scratch with other Arthur ideas I have, but it wouldn't be what we've discussed here at ASK GREG.
The Arthurian Survivors:
1. King Arthur
3. The Lady of the Lake
6. Morgan Le Fay
8. The Fisher King
I'll take a stab at the 8 Arthurian survivors:
1. King Arthur
4. The Lady of the Lake
6. The Fisher King
8. Morgan le Fay
Ihav no clue if this contest is over but here is my try
3.Lady of the lake
6.Morgana La Fay
day late and a point short...
Okay! Second question! Macbeth!!! He's got to be one of my favorite antagonists, because he's not truly evil at heart and such.
1) Would King Arthur and Macbeth ever crossed paths again? I'm like positive this answers yes so onto the next question.
2) I'm pretty much guessing that King Arthur isn't immortal. He's always captured my fancy because he was a regular man, who accomplished so much. With help from others and such but hey.... now to my question so its not off topic. Would Macbeth of ever inherited Excalibur?
(10 to 1 you don't give the answer to that. heheh)
2. Inherited? No. Not the word I'd use.
Some Questions About MacBeth:
1) In "A light house in the sea of time," MacBeth says "The Scrolls of Merlin, Seeld by my own hand." Did he mean the He (MacBeth) seeled the scrolls?
2) If that is the case, then did MacBeth know Arthur and
Merlin, or were they before his time? In pendragon, he did seem kinda shocked that that was King Arthur, so it make for a conflict.
the Next two also relate to MacBeth...
3. Did Macbeth Know that a play was being written about him by Shakespear and did he ever "see" the play?
4. Did Demona ever see MacBeth, because she knew it was about Macbeth?
5. Did MacBeth MEET Shakespear?
1. No. (Admit it, no one ever reads the archives.) Macbeth was reading that. Meaning, he read that Merlin sealed it with HIS own hand.
2. So, no, they were before his time.
3. Yes. And yes.
4. I'm sure she's seen it.
5. Yes. (Yeah, no one ever reads the archives.)
After reading your answer to ExoLex, I thought that I'd weigh in with my two cents. I wasn't at all bothered by the fantasy elements in the series (partly because I like myths and legends), and I did think that you did a good job of balancing it. I might add that what I really liked about it was that you actually got in a sense of the significance of the legends that you were drawing on.
Take your use of Merlin in "A Lighthouse in the Sea of Time", one of my favorite episodes. Lots of animated series out there bring King Arthur and Merlin in at some point ("The New Batman/Superman Adventures" did it with an episode pitting Batman against a pet demon of Merlin's named Etrigan, for example). But the episode actually tackled - successfully, IMHO - the meaning that the Arthurian legend has to us. Macbeth got that very eloquent and moving speech about the importance of Arthur and Merlin's achievements that so impressed Broadway, all about Arthur as "a king who ruled with justice and compassion". Merlin's scrolls turn out to contain, not his magical secrets, but something even more valuable - his eyewitness account of King Arthur's time. (I can't help wondering what impact the Scrolls of Merlin must have had on Arthurian scholarship in the Gargoyles Universe - finally, another eyewitness account to "Arthurian" Britain besides Gildas's "De Excidio Britanniae"! Hudson and Broadway were right to urge Goliath not to burn those scrolls!) And Merlin, in a sense, plays his role as tutor, from beyond the Crystal Cave, to Hudson and Broadway, just as he did to the young Arthur 1500 years ago, by teaching the two gargoyles the worth of reading (although Jeffrey Robbins should get part of the credit in Hudson's case, of course).
I did think, as well, that while more "fantastic" in some ways than the average animated action/adventure series set in the modern world (such as "Batman"), "Gargoyles" did feel in other ways more realistic. The New York of "Gargoyles" felt much more like a real modern-day city than do, say, Gotham City or Metropolis, even in the crime scene (the leading criminal figure in Manhattan being Tony Dracon, an "ordinary" mob boss, rather than somebody like the Joker).
Thanks for the vote of confidence.
Of course, all that Arthur stuff meant a lot to me too. I wanted to really evoke Arthur and Merlin in "Lighthouse". Who better to do it than Macbeth?
And, yeah, I like to think that in the context of all our wierdness, that the series was grounded in a world that felt real.
A response to your post on shocking moments in Gargoyles-
I was genuinely suprised by all three endings in the Hunter's Moon episodes. I saw PT 2 and figured the episode would be continued right as Robyn had her finger over the button, but then...SHE PRESSED IT!! The missile went off, the colck tower exploded! There was no going around that, they showed the explosion! I was in 8th grade at the time of it's original airing, and I remember sitting in my science class and wondering how they would ever get out of that situation? Where would they live now? With Elisa? I certainly NEVER would have guessed that Xantatos would show up and save them, but, it worked. I loved it. I was at the edge of my seat with my mouth open in awe, I couldn't wait until the GOLIATH CHRONICLES aired in January...
You did a great job, very dramatic story telling that took risks and still made sense. I loved it. Gargoyles is one of the finest television series ever. Because of you and Gargoyles, I have taken an interest in mythology, Shakespeare, Arthurian Legends, Animation. It covers EVERYTHING. I read T.H. Whites "Once and Future King" over the summer (while ASK YOU was down) just because I wanted to know more about these subjects that interested me in the show. I'm a Senior in High School and for my Senior Project, I'm Illustrating in comic book fashion 3 of shakespeare's plays...WHY? Because of Gargoyles. You have opened up so many doors to me, and I thank you.
Thank you! You just made my night.
If the team and I introduced you to Shakespeare and White, then we really did something worthwhile. By the way, have you read White's "Book of Merlin". It's a wonderful final chapter to "Once and Future King". The scene with the hedgehog always breaks my heart.
Ok..the Arthurian survivors:
3)Lady of the Lake
6)Morgan le fey
8)Pelles (Fisher King)
hope that's them!!
By now you know the correct answers. Thanks for playing.
A fresh effort to do the eight Arthurian survivors correctly.
1. King Arthur
3. The Lady of the Lake
4. Sir Percival
6. Morgan le Fay
8. The Green Knight (the one whom Gawain had that encounter with)
Thank you. Come again.
No, wait! Eight points. Eight out of eight. FINALLY, A WINNER! And Todd, I have to admit, I'm kinda glad it's you, since you've been the most dedicated to exploring the Arthurian angle here in ASK GREG.
As to the speculation of how they survived, well, I was gonna make another contest out of it, but I realized it would violate my NO IDEAS policy, so...
1. King Arthur Pendragon. Slept under a spell in the Hollow Hill.
2. Merlin. Son of Oberon by a mortal woman. Imprisoned in the Crystal Cave.
3. The Lady of the Lake. One of the Oberati.
4. Sir Percival. The Fisher King. Mr. Duval. Founder of the Illuminati. Spends a lot of time in Castle Carbonek, a sort of mini-traveling-Avalon, where time passes differently. Also uses the Holy Grail to maintain his youth, though at a very real physical cost, due to his, shall we say, sins.
5. Lady Blanchefleur. Percival's wife. Queen of Castle Carbonek. She lives there and uses the Grail. The only cost being her estrangement from Percival.
6. Morgana le Fay. A changling in the old-fashioned sense.
7. Nimue. A sorceress with connections to Merlin, the Oberati and Morgana. (Think about it.)
8. The Green Knight. An Oberati.
Anyway, the above revelations are a gift I'm giving all of you on Todd's behalf. Thank him. Todd, to claim your prize, have Gore or DemonaCrzy forward your e-mail address to me.
Just read your response to my "Arthurian writers" queries, and thanks. I've read all the ones on the list myself, and have copies of their books (except for Berger's "Arthur Rex", and I've read that one via a library copy).
I liked Green myself, and remember particularly the fact that he did a good job of restoring Gawain to some of his earlier heroic role before the later medieval writers such as Malory tarnished him - in particular, how Green gave Gawain a partial success on the Grail Quest. (He does keep on the bit at the end where Gawain wants to avenge Gareth upon Lancelot, and helps bring about the disaster, but it's an integral part of the story, and in any case, Gawain really comes across as more of a "flawed but decent" person there. I see it as closer to Goliath's desire to avenge Angela and Elisa upon the Hunters in "Hunter's Moon" than to Demona's wanting revenge on humanity or Castaway's wanting revenge on gargoylity - Gawain had the wisdom to not seek revenge for Agravain's death at Lancelot's hands because Agravain brought it upon himself via his own envy of Lancelot, and has a legitimate complaint with Gareth's death - Gareth was the innocent one who was Lancelot's friend and wouldn't betray him, so Gawain was at least avenging the right person there, if you can avenge the right person at all).
I liked your comments on Stewart. Re Mordred in "The Wicked Day" - I will confess that I prefer to see Mordred as a villain myself, rather than as a maligned figure. But I did understand Stewart's decision. One thing that always bothered me about the traditional legend was Arthur putting Mordred in charge of his kingdom in his absence, in spite of the fact that Mordred's an open villain who's been doing all sorts of evil deeds (such as helping to murder Lamorak or expose Lancelot and Guinevere) for years - to me, it feels like Goliath making Thailog his second-in-command, aware all the while of Thailog's track record in "Double Jeopardy", "Sanctuary", and "The Reckoning". Stewart's version made Arthur's behavior less blatantly stupid there. (Of course, in Geoffrey of Monmouth, Mordred's record has been apparently blameless before Arthur puts him in charge of the kingdom, so again, it doesn't come across as such an unbelievable blunder there either).
Gawaine is a particular favorite of mine. As I've mentioned, I have an affinity for BASTARDS. (I think I must have been one in a former life. No cracks please.) Arthurian legend is full of bastards, but most don't fit the THESEAN profile. (Sure Arthur and Theseus have a lot of superficial traits in common, but their personalities are night and day.) Gawaine does. I can't help wondering whether the archetypal bastard thought he was taking a vacation by reincarnating as a legitimate first born son. It made him particularly obssessed with family honor (compensating, you know) and otherwise didn't change his personality at all.
Green, I'm sure had an influence on me. And don't forget, Gawaine tried to repent his quest for vengeance against Lancelot. I like the guy.
As for Mordred, I have no problem with the notion of trying to humanize him. He was a human being after all. But doing it at the expense of other figures? It felt like cheating.
3.Lady of the Lake
5.Garlon (the invisible knight from Le'Morte de Arthur)
You said that King Arthur had some prior acquaintance with gargoyles during his reign. I imagine that you would have gone into greater detail with this had you done the "Pendragon" spin-off, but a couple of questions on this matter that I'd like to ask you anyway:
1. Was Arthur's contact with gargoyles fairly secret - like Elisa's for example, or was it some sort of public alliance, like that of Macbeth with Demona's clan or Prince Malcolm and Princess Katharine with the Wyvern clan?
2. How did Guinevere and the leading knights of the Round Table (such as Lancelot) feel about gargoyles - and about Arthur's familiarity with them (assuming that they were aware of the latter)?
1. Some of each.
2. Too big a question, Todd. Think of all the characters the phrase: "Guinevere and the leading knights of the Round Table" includes.
I think I have solved the riddle of the Arthurian survivors:
1. King Arthur (Obviously)
2. Merlin (Imprisoned in the Crystal Cave)
3. Nimue (Trapped with Merlin)
4. The Lady of the Lake (A faerie)
5. Perceval (Heir of the Fisher King and thus preserved by the Grail)
6. Blanchefleur (Same extended to Perceval's wife)
7. Morgan le Fay (Preserved by her magic)
8. Queen Mab (Usurped by her son Oberon but imprisoned somewhere on Avalon)
The last is the uncertainty. You have already stated that she exists in the Gargoyles Universe but I have been wracking my brain to remember if she was an Arthurian character. I know she was a figure of British mythology and was in a great many poems (The Faerie Queene, Le Belle Dame Sans Merci) but her connection to Arthur is tenuous. So how about it? Have I guessed right?
Though I won't comment on your parantheticals. Some are correct, some are not.
1. King Arthur
3. Lady of the Lake
Hello again Mr.Weisman, I thought I would take one more stab at this Arthurian contest:
2)The Lady of the Lake
5)Morgana Le Fey
Thankyou very much.
1. King Arthur
3. Lady of the lake
4. Morgana le Fey
TYCA (Thank you. Come again.)
Hi again. By the time you see this question, the last Arthurian survivor will probably have been identified and a lot more about Pendragon be known, possibly making this question irrelevant, but just in case: 1) Does Duval share the immortality granted by the Grail with anyone else? 2) Have any of the other survivors made it to the present day through time-traveling? 3) If the answer to #2 is yes, was the Pheonix Gate involved?
3. Yes. (You figure it out.)
1. Arthur Pendragon
2. Lady of the Lake
7. Morgana le Fae
8. Lord Oberon
Reason for #8 Um, can we say Loop hole? You said yourself that Oberon is Merlin's father, therefore he's from the Arthurian period. And we can clearly see he's still alive. :)
And YES, I'm a goober.
Six points. (See my previous answers and forty lashes for you, since you didn't check the archives which long ago ruled out Oberon, Puck, Titania and Mab as contest-answer survivors.)
1. Arthur Pendragon
2. Lady of the Lake
7. Morgana le Fae
8. Queen Maeb
Reason for #8 well, Maeb did figure into some of the Arthurian legends...even in the NBC miniseries "Merlin." And you've talked about possible inclusion of her in the series, that Oberon merely imprissoned her...She's still alive.
Well, as I mentioned once before, I wasn't counting Mab as particularly Arthurian. Frankly, before the "Merlin" mini-series, I had never encountered that character in an Arthurian context. So yes, Mab survives. But she doesn't count in my book. By the same token, Merlin's father could be considered an "Arthurian Character" and thus Oberon could be considered a survivor too. But that's not the kind of thing I had in mind for the contest.
Having said all that, you scored six.
Thank you. Come again.
1. King Arthur
3. Lady of the Lake
6. Morgana la Fay
(This is a cheezy strategy, Greg. But it's working.)
1. King Arthur
3. Lady of the Lake
6. Morgana la Fay
Seven points. (Didn't someone guess this combo already?)
Thank you. Come again.
Third shot at the Arthurian Survivors...
3. Lady of the Lake
6. Sir Percival
7. Sir Galahad
Thank you. Come again.
Second shot at the Arthurian Survivors...
1. King Arthur
2. Lady of the Lake
6. Sir Percival
A new plateau.
Thank you. Come again.
Me again, Greg! Just trying my hand at the Arthurian survivors.
3) Lady of the Lake
4) Parcival (Percival, however you spell it)
5) Morgan Le Fey (Morgana)
8) (alright, this is the one I DON'T know, so I'm just going to take an [egotistical] shot in the dark with what limited Arthurian knowledge I have) Blaise
Just let me know the score!
Whew. Someone finally got over the six point barrier.
Good work. (Just not quite good enough.)
And of course...
Thank you. Come again.
In your mind do you think dragons are evil or good? In the course of the show there are several references to these fantasy creatures. In the Gargoyles world are there any good dragons or only evil ones. Because in the episode "Pendragon" the stone dragon seems to be bad. It was only a stone dragon. However, is there a race of dragons like gargoyle or are they only a species of fantasty creatures?
The stone dragon in "Pendragon" was a magical construct. Or at any rate it was brought to a semblance of life by magic. It wasn't truly alive. And I don't consider it a true dragon. Nor do I consider it evil. It was "programmed" to perform a specific function. To test for the one true king.
I'm not going to confirm or deny the existance of real dragons in the gargoyles universe, but if you've watched the series, you'll know thematically that I would never define an entire species, gargoyle, fae, human or dragons (if there are dragons) as either good or evil. To quote Goliath, "There is good and evil in all of us, human and gargoyle alike."
Nothing is one thing. Let alone an entire species.
1.Arthur 2.Merlin 3.Lady of the Lake 4.Perceval 5.Galahad 6.Morgana 7.Bedivere 8.Nimue
Thank you, come again.
(I feel like this guess came in already.)
Thanks for answering my "religion" question. Actually, there are two human characters in the series that you left out whom I'm curious about:
b) King Arthur
What (in your opinion) are their current religions? In particular, do you see the King Arthur of the Gargoyles Universe as a Christian (as per the traditional legends) or something else?
I think Macbeth has been many things over the years. Obviously, he started as a Catholic. Now, I figure he's fairly omnireligious.
As for Arthur, I think he's a Christian. Officially, something of a Catholic... He probably hasn't had cause or opportunity to change.
Which of the seven series was Queen Mab supposed to appear in?
Gargoyles. Maybe TimeDancer, though I had no specific plans for that. Possibly Pendragon too.
But mostly Gargoyles.
Here I go again
3. Lady of the Lake
5. Morgana la Fay
Thank you. Come again.
(This is getting scary.)
Sorry to be back so soon with another line up for the Arthurian survivors but this one I just came up with seems more likely than the previous one (boy am I going to look stupid when this one turns out to be wrong too).
2)Lady of the Lake
4)Morgana Le Fey
Thank you. Come again.
(I should have a function key, that just types that up.)
Hello Mr. Weisman,
First of all, thank you for answering my questions.
Here are my guesses for the Arthurain survivors:
3)Lady of the Lake
5)Morgana Le Fey
8)The Green Knight
Thank you very much.
Thank you. Come again.
(This is getting a bit repetitive.)
An earlier guess of mine but with a different Grail Damsel :).
1.Arthur 2.Merlin 3.Lady of the Lake 4.Perceval 5.Galahad 6.Morgana 7.Nimue 8.Cundry
Thank you. Come again.
Another shot at the Arthurian Survivors
3. Lady of the Lake
5. Morgana la Fay
Thank you. Come again.
In your opinion, what's Titania's attitude towards Merlin? (I hope for Merlin's sake that it's nothing along the lines of Hera's attitude towards Zeus's illegitimate offspring such as Heracles).
Her attitude when?
In both "Avalon Part Three" and "Pendragon", it was made clear that King Arthur had been awakened "ahead of schedule", well before the time of Britain's greatest hour of need when he was meant to return from Avalon: Arthur admits it in "Avalon Part Three" and the Stone of Destiny and the Lady of the Lake both say as much in "Pendragon". If you had made the "Pendragon" spin-off, would this element have been addressed in it, that Arthur had been awakened by Elisa before the appointed time - and what the possible consequences for it could be for Britain when it reached the point that it needed Arthur's return?
Absolutely. Believe me, I wouldn't have gone to so much trouble to point it out if it wasn't for a reason. I'm not really that subtle a guy, am I?
Is there a special story behind the flute of Puck that was seen in "Gathering, Part I"? Or the harp seen in "Lighthouse in the Sea of Time"? Were you planning to do stories on either or both of the two?
I had planned on using the flute in THE GATHERING, PART TWO -- and it's probably a mistake that I didn't. I wanted Puck to use it to temporarily subdue Oberon, but it got away from me somehow.
But yes, the flute definitely interested me, and I would have done something with it eventually.
The harp, I hadn't given any real thought to. But it could probably come into play down the road in Pendragon.
When the your envolvement with the series ended, where you happy with the character of Arthur.
I was happy with him up to that point...
As many of you know, I had hoped to spin him off into his own show, PENDRAGON. And I'm sorry I didn't get to tell those stories, but I'm happy enough with the two stories we did tell with him.
You gave a list here once of Arthurian writers that you've read: Geoffrey of Monmouth, Sir Thomas Malory, T. H. White, Mary Stewart, Roger Lancelyn Green, John Steinbeck, Thomas Berger, and Norma Lorre Goodrich, as I recall. I was wondering if you might be interested in giving your opinions (in brief, of course) on their Arthurian writings - and Goodrich, in particular. Having read her Arthurian books myself, I'm curious as to what you thought of them. (My own response to them was that the author had an engaging style, but a lot of her notions struck me as improbable - such as her effort to substantially revise Arthurian geography by putting everything up in Scotland - and I even detected a number of factual errors and slip-ups in them).
Believe it or not, I've never read Malory from cover to cover. I've read huge chunks of it. And I've skimmed the whole thing. But he doesn't really engage me as a writer. I'm not sure why.
Thus, it is Roger Lanelyn Green who almost acts as my so-called primary source. God, I loved that little book.
Geoffrey was endlessly fascinating.
Steinbeck didn't finish, which was frustrating. It wasn't the best read.
Berger was a lot of fun. Though I don't personally "believe" many of his interpretations of the legends, it was a great read.
I loved Stewart's THE CRYSTAL CAVE. But with each successive book, I found less and less to connect with Stewart's interpretations. And her Mordred book really bummed me out. It seemed like she felt a need to turn Mordred into a real hero at the expense of just about anyone else. Bugged me.
T.H. White's ONCE AND FUTURE KING. I love this book. And I love his "Book of Merlyn." Beautiful writing. Human and fanciful. Irresistable to me.
As for Goodrich, well, I don't have the background to argue her facts. I found much of the material unconvincing and flat-out dull. But I thought she had one real insight. Lancelot has always been viewed as a late addition to the mythology. As a character who was probably NOT historical. (Whereas Arthur likely was.) Her linguistic explanation, connecting Malory's Lancelot with Monmouth's Angus was very convincing. I'll try and duplicate it here...
ANGUS latinized becomes something like ANGUSELUS.
But Anguselus was a title that could properly be rendered as THE ANGUSELUS.
Frenchifying this would make it L'ANGUSELOS. With the last letter silent.
Over time, it would not be unlikely for the name to be simplified. If a syllable got dropped it could very easily become L'ANSELOS.
And if the last S is silent (as it likely would be in French) then it could easilty become an equally silent "T". Thus L'ANSELOT.
Or LANCELOT once it was anglicized again.
This may sound like a stretch. And I may not be doing it justice above. But early Celtic accounts include the character of Angus. Lancelot was assumed to be a later and fictional French addition to the legend. (And thus a character from France.) If Lancelot is in fact Angus, then that lends a certain credence to the entire legend. And I just love that idea.
A new guess for the 8 Arthurian survivors:
1. King Arthur
2. The Lady of the Lake
4. Sir Percival
5. Blanchefleur (Percival's wife in Roger Lancelyn Green)
6. Lohengrin (he's Percival's son in the legends about him, so he probably counts as Arthurian)
7. Morgan le Fay
A little side-note. I happened to see the episode that you wrote for "Disney's Hercules" - I thought I'd mention it after noticing that somebody else on the list mentioned it. I quite enjoyed it - particularly the portrayal of Theseus as a sort of ancient Greek version of "Batman". I also noticed, as a side-note, that there was a certain thematic echo of "Hunter's Moon" in it (although I don't know if you'd intended it or not) where Hercules got so caught up in his efforts to wreak vengeance upon the Minotaur that he lost sight of what was really important, much the same way as Goliath in his pursuit of the Hunters.
First off, Todd, thanks for the kind words.
There are certain themes that interest me, and so you'll see them revisited in my work (probably ad nauseum) over and over. The theme of, well, let's call it "What Profit Vengeance?" is one of my favorites. So I wasn't deliberately trying to echo "Hunter's Moon" so much as I was servicing a set of ideas that seemed apropos to both series.
As for the Theseus-as-Batman stuff. Well, that's a no-brainer. The Superman/Batman dynamic -- that is the teaming of a hero possessing superhuman abilities with a hero who merely makes the best possible use of his human abilities -- originated with Herakles and Theseus. (Or at any rate, it goes back that far.) So the notion of flipping that, and playing Herc/Theseus as Superman/Batman seemed wonderfully ironic and a fertile place to find comedy.
In high school, I acted in a play called THE WARRIOR'S HUSBAND. I played Theseus, and I've had a real affinity for the character ever since. In that play, Hercules was kind of a mope. (Very strong, but a mope.) The Greeks were waging war against the Amazons. Hercules was in charge, but Theseus was the real brains of the operation. Yet he's also the guy who really falls hard in love for Antiope, sister to Queen Hyppolyta. So instead of conquering -- as he had originally intended -- Theseus winds up manipulating everyone into a compromise. I like that in a hero.
Theseus is part of a sub-genre of archetypes, (an off-shoot of Trickster figures like Puck, Coyote or Odysseus/Ulysses). He's the primary example of the Archetype of "THE BASTARD", which includes such diverse characters as Shakespeare's Edmund from KING LEAR, Joan of Arc's ally Dunois and multiple characters from Arthurian legend (including Merlin, Arthur, Percival, Galahad and Mordred). There are so many parallels between Arthur and Theseus that reading Mary Stewart and Mary Renault seemed almost redundant. (Not really.)
In fact, Luach (or Lulach) is also a prime candidate for that archetype. When he was born, Gruoch was still married to Gillecomgain. But gossip around the castle hinted that the babe's true father was Macbeth. After Macbeth and Gruoch married, Macbeth adopted the boy as his own. At which point the gossip shifted to insist that Gillecomgain was the boy's father. (You can't win.) Pre-DNA testing, there would be no way for Luach to ever be certain of the truth. Maybe Macbeth didn't even know. Hell, Gruoch might not know.
Life's a bitch when you're a bastard.
Aside from the Illuminati, what did you have planned in the way of villains for PENDRAGON?
I have a few ideas, but I'm not going to list them here because of the rules.
This'll have to wait 'til you know what is over.
1. King Arthur
3. the Lady of the Lake
4. Morgan Le Fay
Six points though.
(Anyone with a basic knowledge of Algebra should be damn close to solving this contest.)
1.did goliath and co ever tell macbeth or demona of what happened on avalon and if so how did they react?
My guess is that no one filled Macbeth in. If they had, then Macbeth would have reacted differently to Arthur in "Pendragon". It's possible that Angela told Demona about it during her "Reckoning" incarceration. But then again, maybe she didn't. I'm not sure that Angela would feel any value would come out of bringing that up.
And yet another survivors list:
1.Arthur 2.Merlin 3.Lady of the Lake 4.Perceval 5.Galahad 6.Morgana 7.Blanchfleur 8.Nimue
Now we're getting somewhere.
You scored 7. (If this doesn't give it away, nothing will.)
Another shot at the Arthurian Survivors
3. Lady of the Lake
5. Morgana la Fay
You scored 5.
I think I'm giving out the points just to make the thing more interesting for me.
And yet another survivors list:
Arthur, Merlin, Lady of the Lake, Perceval, Bors, Galahad, Blanchfleur, Morgana
No. Boy. I never thought this contest would be so hard. I mean I knew the clan contest would be impossible, but I figured this one would have been nailed ages agot. Should I start giving points here too?
You're answer scored 6.
Do you have voice actors in mind for some of the characters in the unmade spinoffs? Do you have any in mind specifically for Katana, Nashville, Tachi, Duval, The Director, and Merlin?
The Director was cast in our Animatic reel for Bad Guys. He was William Devane. And he was great as anyone who has attended a Gathering could attest to.
As for the others... No. Hadn't thought that far in advance.
Well, first of all, let me congratulate you on an _excellent_ series. It was very refreshing to see a daytime cartoon with such an extensive, intelligent, and well interwoven plot. The first episode I saw was at the end of an all-nighter with some friends who were helping keep me awake to study for a final exam during my 2nd semester of college. By some karmic irony, the episode was entitled _Long Way to Morning_, and it got me (and my friends) hooked. (Any time any of the gang gets to reminiscing, someone always says, in a bad Scottish accent, "Remeber the quest for the archmage...")
Anyway, on to my questions... (I don't think any of them have been asked yet...) Hopefully, I've caught you in the right mood today.
1. What is Mr. Duval's _first_ name?
2. You've told us that Mr. Duval is the Fisher King, but does his current alias give some clue as to his original identity? (For example, Fox's original name was Janine Renard. Renard is French, I believe, for fox.)
3. Somewheres in the archives you mentioned that Oberon & Titania had two children, a boy and a girl. Are they characters that we met during the course of the series (in some way or another)?
Well, I'll keep my number of questions short for now. Thanks again for your time and efforts!
1. I've never given it any thought. Honest.
2. Why don't you just come out and ask who Duval is? Actually, I think this is the worst kept of all my secrets. Which should answer your question.
3. Sorry. Questions on separate topics, must be posted separately.
A humble guess at the Arthurian survivors...
3. Lady of the Lake
4. Morgan le Fay
5. Sir Percival
8. Sir Galahad
So close and yet...
The Immortal Seven:
I'm not sure I have this completely right, but there's some sort of contest to guess which seven characters survived from the time of Arthur's Camelot to the present day. Here are my guesses. First of all, the definants. Arthur, obviously, and, supposedly The Fisher King (Pelles).
If the Fisher King is alive, that means you're probably using Wolfram's version of the Grail, so Pervivale the Welsh is the Grail Knight.
Now we have Arthur, Pelles, and Percival.
Nimue was supposed to be trapped forever with Merlin in the Crystal Cave, and was a nymph. We can probably include both of them.
Arthur, Pelles, Percival, Merlin, Nimue. That leaves 2.
You're probalby drawing mostly from Malory, so we can make some very quick eliminations. Lancelot died as a monk. Gwenivere died as a nun. Galahad died when he saw the Grail, but that's not certain, since Percival and the Fisher King have the grail. However, Galahad only exists as a character in Malory, and only exists to find the Grail. I'm willing to leave him dead. Mordred died at the Last Battle. That kills off most of the sentimental guesses.
Now I'm on my own. Morganna Le Fey is a likely survivor, as her magicks might extend her life. So, we have only one to go. The Lady of the Lake was a character, but I'm not sure she counts, since she's a Fey. I'm going to go with Palamedes, being kept immortal to pursue the Questing Beast.
Thus, the final list is Arthur, Pelles, Percival, Merlin, Nimue, Morganna, and either the Lady of the Lake, or Palamedes. (I lean toward the Lady)
Well, it's a contest, so you have to decide.
But since their are eight survivors, not seven, you could include both. Or would that change your thinking?
Repost and let me know.
8, HUNH? WELL,
2)THE LADY OF THE LAKE
6)MORGAN LE FEY
Well. Eight names. But some are incorrect.
Better luck next time.
here's my first try, at this thing...
THE ARTHURIAN SURVIVORS:
2.)THE LADY OF THE LAKE
7.)MORGAN LE FEY
I hope these are them ?
Did you mean to list Lancelot twice? Or do we have a clone thing happening?
Anyway, there are eight survivors, so at mimumum, you are short two.
Better luck next time.
heyya, i've been looking at those "arthurian survivors" lists; isn't the name for "the lady of the lake" nimue ?
i thought, that i read that, in one of my many arthurian legends books
Not in any of the versions I'm familiar with, though it wouldn't surprise me to see an author conflate the two characters.
Greg, in the Gargoyles universe, what ever happened to Lancelot of Camelot? Did the imfamous love affair with the
Queen take place? Did he meet his demise?
I'd rather not go into too many details here. For one thing it could influence the contest we're holding. But Lancelot did exist in the Gargoyles Universe. The tragic affair with Guenevere did take place. Ask me "Did he meet his demise?" again, after the contest is over.
Hello Greg here are some more quistions
1) Would Demona and her new mate in the future ever have a child or childern together?
2) If Gargoyles was not canceled or it was brought back in the futuer would there be crossovers between Gargoyles and Pendragon?
3) By the time 2058 when all of Demonas grandchildren are still young will she be complety reformed?
4) How long do female gargoyles carry their eggs?
5) Could a female Gargoyle ever have twins?
6) Could a female gargoyle ever have a miscarriage while they were pregnent for their egg. Or if their egg dose not hatch is that considered a miscarrige?
1. Can't reveal that.
2. This really is a separate topic, but it's short, so the answer is yes.
4 - 6. Sorry, by the new rules, questions on separate topics must be submitted on separate posts. I invite you to submit these questions again. (These three can all be in one post.
Hi again Greg. Here's an Arthurian survivors list:
1. King Arthur Pendragon.
3. The Lady of the Lake.
4. Pelles, the Fisher King.
5. Morgana le Fay.
6. Sir Galahad.
7. Sir Bors.
8. Sir Percival.
Nope. But nice specificity.
Yet another survivors list:
1.Arthur 2.Lady of the Lake 3.Merlin 4.Perceval 5.Cundry 6.Blaise 7.Morgana 8.Nimue
Nope. Try again.
What would Oberon and Titania's son and daughter (thanks for providing that tidbit by the way!) feel about their half-siblings, Fox and Merlin? Indifference, annoyance, affection?
Aris, I luv ya guy, but you ask HUGE questions as if they can be answered with a single word like "Indifference".
How does A relate to B?
How does A relate to Fox?
How does A relate to Merlin?
How does B relate to Fox?
How does B relate to Merlin?
And that assumes that A & B even know about Fox and Merlin. That A & B are even among the living?
When questions are that huge, I tend to give no useful information at all.
Maybe you've noticed.
Earlier remarks of yours about "Pendragon" implied that when Arthur and Griff finally did find Merlin, he'd join up with them as some sort of regular. Did you have any plans to keep Merlin's magic from making things too easy for Arthur and Griff in that case - i.e., making sure that Merlin wouldn't become a "deus ex machina" - or in this case, a "magus ex machina". We are talking about a wizard whose very name has become a synonym for "magic", after all. (I won't ask about the details of those plans; I'm just curious as to whether you'd found a way to address the problem).
As with most things, I'd deal with them on a case-by-case basis. But I also had a few ideas about how I'd play my version of the character (and his 20th/21st century persona) that would have made life a bit more interesting.
I hate Deus ex Machina. I wouldn't have made you suffer through it either.
Sorry, I didn't read the rules for the Pendragon Contest. Here are my guesses again.
3. Lady of the Lake
5. Morgana la Fay
Ooh, sorry Greg, try again.
You mentioned once that Merlin is currently in his Crystal Cave. This is probably a question that can't be answered outside of getting to do "Pendragon", but in the Gargoyles Universe, did this start during Arthur's reign (as per Malory), or after he was taken away to Avalon?
Greg- Okay, I just re read (skimmed actually) my copy of Mallory's King Arthur. So, if someone hasn't beaten me to it, here are my guesses-
1. KING ARTHUR
2. THE LADY OF THE LAKE
4. MORGAN LE FAY
7. SIR KAY
Sorry, Derek. Nope.
But try again soon.
1. Who created the stone Dragon that appeared in PENDRAGON?
2. Can you give us some information on Demona's two great loves? From what part of the world will these two loves come from?
3. In LIGHTHOUSE IN THE SEAS OF TIME, when those two explorers entered Merlin's cave, in the background a cauldron can be seen. Is that the Cauldron of Life?
4. What would Titania's response be to Renard's death?
5. Just how long was Talon planning on keeping Fang in a cell?
6. How does Talon feel about raising a Gargoyle/Human hybrid who looks and sounds exactly like his big sister?
7. Once you stated that as late as 2158 Puck would still be around and stuck as Owen in the mortal world. You also stated that the way Owen avoids the effects of aging is that he basically resets himself whenever he transforms from Puck to Owen. If he is stuck as Owen in 2158, then how does he avoid aging?
8. Would we have seen more of the Golem?
9. Did Angela inherit her father's stubborness and her mother's temper or her father's temper and her mother's stubborness?
1. It was done by committee.
As per the new rules, you are invited to submit the rest of your questions as multiple separate posts.
Greetings Greg! (Thanks for signing my Guest book on my site!)
Hmm... First a question, then the contests:
If the purpose of the Hill of the Sleeping King was to maintain Arthur Pendragon's health and age until the time of Britain's greatest need (esentially a "stasis chamber" of some sort), wouldn't the hill also be working on the Magus, since he fell on the cairn there after defeating the Weird Sisters?
Now, the contests:
1. King Arthur
2. The Lady of The Lake
4. Morgana le Fay
The 14 Clans
4. Guatemala Rain Forest
5. Isle of Avalon
6. Manhattan/New York
7. New Olympus Island
10. Amazon Rain Forest
12. Ozark Mountain Range
13. Orbital Colony/Earth
Hope I get at least some of them right. :) Thanks for talking to us Greg! See you in the CR!
Maintain and Check Six!
As to the Arthurian survivors -- Sorry, try again.
As to the clans, you need to submit them on a SEPARATE POST to even get a response. (I gave that admonition on the first day -- so NO SLACK.)
Hi, Greg. I think I'll take a shot at the Arthurian survivors.
2.Lady of the Lake
5.Morgana le Fay
Sorry, Arianna, try again.
Arthurian Survivor Guesses:
Lady of the Lake
Morgana Le Fey
The Green Knight
Blanchefleur (Percival's Wife)
Sorry, Airwalker try again.
Yipes! *Eight* Arthurian survivors? This guessing game just got a little harder! :) But here are my eight guesses (and sorry for not including my original guesses from yesterday in a separate post; that was before you laid down the new rules for the guessing game).
1. King Arthur
2. The Lady of the Lake
4. Sir Percival
5. Morgan le Fay
8. The Grail Damsel
Sorry, Todd try again.
And by the way, AND THIS GOES FOR EVERYONE -- Don't hedge your bets. Be specific or your answer won't count.
The eight Arthurian survivors list:
1. Arthur 2.Lady of the Lake 3.Merlin 4.Perceval 5.Blanchfleur 6.Morgana 7.Green Knight 8.Blaise
Sorry, Aris. Try again.
Officially restarting the contest...
In the Gargoyles Universe, there are eight survivors from the days of King Arthur. (I know I once said seven, but I forgot someone. Which isn't like me.)
Here are the rules. You have to name all eight correctly. Partially correct answers will receive no partial credit. I won't say you got three right and five wrong or whatever. I won't provide any hints at all beyond the following two names:
1. King Arthur
2. The Lady of the Lake
You have six more to guess. Remember, I'm looking for their Arthurian names. Yes, I've mentioned that Duval is one of the survivors, but listing him doesn't count, i.e. it doesn't count as a guess as to who Duval is, who the survivor is.
The winner will get a prize, I think. Nothing of any worth, but something. (Maybe a xerox of my recording script for Pendragon, complete with all my scribblings. That sort of thing seems to go over fairly well.)
You can guess as many times as you like. But always post it as a separate "question" to ASK GREG. Don't lump it in with other questions. And don't make multiple guesses on the same post. Just eight names. First to give me all eight correct in one post, wins.
Hello greg this is my first time I been in asked you quistions so here they are
1) If the Timedancer series was ever made what would Brooklyn's mate look like?
2) If Pendragon was made would Author and Griff find any other Gargoyle Clans when they were looking for Merlin? And also would would Griff ever get a mate. Would she be in Griff's Clan or another?
3) Would Coldstone and Coldfire ever find out thst they have a son on Avolon?
4) In the episode Awakning part 2 Owen said that the locile claim that casle Wyvern is haunted. Was it haunted by the Massacreed Clan members?
Hey Lawrence, welcome...
1. I'm not an artist. So although, I have some vague ideas, I intentionally don't want to nail that down until either (a) the time came for collaboration with an artist or (b) it became clear that the medium where the character was going to be introduced was purely a prose one.
2. Maybe, yes and I'm not sure what you mean.
4. Mostly by Hakon and the Captain.
I thought that I'd better clarify an earlier question/remark that I made about Duval. I asked you earlier as to whether Duval being both Fisher King and head of the Illuminati wasn't something of a conflict of interest; you pointed out, rightly, that unless one knows what Duval's goals are (which haven't been revealed to us) that can hardly be labeled as such. You were correct about that; I hadn't used the most accurate terms for it. So I thought that I'd better clarify my question here a little more (I'm giving it separately from my other questions, just in case it gets interpreted as an idea, although I'm working hard on not making it so).
What puzzles me about Duval's double role as Fisher King and head of the Illuminati is this. The Illuminati have been involved in a lot of unscrupulous activity (deals with organized crime, running the Hotel Cabal, funding Castaway in his unholy war upon the gargoyles, and general controlling the world behind the scenes). Duval, as their leader, must bear much of the responsibility for this. But he's also apparently still the Fisher King, guardian of the Holy Grail, and I'm puzzled as to how he can still be able to fill on that role after everything that he must have done as the head of the Illuminati, which surely must have been a lot worse than - say - committing adultery with Queen Guinevere (and everyone who's read Malory knows what the Grail's attitude was towards that). That's what I don't understand. I'm not expecting any real answer to this (I know that you'd want to keep your plans about Duval and his role as Fisher King secret for now in case you ever get to do more "Gargoyles") but I did want to make it clear what puzzled me so much about Duval's dual role.
I understand your confusion, Todd. Maybe this will help: Everything has its price.
Phew! Nice to have this thing back! Now for some questions that I've been waiting a long time to ask.
1. In "The Journey", during his recruitment speech, Castaway, while playing upon the fears of the citizens in his audience, lists two specific ones: that the gargoyles might attack them while they sleep and that they might kidnap their children. Recently, I found myself realizing something about these fears. Gargoyles obviously fear humans attacking them while they are in their stone sleep, and Demona believed in "The Reckoning" that Princess Katharine and the Magus had kidnapped the eggs. So, were you deliberately going for a notion of "humans and gargoyles fear each other for parallel reasons" when you wrote this scene, or am I just reading too much into it?
2. My new guesses for the 7 Arthurian survivors:
a. King Arthur
c. The Lady of the Lake (so far, the obvious ones :)
d. Sir Percival
e. The Grail Damsel (since she's got a different name in practically every version of the Arthurian/Grail legends, I figured I'd better just put down her position to make it clearer whom I meant)
f. Morgan le Fay
3. One of the most intriguing aspects of the gargoyles in the series, to me, was their initial lack of personal names, something that worked particularly well with me since it made them seem even more "their own unique culture" (I particularly liked the scene where Hudson was asking why humans have to name everything in "Awakening Part Three"). What inspired you and the other members of the production team to come up with this idea?
1. I don't think you're reading too much in, but you need to keep in mind that I was breathing gargoyles at the time. It filled my thoughts. Whether I was conscious of those specifics parallels, doesn't answer whether they were intentional or not. Does that help?
2. We're up to eight now. Plus guesses need to be on their own post. Note: it's best to be as specific as possible. Bet hedging is no way to win a silly contest.
3. Originally, desperation. We had a hell of a time getting names approved. Coming up with a rationale for waiting until the twentieth century to name most of our characters was an inspiration I was grateful my boss went for. Fortunately, he saw that it solved all our problems. Gave us young characters with names that had a more contemporary, yet fun feel. Allowed Goliath to stand out from the crowd more. Made Demona's name less silly and more chilling. Etc. Making Gargoyles a unique culture was the solution to a difficult problem. One of the many things, that just made the show feel "right".
Glad you're back, Mr. Weisman! Here are a few questions I've pondered over:
1) If the series had ever shown Merlin, how do you envision his physical appearence? Would he have been along the lines of the white-bearded Disney version from "Sword in the Stone", or the younger, clean-shaven version from "Excalibur" or "Merlin" (the mini-series)?
2) I heard somewhere that you'd written an early screenplay for the GARGOYLES theatrical movie, which was basically "Awakenings" cleaned up around the edges, but that it was rejected on account of being "too cartoonish". Would you be able (and willing) to share with us that screenplay?
3) You mentioned that "Hunter's Moon" was originally going to be a video release (which would explain why so much of Part 1 seemed like a reintroduction to the series). If it had been released on video as planned, would it have been longer than only one hour (3 twenty-minute episodes)? I ask because that seems kind of short for a video, and because out of all the other chapters of the series, "Hunter's Moon" is the only one for which you've revealed full-fledged scenes that didn't make it into the final cut.
1. Not telling this now. Had very specific plans though.
2. Michael Reaves and I wrote a pitch and then a treatment (actually two), not a screenplay. And it would be irresponsible to share it at this point, since the movie is still in development at Touchstone Pictures.
3. The decision not to make it a video came before the script (and maybe before the final draft outline) was written. It would have been at least a bit longer... we certainly wouldn't have had to cut the Jason/Elisa clock tower scene. But beyond that, it's too hypothetical a question for me to answer. We never were given the opportunity to explore that avenue in any real way.